margin plank/waterway

[DaveBaxt]

After reading several threads on the above subject, I am still unsure how to proceed. Some modellers are gluing the waterway into position and then joggling the deck planks to fit and using a sharp knife to shape the waterway to suit the planks. Others are not gluing the waterway into position so unsure what would work best. My question is this, can you still start laying planks from the centre of the deck and work outwards or will this cause issues with the thickness of the planks being different thicknesses or will you have the smae problems starting at the waterway and working inwards.  Another question I have is regarding the margin plank/waterway itself and is it easier to shape this from several pieces scarfed together rather than trying to bend a plank edgeways. I appreciate there are different scarfing joints for this purpose but if there  is a less complicated joint than the hook method or is this applicable to 18th centuary. 

              I have thought about doing this for a while now, but each time I get closer to starting  out the the deck planking , I end up just doing the deck planks without an edging plank/waterway.

[Blue Ensign]

Dave, I usually fit the margin plank first, how I form it depends on the severity of the bow curve.

I then plank from the centre outwards and as I reach the margins I cut the joggling into the margin using a fine micro chisel.

The waterway I add  once the decking is complete, and then cut the scuppers into it.

 

At 1:64 scale and smaller I tend to scribe a false scarf joint in the margins.

 

B.E.

[Morgan]

Dave,

 

I assume this is for your Endeavour.  There is no contemporary evidence to suggest that deck planks at this time on the real ships were joggled or otherwise ‘let into’ the waterway or other margin plank.  If you take the original surviving deck planking of Victory (lower gun deck only), Trincomalee or Unicorn their original decks merely butt-up against the waterway.

 

Joggling on real ships came later, and is often a model makers convention.  However, this is your model and if course it is yours to model as you desire.

 

Gary

[Ed Mostowicz]

As I understand the process, the waterway was installed first and attached directly to the deck beams and frames, then came the margin plank and the deck planks last. If the deck planks were joggled, they were worked into the margin plank. IMO, kit manufacturers have you install the waterway on top of the deck planks, without a margin plank, because it's easier. The end result will look fine either way.

 

I find it easier to make up the waterway and margin plank in sections with simple scarph joints rather than one long piece. But a single piece with scribed scarph joints as Blue Ensign suggested is a good alternative.

 

Ed.

[allanyed]

12 hours ago, Morgan said:

 There is no contemporary evidence to suggest that deck planks at this time on the real ships were joggled or otherwise ‘let into’ the waterway or other margin plank.

Hi Gary

You may be correct but Peter Goodwin, author and former keeper and curator of HMS Victory shows in The Construction and Fitting book on page 60 that the margin plank was joggled if the length of the tapered edge was more than twice the width of the plank.   He includes a drawing of same on page 58.  He does not quote a source so I have no idea if he is basing this on contemporary information and/or this era.  By the same token the below contemporary model of Minerva at Preble Hall shows how the planks were shaped at the ends without cutting into the margin plank.  As you say, in this case they butt up against the margin, but they are still interlaced with each other rather than the margin plank, not with a straight tapered edge that comes to a point. This convention is shown on page 172 of TFFM, Volume II as well.

 

Allan

Edited March 26, 2023 by allanyed

[DaveBaxt]

Thanks guys for some great replies which I seemed to have acknowledged . For the record this is not formy Endeavour which is almost complete but for my next adventure the HMS Diana which was launched 1794 so would have both waterway and joggling of planks at that period according to AOTS Diana.Special thanks to Blue Ensign for keeping the explanation simple so I coud understand and this is probably the way I will progress. However until now I was not aware that the waterway and margin plank are a different piece of wood so thank you for that. As my Diana is plank on bulkhead and after reading ``sections on Peter Goodwins book it only confused me and I found it difficult to interpret for POB and having a false deck. I am  assuming that the water would run off the deck into the waterway so would need to be lower than the deck planks, or is it the oppisite and stops sea water going the other way? Thank you once again for your help and patience . I cetrainly need to go over Peter Goodwins explanation again and hopefully the penny drops.

[allanyed]

2 hours ago, DaveBaxt said:

I am  assuming that the water would run off the deck into the waterway so would need to be lower than the deck planks, or is it the oppisite and stops sea water going the other way?

Hi David,

There are scuppers for the water to run out.  The waterways on each deck vary. From The Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture by David Steel

the water ways on the FC of a 38 gun ship is 4" thick and the adjacent plank is 3" oak while the flat of the deck is 3"  Prussian Deal.   The dimensions from the Shipbuilder's Repository 1788 are the same for the forecastle.  By comparison, the upper deck waterway is 5" thick and 11" wide per Steel, (4.5" thick per Shipbuilder's Repository 1788) while the flat of the deck, including the margin is 3" thick.  Steel states that there are four strakes of English oak next to the waterways on a 38, then the balance is Dantzick deal.   

 

Each deck is addressed in The Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture as well as the Shipbuilder's Repository 1788.  While the below are some years later than the Artois class 38s, a couple cross section drawings from RMG are below that might also be of some help.

 

 Hope this little bit of info helps David

 

Allan

[DaveBaxt]

Thank you Allan and as always your input is always a help. Some nice drawings which shows clearly what is going on in that area. Since posting this thread I have since been studying Peter Goodwins book which has some very good pictures of how the waterway is fitted in relation to the margin plank and scupper. I think this has been mentioned perviously by Ed so I thank him kindly. It is interesting what goodwin says about scupper and that are not normally shown on contemporary models due lack of documentation of sizes etc.  Goodwin produces a very interesting read regarding that some  scuppers were made of lead with a leather flap on the outside to prevent the access of  water. Also that waterways were also fitted to help to protect the joints in that area from the ingress of water as well as used to carry water away.

       Perhaps now I will be able to make a better dicision as regards how to produce something which will resemble that of the the Dianas period. Again I would like to thank everyone who has taken their time to post and for their patience.Best bregards Dave