Helping hands troubles

[VitusBering]

I'm currently using the QuadHands Workbench and I have to say I hate it.
How this thing gets so highly rated is completely beyond me.

 

The arms have a horrible amount of springback, making it impossible to align parts to be soldered or glued or whatever.
It is very frustrating.

 

To make matters worse, the magnets on the arm bases are quite strong.
You would think this is a good selling point and it would be except that the arm bases have a foot that prevents the arm from moving unless a great force is applied and then the arm moves suddenly past the point it was supposed to.

The only thing good I can say about this mess of a product is that the powder coating on the base is nice.

I've already tossed out the worthless arms and shopped around for a third-party replacement but reviews for those cite the same springback problem.

 

My trusty old ball-jointed solid-arm Helping Hands worked well with a few minor annoyances (like limited distance between claws and having to lock the joints). I would rather have a flexible solution but so far I cannot find a single one that doesn't have the springback problem, according to reviews.

 

Do any of you folks have any experience with these things and can recommend one to me?
 

[robert952]

Not that it helps you, however, the I have two.  Neither one has any spring back on the arms.  

 

One is from Quad Hands (with magnets).  The other I have has the arms bolted from the underside in the corners of the plate.  I got the second one as a gift and do not know which brand it is.  There's no identifier on the second one.  It's likely from KOTTO as I had it on my Amazon wish list. 

 

All the arms on both appear identical, move smoothly and have no spring back (or a very tiny amount).  They hold in position once set. 

 

As I said, I don't have the problem you have.  I would be one who gives this a 5 star rating.  As I say, I know this doesn't help your situation.   

[Bob Cleek]

20 minutes ago, robert952 said:

As I said, I don't have the problem you have.  I would be one who gives this a 5 star rating.  As I say, I know this doesn't help your situation. 

Ditto here. I love mine. Sorry to hear you tossed the arms to yours. I'd have gladly taken them off of your hands. I don't know what would cause these adjustable arms to spring-back. That's definitely not a good thing for such a device. 

[VitusBering]

Thanks for the replies, folks. Maybe I got a borked set. I'll get a third-party set to see how that goes.

 

I retrieved my arms from the bin, they hadn't been collected yet. I'll post a video illustrating the problem to see if I'm being unreasonable. That's entirely possible.

 

[Roger Pellett]

Another maybe not helpful comment.

 

my current project requires extensive soldered brass fabrication, and I don’t find “ helping hands” to be useful.  The concept behind this tool is to suspend two or more parts in three dimensions for soldering or other work.  The problem is that pressure from the soldering iron can easily knock the parts out of alignment.

 

Instead, I prefer a 2-D approach where the parts are secured to a solid backing. This can be wood, plywood, or aluminum.  Parts can be affixed with aluminum wire, tiny coated steel nails, or even masking tape; anything that you have in your shop that solder won’t stick to.  Sometimes I use plywood “springs.”  This is a strip of thin plywood with one end nailed to a thicker piece of plywood.  The end not nailed captures the part.  This system is not quick.  It’s possible to spend 2-3 hours dreaming up and building a clamping system for 1 minute of soldering.

 

Roger

 

[VitusBering]

Here's my problem...

 

[VitusBering]

I think I agree with you Roger. That's almost the idea behind the ball-joint Helping Hands, it is secured against moderate forces when the thumbscrews are tightened.

[robert952]

Ah... I see now.  Here's my video and 'solution'. 

As you can see, if it put a sharp bend to the arm it springs back.  But a more gentle curve stays in place.   Again, I am not sure it answers your question.  But I could at least duplicate your video.  I guess I never really did a sharp bend.  I do note (now that you piqued my curiosity) if I bend the long arms back against a curve - like an S - the spring back is more pronounced.  Again, I guess I never used these much that way.  

Hope this helps. 

 

BTW - a word of thanks.  I have never loaded a vid to YouTube.  I knew from what people said it was not hard.  However, I had just never done it before.  I guess now I can add 'Youtuber' to my CV. 😎

[VitusBering]

Thanks Robert. I do think I'm probably expecting too much of this tool but the problem - sometimes quite minor - is still very frustrating. I'm still on the hunt for a more stable set of arms.

 

Congrats on the YT thing, I also find it quite useful.

[robert952]

After posting, I reread the other entries.  I can see an issue as pointed out that a bit of pressure could shift the 'target'.  I find the 'ball and joint' like this item difficult t o use.  For some reason I can't get the ball joint tight enough to stay in place and have similar problems to what's described. 

Hence I use the 'quad hand' approach.

 

 

[Dr PR]

With anything that is adjustable you have to allow for spring back, backlash, slop - whatever you want to call it. With the quad hands I bend the arms farther than I need and allow them to spring back before I try to position them.

 

I also have a ball joint version as shown above, and it is a pain in the posterior to adjust. The problem is the cheap thumb screw set screws that press directly onto the horizontal bar and the alligator clips. When these are tightened that cut into the metal they press against, deforming it. This puts pits and dents in the metal so the next time you try to tighten the screws the bar/clip rotates so the screw fits into the deformities. After a few uses it becomes very difficult to set the position accurately. And then it isn't very firm so things slip out of place. So you tighten the set screws tighter, and create greater deformities that cause even greater problems later.

 

Neither of these devices hold pieces firmly enough to resist much pressure from a soldering iron tip. It takes a lot of practice and patience to use them. But both can be useful.

[Bob Cleek]

15 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

The concept behind this tool is to suspend two or more parts in three dimensions for soldering or other work.  The problem is that pressure from the soldering iron can easily knock the parts out of alignment.

I can see how it could be difficult to keep small parts in place when pressing them with a soldering iron. I have been using a Tiny Torch for all my soldering for some time and the torch doesn't have to touch the pieces, which is why I didn't have any of the complaints in that regard. 

[Roger Pellett]

Here is an example of a setup for soldering using thin craft plywood to hold parts in place.

 

The problem: When soldering the reinforcing bar spanning the two bollard posts, the soldering iron pushes the bar out of alignment.

 

Solution:  The two longitudinal strips secure the base while the “tongue” backs up the reinforcing bar.  This is a very simple fixture.  Much more elaborate ones can be created.  This is the cheap craft plywood, not the more expensive aircraft quality.  I also have a large supply of 1/2in and 3/8in nails that I inherited from my father who built a fabric covered wooden wing for an EAA group project.  While I don’t use these on my models, I use them all the time for making soldering fixtures.

 

Roger

 

 

 

[VitusBering]

Thank you Roger (I predict no more cold solder joints in my future), and all who have commented and reacted here.

I sincerely apologize for being harsh in my first post, I was venting out of frustration and my words were way too forceful.

 

While I'm still unsatisfied with the flexible arms, I realize this is the state of the art and I will adapt.

I'll shop around nonetheless but I'll continue using this tool and the wonderful techniques suggested by Roger and Robert and of course all of you. Thank you again.

Edited May 22, 2023 by VitusBering

[jhearl]

This third-hand device - GRS® BenchMate® Double Third-Hand Soldering Station - RioGrande is quite expensive but functions beautifully. You do not need to tighten the joints while using it. It also features a soldering block, which is very useful.  For me, it has been worth every penny.

[Roger Pellett]

Also, keep in mind that solder is not good at bridging a gap between two pieces of metal.  It works best if the pieces are lapped tightly together, particularly in conjunction with a low viscosity liquid flux.  Applied with a small model paint brush, this flux seeps into tiny openings between the pieces to be joined.  When the joint is heated solder is drawn in.  

 

Roger