Jump to content

Golden Hinde 1578 by Ferrus Manus - FINISHED - Revell - 1/96 - PLASTIC - English Galleon


Recommended Posts

@Louie da fly i saw a video of some tourist handling a Blue Ringed Octopus, and i freaked out. Miracle they weren't bit. I would rather stay far away from any country with spiders bigger than my face. 

 

If i remember correctly, an episode of Peppa Pig was banned in Australia for telling kids not to be afraid of spiders. Because in Australia, a lot of them can kill you.

Edited by Ferrus Manus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have to keep in mind that most of this stuff is tongue in cheek. You have to go to the tropics to see blue-ringed octopi, crocodiles, etc etc. OTOH hunstmen do live in suburbia, and brown and black snakes in some places. But we don't have grizzly bears.

 

Dunno about the Peppa Pig thing. I've never heard of it. Sounds like a furphy (https://furphyfoundry.com.au/the-origins-of-telling-a-furphy/#:~:text=The Oxford Dictionary defines the,that is untrue or absurd )

 

Steven

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today, i made up and mounted the fore and main course yards. You would be surprised how many blocks they require: They each have six as of right now, but they will eventually have either ten our fourteen, depending on whether or not i decide to use buntlines. The leechlines are another three blocks apiece, but none are directly attached to the yard. However, those will come later. I believe leechlines would only be appropriate on the courses, but i do not know whether to add two or four on each, or if they should be installed at all. Any advice would be helpful. However, that comes later on. 

20230210_234019.thumb.jpg.3c00a6b83e027bfabc20072b18997f9f.jpg20230210_234029.thumb.jpg.60834c0aab75ae2a68c490b15cacabe8.jpg

I belayed the lifts through the sheaves on the stanchions and up at the top of the knight:

20230210_234044.thumb.jpg.43cf2804e63393d34892bd9c6314f7bc.jpg

The topsail yard halyards should be interesting, and i intend to use Baker's design for at least the fore halyard. What i do NOT intend to do is what the Revell instructions say. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anderson's book discusses leechlines and buntlines at length; the scarcity of contemporary information led him to decide that there wasn't a definitive answer, particularly for topsails and above.

 

Steven

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This WAS supposed to be a chill-out build, but it quickly evolved (or de-volved) into a mad dash to put as much detail and as complicated of rigging (with the egging of Baker and Louie da Fly, of course), and this is the result of my emerging psychopathy so far: 

20230211_152739.thumb.jpg.498d8ce876a79f209c0c2a82b145ce18.jpg20230211_152757.thumb.jpg.884288a725701f6e9768548f5f70a948.jpg20230211_152749.thumb.jpg.4869665712875f20f9d252f564bfa610.jpg20230211_152713.thumb.jpg.689918b1013843e345c35f2ce036bdf3.jpg20230211_152718.thumb.jpg.4f42ad7e34be369c2347753bb7f7edc0.jpg20230211_152725.thumb.jpg.6e541a34e4a514aba44daf8733828845.jpg

At no point did i ever even consider consulting the Revell instructions for this segment of the rigging. I knew what to do. I gave it the ol' Baker treatment, and vastly complicated the oversimplified rigging. I even went so far as to ignore what HisModel wanted me to do for the lateen peak halyard. The four (as of yet) unused blocks on the lateen will be for running the inhaul lines on the lateen sail, as shown in this diagram:

http://freeshipplans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/santa-maria.png

Note the inhauls on the lateen sail. The blocks on my lateen yard are further apart, but the concept still stands. 

 

This build is absolutely eating up my supply of blocks. They gave me a hundred blocks, and i have used about two thirds of that. And i haven't even started on the sails yet, which will likely be just as many. I will have to dip considerably into my stash of Revell blocks to continue this build. Luckily, i have a considerable amount of single blocks, which is what most of them will be. All in all, there will likely be around 140 blocks in this build, maybe even more. 

Edited by Ferrus Manus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep. Very complex set-up. For some reason (presumably to distribute the strain)  in the late 16th to mid 17th centuries they added loads of crowsfeet etc etc - only to progressively remove them again later.

 

Nice work, mate. BTW, there are various methods to remove the "hairiness" of thread, including rubbing it with wax or (NOT and) holding it near (but not too near)  a flame.

 

Steven

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congrats. 
Very well done.
Your attention to detail and the will to do everything right is highly appreciated.

👍 

greetings Patrick 

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Ferrus Manus said:

This WAS supposed to be a chill-out build, but it quickly evolved (or de-volved) into a mad dash to put as much detail and as complicated of rigging

 

Happens to all of us at some point! 😜

Chris Coyle
Greer, South Carolina

When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
- Tuco

Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the downward spiral continues. I ended up going with my gut and adding buntlines on the spritsail, because i have seen paintings of the massive Dutch galleons (shocker, am i right) vs. the Spanish ships during the Dutch Independence in the early 17th century. Most paintings of the ships show buntline cringles on almost every sail, but no buntlines. I guess they may have taken them off for combat, or something. But, at least in theory, the spritsail, as well as every other square sail, would have carried buntlines. So, i decided to add them onto the spritsail, and i intend to do the same rig on the topsails. The courses will both have four buntlines apiece; they will run up from the sail to a single block on the yard, over the yard, and down to a pin. This is the 16th century, and minor lines would not be standardized until the late 17th. I will reduce the amount of blocks used by foregoing the blocks on the underside of the fighting tops/crosstrees to accept the lines.

20230212_2302232.thumb.jpg.efc1a8b67f007be4c1f85067a2252881.jpg

20230212_230216.thumb.jpg.0c6cf05d6ab53aa33107beb817a5e013.jpgimage(2).thumb.jpg.784e501510318e0e3f082318a27e852f.jpg20230212_230207.thumb.jpg.29ca867e05b45d98f305871077895639.jpg20230212_230245.thumb.jpg.c04aabf207d678e04ff5eb05a5ec3f6f.jpg

I kind of wish i had made the vertical tilt more extreme, but, it still looks good either way. I am choosing to go with the very minor weathering on the sails for the Golden Hinde, as they were only on the first leg of their journey at this point. I just oiled them to a canvas tan shade. The sails would not be filthy and worn at this point, as she was an (almost) brand new ship. 

Edited by Ferrus Manus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, guys, here we go. The pace is ever increasing, like a rocket gaining speed. The stress and pressure is also increasing exponentially. On another note, i can now officially make the claim that my build's rigging is more complex than that of Baker's build, as he did not include buntlines on the topsails. 

20230213_213516.thumb.jpg.06ebcced9077e423d6feb42549b6064a.jpg

20230213_213530.thumb.jpg.05e14bf4ef35be5e321b9ba9564fee1f.jpg

20230213_213538.thumb.jpg.c250a03755ce140e33b1097113ef92b2.jpg

20230213_213544.thumb.jpg.c53fad1625ba1d087126182a80dc1fa6.jpg

I will not do the bowlines or the braces until all other rigging is done on the sails. I learned that the standing parts of the course leechlines actually begin at the crosstrees instead of the topsail yards. This is helpful. The yard broke twice but i reglued it with no issues. This was the most fragile yard, so i am assuming this will not be an issue in the future. I like to work from the top down, because it is easier to run lines down to the deck when another sail (or sails) isn't in the way. 

 

That being said, i am trying to do one sail a day. This seems to work for me, as i am producing a satisfactory model so far. However, it is coming down to nothing going catastrophically wrong. 

 

Don't look away, now! 

 

Edited by Ferrus Manus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coming along nicely, mate. Broken spars are unfortunately part of life's rich tapestry when you make ship models. Fortunately, there's almost nothing that can go wrong that can't be remedied.

 

Steven

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the fore! On the main! set the tops'ls! 

 

Today i did the main topsail, and also i decided to do the bowlines now, instead of waiting. Since this vessel only has 6 sails, i figured i could get away with doing that and not wait. I also intend to do the courses in the same order in which i did the topsails, from fore to aft and not waiting on the bowlines. Doing the braces now instead of later would also likely not be too bad, as there isn't really any inboard work (no staysails, etc). The rigging has gone much faster than i expected it to, even though i am giving the ship much more detail than the plans suggested.

 20230214_181607.thumb.jpg.bf5a20f1d2652a3e54ca5c424dcafa5a.jpg

20230214_181616.thumb.jpg.4cac5d14e09d1ca97b43bb51406160b4.jpg

20230214_181622.thumb.jpg.2811dd0707cdce9a961c0f43418b0431.jpg20230214_181646.thumb.jpg.e73c177302e9f1c28c889b62d146f9f5.jpg20230214_181632.thumb.jpg.15923815898385cec4418145dee944fc.jpg20230214_181626.thumb.jpg.8c2bee265870d7e3ad1352d896cf089b.jpg

I am now almost out of the blocks supplied by the kit. Note, anyone who has built a Revell ship knows that they give you FAR more blocks than they think you'll need, to account for lost or broken blocks. I am beginning to double up rigging lines on the pins, as there are far too many lines to belay one to a pin, even with many lines belaying at the masttop. This is a common Revellism, although i highly doubt they would have done that in real life. Oftentimes I am instructed to (and this is especially true with minor lines) belay two lines to the same pin on a rail. I had to do this quite a bit on my United States build. Although this was most likely never done, it must be done for the sake of detail. The lines belayed two to a pin will at least be the same type of line (i.e. both stbd. bowlines on the fore belayed to one pin, both port buntlines on the main course belayed to a pin, etc). I have a considerable surplus of single blocks, so at least i won't have to cheap out on those. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That means a lot to me, Steven. I never thought i would do anything like this. I wanted to challenge myself and hold myself to the best standards. I wanted a model that would look proud on my shelf, and be a true-to-life replica of a legendary ship. You certainly have a fan in me, Steven. What build are you working on currently? 

 

In a few minutes, things are going to a WHOLE new level. Get ready... Fore course is set! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Set the fore course! 

 

Obviously, this sail took much more time and effort than the topsails, due to the sheer complexity of the sail. Unfortunately the sail came dented, and the vacuform material developed a memory of that dented position. However, it does not detract much in my opinion. It is believable: maybe the sail is fluttering or something.

 

On a side note, the fore course is the only sail that clearly has a bonnet. I do not know why the main course was molded without one, maybe it did not possess one at all. 

20230215_183716.thumb.jpg.ef929d2f0c50052c7f9b1563234732d4.jpg

 20230215_183750.thumb.jpg.172a9ec55e5a7e348b2c3e327d3be532.jpg

I also developed an ingenious idea, a variation of what Baker did on his Pelican build. What i did for the leechlines on the sail was to temporarily superglue a block to the yard, attach a line from both blocks on the crow's feet through the block glued on the yard, intentionally broke off the loosely glued block, then rigged the halyard. This way, I ensured both sides were perfectly symmetrical, or at least so close that no one would be able to tell the difference.

20230215_183742.thumb.jpg.2d4e482758810c68040864210b7abe33.jpg

What baffles me is why such a complex mechanism would be invented to perform such a simple task. 

One issue i had was that Ye Olde Leechlines interfered with the function of the topping lifts. I did not loop them over the topping lifts because then, when the yard was lowered, the leechlines would REALLY get in the way, rendering the topping lifts unusable. This was not a great solution, but it was the only one i had. 

Experimental archaeology, am i right??

 

I then made up the rest of the sail:

20230215_183815.thumb.jpg.76729b183b7cbc4282a41360ed103b75.jpg20230215_183754.thumb.jpg.8c472464f69918735bad15974ac0f996.jpg20230215_183711.thumb.jpg.9d7b129e11fde62f901b89a0b9eb9e26.jpg20230215_183722.thumb.jpg.193860520a6fc5123ca83056eea1d5cc.jpg

Now we're talking. This was the incredible detail i was looking forward to in this build. I am really quite impressed with my execution of the crow's feet and leechlines. I could do the braces for the foremast now, but i would like to save that for its own post. All i have yet to do is the main course, the mizzen lateen, and the finishing touches (anchors, flags, painting the stand) 

 

Leave a comment, swoon over the fore course, you guys know what to do 😉

Edited by Ferrus Manus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see you've already worked out that my current build is a restoration of my Great Harry from over 50 years ago - currently everything's on hold because my workspace is occupied by a relative who has moved down here from Queensland and is living with us till he moves into the new house. He's supposed to move out today (I hope!).

 

Regarding the complexity of the rigging - crowsfeet on the leechlines etc - my only conclusion is that it must have been to distribute the forces more evenly or make it easier to pull the sail in when furling. It did last for quite a long time, so they must have seen some value in it.

 

Shame about the dent in the sail, but if you're ok with it that's really all that matters. And yes, sails do flutter in the wind - though I think the botisman* might have got in trouble with the captain over it.

 

And you might be interested in this link - nautical terminology in the sixteenth century from a contemporary source - 

 

Steven

 

*  (= boat man - the old word for boatswain).

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doubt it. Drake chose men he personally knew and held in high esteem as his crewmen, experts in all crafts related to seamanship. A flutter in the wind would be no bother.

 

Keep in mind that my camera accentuates every little flaw in my work. The dent looks much less egriegous in real life.

Edited by Ferrus Manus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason for the crow's feet could be that the "true" cringle would not be invented until later. This would require the lines to evenly distribute the strain until more modern methods of attaching ropes to sails could be achieved. 

 

Also, depending on the speed and direction of the wind, the fore course might not be getting as much wind as the main. This could explain the flutter. 

 

This is the Golden Hinde under sail. Notice how they really cheaped out on rigging elements, such as crow's feet. 

0422joelrogers-com.jpg

I do not know how to repair a vacuform sail dent, as most expert model shipwrights don't even give kit-supplied sails a second thought. I guess the sail will just have a permanent "flutter". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today, i did the main course. It looks a little thin due to its lack of a bonnet, however, this makes sense considering its current tack. The lack of a bonnet would allow more air to reach the fore course, giving the vessel better propulsion. 

image(3).thumb.jpg.98b96bafd403063af776b8fc4ab73b81.jpg20230216_225510.thumb.jpg.39383c70acef5e0c42da708f9cf16e11.jpg20230216_225504.thumb.jpg.7591c901301893fb8ea40c904293867d.jpgimage(4).thumb.jpg.e3128e91449452da1d14804f653fd707.jpgimage(5).thumb.jpg.1bfd5f43cfbd784a191f11e360b1d496.jpg20230216_225456.thumb.jpg.93db2cca266e4534fb03bc0ee2ab10b7.jpg

Man, Revell gave me some TERRIBLE thread. They literally told me i was on my own to find "household thread" for the standing rigging. The white large diameter thread is the only one they gave me. They almost expect you to have your own rigging thread. Luckily i do, because the model would look horrific with just that white thread. Horribly overscale for all but the largest diameter lines. 

 

 

The mainsail has a very small amount of denting at the center, but withheld its shape rather well. I was worried i would have another fluttering foresail. In the near-contemporary artworks i studied, the crews of galleons let the ship's sails (and especially the courses) billow out to a ridiculous amount, sometimes even lowering the yard to facilitate this. I attempted to recreate this by rigging the tacks and bowlines first, making them pull the sail up and out. 

 

All that is left to do is the lateen sail at the mizzen, the flags, anchors, and whatever else i forgot. In fact, when i do eventually finish the model, i might even put images of the finished product in my gallery. 

Edited by Ferrus Manus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You probably expected me to do the lateen sail today. And, well, you'd be right. I rigged the clewlines (?) and the leechlines all in one line, just like is shown in many diagrams of ships around the same time. What i did not do is rig a set of crow's feet up to the mast, as other diagrams show. It's really one or the other. It seems as though this was around the time they began doing away with the aft spar to hold the lateen sheet line, instead moving the mizzen further forward and allowing the sheet to belay to the aft bulkhead. 

20230217_203159.thumb.jpg.8f8fa9e6c558c7733f7a8949e147de93.jpg20230217_203204.thumb.jpg.4021ed47611e427d2e80f19e8035cc1d.jpg20230217_203149.thumb.jpg.8853da256f971dce5a999c5ca02dab63.jpg20230217_203210.thumb.jpg.78bca0b9c6c46f147f284c509f03c258.jpg20230217_203142.thumb.jpg.5267e7401ea6af433d6ecc8de2eefb84.jpg

Everything is beginning to come together. I began reinforcing the notoriously fragile vacuform with plastic glue instead of super glue, because it actually penetrates the plastic instead of simply sitting on top. This drastically reduced the habit of the sail cracking when perforated. My biggest issue with vacuform sails is their habit of cracking to the edge of the sail when perforated, ruining the hole and requiring a repair. Using plastic glue to reinforce allowed me to make the holes closer to the edge of the sail where they would have been (in lieu of a bolt rope) and allowed me to make them bigger, to ease their acceptance of rope. 

 

The large diameter rope they gave me is ridiculously hairy, so i will try Steven's technique of singeing the thread. 

 

Edited by Ferrus Manus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're making very good progress with this, and the lateen rigging looks very fine. 

 

Just be careful with that singeing process. Try it with thread that you don't care about first, so you can make all your mistakes on stuff that doesn't matter. I can't vouch for the technique myself because I haven't tried it - I've just read that it's one method to use (so don't blame me if it's a disaster  :P).

 

Steven

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yesterday, i finished up the braces on the yards. I tried the singeing technique and failed, so i went with plan B and ran the lines through wax to make them smoother. However, since the thread was so hairy, there was only so much i could do. Anyways, aside from that, the installation of the brace lines went fine. On a different note, i will not have to use any more blocks on this build. All that remains is printing and setting the flags, rigging the anchors, and painting the stand. 

20230220_141959.thumb.jpg.45500ab95a9c0f4fbb9e362d14d4a60d.jpg20230220_142038.thumb.jpg.d3c49e5cde31814c66e0cc1da4c802e8.jpg20230220_142009.thumb.jpg.f34cbbcd2d0f193842326e3ec3b6f78a.jpg20230220_142004.thumb.jpg.b683423d1c044b65c9c03792bce62de6.jpg20230220_142024.thumb.jpg.2d14fa8141971127edf4c389dada6dd9.jpg

That is the Golden Hinde nearing completion. If there are any suggestions about additions to the build, now would be the time to let loose. As the build wraps up, i need to know what more could be done before it goes on the shelf. That being said, i do not think there is much more to be done along the avenue of rigging, however, the paintwork could potentially use some last minute touching up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Ferrus Manus said:

All that remains is printing and setting the flags

If you want to print flags. I liked this technique.
you can use the flags in the Excel file, you just have to reduce the size.

 

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Ferrus Manus said:

If there are any suggestions about additions to the build, now would be the time to let loose.

 

Something to think about for the next build, if you do something in a similarly small scale, would be reducing the diameter of some of the rigging lines, such as the mainsail and foresail braces and sheets. If you want to do something on the cheap, have a look at quilting threads. They come in a wide variety of colors and are remarkably fuzz free compared to ordinary sewing thread.

Chris Coyle
Greer, South Carolina

When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
- Tuco

Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Baker said:

If you want to print flags. I liked this technique.

Tissue paper sounds good, but i already have a technique i like to use. I just use regular printer paper. I would like to use your technique, but i doubt tissue paper would survive my caveman motor skills, not to mention the glues i have. Plastic glue is, well, plastic glue, super glue would make the paper tough, unmanageable, and i would only have about 10 seconds to set the flags, and as for my wood glue, it's only applicator is a ruined brush that would simply destroy the delicate paper. 

 

I will try the tissue paper technique, and if it does not work, i will go back to what i know. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now, it is time to discuss how and where flags were flown on English ships. 

This image shows an English carrack, probably the Mary Rose.

 i_005-large.jpg.01854d1261259e58c286910c136617cd.jpg

While this vessel predates the Golden Hinde considerably, we can see the Tudor practice of flying a pennant or streamer from the main truck, as well as another flag. What surprises me is there is no flag on the mizzen. 

The next photo shows the English fireship attack during the Battle of Gravelines against the Spanish Armada. 

Spanish_Armada_fireships.jpg.598c5a01b40f8b8b33188d26395f62f3.jpg

This reinforces the Tudor practice of flying pennants on the main.

The final two images are also part of the Spanish Armada:

NMM_NMMG_BHC0262-001.jpg.c8183d7c631644bea150a16d72a34443.jpgthe-spanish-armada-the-spanish-fleet-under-the-duke-of-medina-sidonia-D98B31.jpg.fc3c341217f81dbbb5b42858ee710bb8.jpg

The second image shows the English galleons surrounding the Spanish crescent formation in the channel. Both photos show many streamers flying from ships on both sides. 

 

All in all, i think the correct formula is a multicolored "decorative" flag on the mizzen, a streamer and royal ensign on the main, and a St George's Cross on the fore. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I promised you an anchor rant, and here it is. 🤬

 

You know how a ship usually has two or four anchors? You know how many anchors Revell decided to give me??

ONE. They decided "ya know what? You, Michael, don't deserve two anchors. Here's ONE."

They thought i wasn't good enough for a full set of anchors. Yeah, laugh it up. I am ABSOLUTELY STEAMED. 

 

And this is how they wanted me to install it:

20230221_1542172.thumb.jpg.6ee01fb735efd4c39340fc562af64d9b.jpg

Anyone remember this being the correct way to install an anchor? ANYONE??

Well, this is something i refused to bend on. I went to the model shop and spent 34 bucks on a set of these little things: 

s-l500.jpg.23f2943412f98ab0e959b3ada6fcf74d.jpg

I decided i didn't just want two anchors. I wanted all four. So, that is what i got. And this is the final result, which i am quite pleased with:

20230221_144900.thumb.jpg.c601fa7733170480b3fb27d208b5d76c.jpg20230221_153724.thumb.jpg.c6ac126fb65346b8506d990b3c1d7da6.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...