HM Cutter Speedy 1828 by oakheart - from plans drawn by Bill Shoulders in 1972

[oakheart]

After being a bit sidetracked by the Corel Unicorn hull I found at a local flea market, I was still looking for a new project.

I spend Tuesdays mornings at my model club, HSME ( Hereford Society of Model Engineers )

After searching in the clubs library (the clubhouse loft)  I discover we have a large collection of Model Shipwright magazines and the quarterly books dating back to 1972. After much rummaging,  I find some plans and articles by Bill Shoulders for the cutter "Speedy 1828".

I was very impressed by Thunders build log on the old kit he found that happens to be based on these articles.

 

So HMS Speedy 1828, looks like it will be my new project, small, simple and should make a nice model.

 

So its over to RMG to get the original draughts that Bill used to develop his plans. Lets hope there is a high resolution version on Wiki as well

Then I need to scan and scale the drawings, I think I will stick to 1:48 for this build, my Bounty's launch was very fiddly to learn on.

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

18 minutes ago, oakheart said:

Lets hope there is a high resolution version on Wiki as well

Sorry Tim, Speedy (1928) is based on Lapwing (1916) and believe me, there are no hires plans.  Edit: I forgot about the Danish drawings found by Bruce_d (post #11 below)

 

Revisit my Lapwing thread for clues: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23486-lapwing-1816-revenue-cutter/

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by iMustBeCrazy

[oakheart]

48 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Revisit my Lapwing thread for clues: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23486-lapwing-1816-revenue-cutter/

 

Hi Craig

This really is a small world, I had completely forgotten about your Lapwing, heading over there right now....

 

Tim

[oakheart]

I now have a complete set of drawings scaled and corrected.

As Thunder commented in his Speedy build the bulkheads needed quite a bit of adjusting to get correct.

 

So tomorrow I will print out the keel and bulkheads, paste them to some plywood and make some sawdust.

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

3 hours ago, oakheart said:

I now have a complete set of drawings scaled and corrected.

Are you sure? I've been asleep but looking this morning there are some discrepancies between drawings. And it doesn't help that there are 10 stations and 9 moulds.

The 1st drawing below has a scale to which I have corrected but the aspect ratio is wrong (only just noticed that) station 6 should be 10'11" ( half of 21'10" ).

I traced the sternpost, keel and stem and copied it to the other drawing which has been scaled to Mould 'E' which should be 21'10" (twice station 6) and the length doesn't match. So there is possibly something wrong with the scaling of individual sections. Maybe?

 

 

Or maybe I'm still asleep having a nightmare?

 

See post #7.

Edited June 22, 2023 by iMustBeCrazy

[bruce d]

Hi Tim, this is the last from the Danish Archive attributed to Lapwing:

 

 

 

 

HTH,

Bruce

[iMustBeCrazy]

Definitely a nightmare. 2 sets of plans, 2 draftsmen. Sheet 1 and 2 are a pair but the one showing the moulds is different.

 

The book of building the model gives the answer, despite the name on the box and book It's not Speedy!

Page 31 of the book gives references and says "The original Admiralty draught of the naval cutter that the 'Speedy' model was based on" and shows a drawing.

 

Except it's not! The drawing shown is ZAZ6373 which is the drawing 'Skylark' was to be built from along with 'Swift', 'Bramble' and 'Diligence'.

 

I believe these were cancelled and the names 'Skylark', 'Swift', 'Bramble' and 'Diligence' and 'Speedy' were later given to vessels built on the lines of the 'Lapwing', hence the confusion.

 

So the model is of the proposed 'Skylark' perhaps with some alterations taken from 'Lapwing/Speedy' drawings. Lots of room for confusion.

 

So I confess I was wrong, it's ZAZ6425 which is Lapwing and therefore Speedy.. Tooooo many drawings.

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by iMustBeCrazy
Because I'm wrong :)

[Jaager]

It may be wise to drop back 10 and punt again.

 

Consider:

ZAZ6345  ---  the full size print is L 31 and available

the NMM  JPEGs for the details  are large enough to get what is needed:

ZAZ6344     ZAZ6348     ZAZ6349

 

A Vigilant lookup will get a print of a painting with rigging details.

 

Scratch is difficult enough without starting with ambiguous plans.

[iMustBeCrazy]

14 minutes ago, Jaager said:

Scratch is difficult enough without starting with ambiguous plans.

True, but the plans Tim has will build him a cutter, just not Speedy. For me, my great grandfather sailed out here on Lapwing so I'm more inclined to build her and get her right, unfortunately.

[oakheart]

Thank you Craig, Jaager and Bruce.

While I was asleep dreaming peacefully about the sweet little cutter I was going to start building today, you lot have been living a nightmare.....

I am deeply impressed with all of your research skills, I will need all of that kind of information when I get back to my other cutter "Rattlesnake"

the plans for which are still being developed.

 

Craig is right, I the plans that I have 'corrected and scaled' are adequate to build a cutter, it will really be a generic cutter of the period.

For this build I would really like to develop my planking skills and end up with a nice looking hull in wood, it will not be rigged.

 

A note on what I meant by scaled and corrected.

I imported the RMG drawing and made sure it was at 1:48 scale.
Then I imported the other plans into that master drawing and scaled then to 'match' the RMG draught.

The bulkheads are really badly distorted and needed a lot of work to get right.

The 'lower deck' part that locks the bulkheads together was also not symmetrical. 

 

So today I will cut out some parts and see how they fit together.

 

It should only take a couple of hours, so let's meet back here for tea. ( or grog )

 

Tim

 

 

 

 

[oakheart]

5 hours ago, Jaager said:

 

Scratch is difficult enough without starting with ambiguous plans.

 

Hi Jaager

Thanks for all of that information, it will be / is really helpful.

As I said before, I am really impressed with your  research skills.

Although the actual ship may be ambiguous, I think this could make a nice little cutter model.

 

 I have to warn you that this is going to be a simple PoB build so don't fall back to sleep 🙂

 

Tim

 

 

[oakheart]

Just heading off to the workshop.

 

Here are a couple of the drawings I have been working with, lets see what we get

 

This shows the original bulkheads directly off the booklet plans

 

Tim

 

Here are my corrected bulkheads overlaid on Bill Shoulders original 1972 drawing. I also cleaned up the scan of Bills drawing.

 

Now ( after I have cut the lawn ) to make some sawdust.

 

Tim

[bruce d]

Hello again Tim, I was about to offer sympathy and suggest an aspirin sandwich but it looks like you are on top of it.

However, I still have one comment. If, and I will not try to guess, if the bulkheads you have ended up with reconcile with the original plans of Lapwing, then you have the ability to add more bulkheads easily. The Danish plans are hi-res and G5757 has around 17 or 18 stations. 

Ignore if I am telling Granny about eggs.

 

Bruce

Edited June 22, 2023 by bruce d

[iMustBeCrazy]

Here's one I made earlier

 

[oakheart]

16 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Here's one I made earlier

 

Oh Craig, I should have guessed as usual you are one step ahead of me..........

I will crack on and see if I can keep pace.

 

Question. Are those bulkheads directly from the booklet plans?

 

Tim

[oakheart]

1 hour ago, bruce d said:

The Danish plans are hi-res and G5757

Hi Bruce

Thanks for thinking of me.

Where can I get hold of the Danish hi res version of the plans?

Anything that will help my build is good.

 

Tim

[bruce d]

Here you go, use the 'SAVE' icon in the top right group above the image and it opens in a new tab. All plans are accessible from the column to the left.

 

Arkivalieronline (sa.dk)

 

HTH,

Bruce 

EDIT: I should have said also that there are only four plans there for Lapwing. G5757 - 5760.

Edited June 22, 2023 by bruce d

[oakheart]

14 minutes ago, bruce d said:

All plans are accessible

Hi Bruce

Thanks for the link, the drawings will be useful for the detail.

What an amazing resource, how on earth do you find specific ships?

 

Tim

 

 

[bruce d]

Arkivalieronline (sa.dk)

 

Have fun!

[iMustBeCrazy]

9 hours ago, oakheart said:

Oh Craig, I should have guessed as usual you are one step ahead of me..........

Umm. Earlier was 2018, before I found this forum. First ever 'build' and I wasn't happy with what I was doing and with the family connection I wanted to show more of the interior. The moulds/bulkheads were corrected.

Which lead to something more like Bruce is suggesting:

But I still wasn't happy, so I bought a Bounty Launch kit and found this forum and started learning.

But I still wasn't happy, so I designed and built my small Cutter and learned a lot.

I was quite happy with that so I designed and am building my Bounty Launch (and 'Kitty').

Which brings us up to date.

[iMustBeCrazy]

3 hours ago, bruce d said:

Have fun!

Months and months of fun at a guess!

 

But for some of us your hard work (actually 'Diligence' seems more appropriate ) paid off. Thank you again.

 

Lapwing (1816)
Kite
Fancy (1817)
Racer
Sprightly

Nightingale (1825)
Speedy (1828)
Snipe (1828)

Vigilant (1821)
Swift (1821)
Basilisk (1822)
Bramble (1822)
Skylark
Diligence

[oakheart]

12 hours ago, bruce d said:

Arkivalieronline (sa.dk)

 

Have fun!

Fun ! I think I may need that Aspirin now..........

Just spent a good ten mins looking for a way to search for a specific name?

Any clues?

I was looking for more detail on the cutter Rattlesnake ( I already have the profile and lines that Craig sent me the link too )

 

Tim

[oakheart]

9 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

so I designed and built my small Cutter and learned a lot.

I was quite happy with that so I designed and am building my Bounty Launch

 

And your Bounty Launch is fantastic, I have just been over there to have another look.

So patience and hard work pays off.

 

For me, I definitely see this small cutter build a step in the right direction.

I am already having new ideas on how the Rattlesnake might be constructed for a PoB model.

Taking ideas from Bill Shoulders original model and mixing it up with modern ideas.

 

Tim

[bruce d]

3 hours ago, oakheart said:

... a way to search for a specific name?

Using the link in post #19 above, this database is the alphabetical list of subjects so look at the vertical menu on the left; RATTLESNAKE will be in the set ‘No.77 – Sea’.  

[iMustBeCrazy]

17 minutes ago, bruce d said:

Using the link in post #19 above, this database is the alphabetical list of subjects so look at the vertical menu on the left; RATTLESNAKE will be in the set ‘No.77 – Sea’.  

And you should find the 'card' for Rattle Snake at No 116. On it in the lower left you will see the reference 'F 18'. As there is only one reference there is only one drawing.

 

To access the drawing open the link Bruce provided in post #17 and search in the left column for F 18. You should find a F14-F31, click on the plus symbol, nothing but numbers, number 1 is F14, 2 is the back of F14 etc etc (most of the time) 9 is F 18.

 

It's a real pity that they made this wonderful resource so hard to navigate.

 

Anyway, have fun.

[oakheart]

Yesterday in the workshop I managed to get quite a lot done.

Pasted the paper templates onto the plywood.

 

then made some sawdust

 

 

here are the bulkheads and the 'deck' which holds the whole thing together.

 

I then glued the rabbet strip on the keel using some 1mm limewood.

 

 

I will leave that to dry overnight , then cover the plywood edge grain as well.

 

A good days work

 

Tim

 

 

 

 

[oakheart]

Just a couple of small jobs to keep the build moving along.

 

Glued on a strip of limewood to cover the raw plywood edge.

 

then added a layer of limewood to the stern. In my next build I really want to make a solid wood stem, keel and stern post.
but for this simple cutter model that I am using to get some practice at planking, this will do.

 

 

 

Tomorrow I will cut a rabbet.

 

Tim

[oakheart]

Found some time time to cut the rabbet

 

and then trying the keel in place.

 

 

stem

 

and stern post

 

its beginning to take shape

 

Tim

[oakheart]

Thanks to everyone for the likes.

 

Tim

[oakheart]

I cut the parts for the transom, but the parts on the plans do match those in the booklet or on Thunders log.

They will need to be sanded down to match more closely.

 

 

the top part is too wide !

 

here is the version from Thunder's kit build

 

see 

 

 

 

Tim

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by oakheart