Kit's thread thickness

[modeller_masa]

I have a question about the thickness of threads in a kit.

 

I used CA glue to harden the thread. I would say that this method shows the exact thickness of threads when I see them.

 

Amann Serafil 120

Without CA glue - 0.07mm

 

Amann Serafil 120

With CA glue - 0.14mm (+100%)

 

 

Amann Serafil 30

Before - 0.20mm, After - 0.35mm (+75%)

 

Amann Serafil 10

Before - 0.55mm, After - 0.70mm (+27%)

 

 

As you can see, this method is easier and faster than other measuring methods.

 

During further experiments, I had a question about the appropriate thickness of threads in a kit. According to AL's kit instructions, the supplied threads have a thickness of 0.25mm. When I measured it with digital vernier calipers, it was 0.25mm. After I applied CA glue, it increased to 0.50mm.

 

How do you think about the difference? Unfortunately, this ship (San Francisco) wasn't real, so I have no reference for actual rope. Should kit companies fix their measuring method?

[Cathead]

I'm no expert, but it's logical that adding moisture to a fiber product causes it to swell. And it's likely that different glues/applications would cause the line to react and swell differently, so it's not clear how manufacturers could account for that in a single consistent measurement.

 

In other words, the manufacturer's dry measurement can be accurately measured and standardized, but the wet measurement depends on what the individual modeler does. So if the change concerns you, perhaps the best solution is to account for a certain level of expansion when you purchase line?

[Roger Pellett]

Make yourself a simple thread thickness gage.  This is nothing more than two pieces of dowel of slightly different diameters.  The smaller is glued into a hole in the end of the larger forming a shoulder.  A known dimension is marked along the length of the smaller dowel.

 

To use, wrap your thread around the smaller dowel along the marked off dimension.  Count the number of turns.  Divide the dimension by the number of turns to get the diameter.

 

Roger

[modeller_masa]

@Cathead

It is not only dry, but also clamped. The 0.25mm is the thickness of cords rather than the entire thread. The difference between thread and cord is critical because our eyes recognize the thickness of thread as the volume of ropes in a model. In my opinion, there is a mismatch between the standards of the traditional weaving industry and an actual usage of threads in the model hobby. It is easier to buy "0.25mm threads" than "0.50mm visible thickness threads."  BUT, If I see rigging plans from Ancre, I'm afraid of which thickness threads I should use. 

 

@Roger Pellett

The traditional method is rational, but the CA glue with the digital vernier calipers is a lot faster and more accurate than it, in my opinion. I had minor difficulties with the inch-long rod because cords were compressed when I tied threads too tight. 

 

In my conclusion, this is the best method for choosing appropriate threads based on real ships.

(1) Calculating "visible thickness" from the original ropes - 4 inch thick rope → 1/12 inch threads (1/48 scale)

(2) Finding the same "visible thickness" threads after applying CA glue, PVA glue, Acrylic medium, or shellac.

 

[Roger Pellett]

The gage is better for me because:

 

I avoid CA glue like the plague.

There is no concern about mashing the threads with the caliper

When it comes to rigging I am of the “If it looks right it must be right School”

 

There is actually some justification for the last comment.  Many years ago in the Nautical Research Journal there was an article about rigging by a noted expert modeler.  He commented that based on what the eye perceives slightly under scale rigging provides a more scalelike appearance.  So, I measure within the limits of my gage and then select the closest line that looks right on my model.  

 

Roger

 

 

[modeller_masa]

Thank you Roger, I'll practice and learn the stick method again.

 

I used CA glue because it dries fast and protects cords from mashing. I can use acrylic medium or PVA glue which are slow. It is a reason I'm coming back to stick.  

 

It is good to hear that someone has already considered the same issue; how to read thread thickness on plans. The underscale rigging may imply how he ovecame the issue. 

[Gregory]

This size chart from Syren is a pretty good way to get you in the ball park.

 

https://syrenshipmodelcompany.com/resources/Suren Ultra Scale Rope Size chart.pdf

[allanyed]

1 hour ago, modeller_masa said:

The traditional method is rational, but the CA glue with the digital vernier calipers is a lot faster and more accurate

If speed is your requirement, ship modeling may not be the right hobby choice. 😀   As to more accuracy I do not agree.  I just did some experimenting using a one inch long gage with clean rope and also measured rope with glue once my eyes stopped watering from the fumes.   Clean rope designated .035" had 27  raps -0.037.  Preglued rope measured 0.038"   I also measured rope designated 0.08" and it had 13 wraps (0.077") for clean rope and a piece that had been soaked in glue which measured. 0.085"   

Allan

[OllieS]

Full scale rope approximates to a cylinder much better than thread does.

In a model, I would guess that the difference between different weights of line would be more important than the absolute circumference of them.