tmj Posted November 4, 2023 Share #1 Posted November 4, 2023 Were 'horseshoe' plates, on early American warships, bolted to the exterior of the lower stem timbers, or possibly 'inlayed' flush to the outside of those timbers to keep things streamlined in the water? thibaultron 1 Quote "The journey of a thousand miles is only a beginning!" Current Build; Corel HMS Victory Cross Section kit "BASH", "Active build!" On the Drawing Board; 1777 Continental Frigate 'Hancock', Scratch Build, Admiralty/Pseudo Hahn Style, "In work, active in CAD design stage!" In dry dock; Scratch Build of USS Constitution... on hold until further notice, if any. Constructro 'Cutty Sark' ... Hull completed, awaiting historically accurate modifications to the deck, deck houses, etc., "Gathering Dust!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted November 4, 2023 Share #2 Posted November 4, 2023 The "search" thingy is our friend! See: mtaylor, tmj and thibaultron 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted November 4, 2023 Author Share #3 Posted November 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said: The "search" thingy is our friend! Sorry Bob. I sometimes use the search box, but most times I do not. I've grown accustomed to finding everything under the sun 'except' for what I'm truly looking for when I use the forum's search option. It's usually easier and faster to ask a question and get a response like this. 🙂 mtaylor 1 Quote "The journey of a thousand miles is only a beginning!" Current Build; Corel HMS Victory Cross Section kit "BASH", "Active build!" On the Drawing Board; 1777 Continental Frigate 'Hancock', Scratch Build, Admiralty/Pseudo Hahn Style, "In work, active in CAD design stage!" In dry dock; Scratch Build of USS Constitution... on hold until further notice, if any. Constructro 'Cutty Sark' ... Hull completed, awaiting historically accurate modifications to the deck, deck houses, etc., "Gathering Dust!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted November 4, 2023 Share #4 Posted November 4, 2023 51 minutes ago, tmj said: Sorry Bob. I sometimes use the search box, but most times I do not. I've grown accustomed to finding everything under the sun 'except' for what I'm truly looking for when I use the forum's search option. It's usually easier and faster to ask a question and get a response like this. 🙂 No need for apologies. I find the same frustration with the search engine myself. (Sometimes opening up another window and "googling" a topic is actually an easier way to find it in the MSW forum!) In this instance, "horseshoe" was an easy one to search. Google would have yielded twenty-six "sponsored" advertisements for horseshoes and local farriers, I'm sure! What I'd like to know about these "horseshoes" used to reinforce scarf joints is why they were horseshoe-shaped. It seems to my "armchair shipwright's" mind that a squared flat plate would serve as well and be a lot easier to fabricate and install. I wonder if the shipsmiths actually just hammered flat old worn-out horseshoes to fashion these and didn't bother to take the time to forge straight, flat stock. Some of the horseshoe-shaped reinforcing plates are quite large, but draft horse hooves are quite large and there were a lot more draft horses around in those days than now. It just doesn't seem like the shape has anything to do with the strength of the fitting. mtaylor and tmj 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted November 4, 2023 Author Share #5 Posted November 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bob Cleek said: No need for apologies. I find the same frustration with the search engine myself. (Sometimes opening up another window and "googling" a topic is actually an easier way to find it in the MSW forum!) In this instance, "horseshoe" was an easy one to search. Google would have yielded twenty-six "sponsored" advertisements for horseshoes and local farriers, I'm sure! What I'd like to know about these "horseshoes" used to reinforce scarf joints is why they were horseshoe-shaped. It seems to my "armchair shipwright's" mind that a squared flat plate would serve as well and be a lot easier to fabricate and install. I wonder if the shipsmiths actually just hammered flat old worn-out horseshoes to fashion these and didn't bother to take the time to forge straight, flat stock. Some of the horseshoe-shaped reinforcing plates are quite large, but draft horse hooves are quite large and there were a lot more draft horses around in those days than now. It just doesn't seem like the shape has anything to do with the strength of the fitting. I agree with the shape thing, but not so sure about the size. When looking at the construction methods of the 'Essex', I'd say that the horseshoe shaped 'plate' was quite large... larger than any horse hoof. Yes, I'm curious too. I don't understand the shape. There would definitely be far better plate designs than that! Maybe the old-world builders were just superstitious and simply wanted the inverted horseshoe shape to trap and hold good luck! 🙃 As for the size? The below image is of the 'Essex's' stem, stern and keel. I'm using the Essex to model the construction methods of the 'Hancock'. If the resource I'm using is correct (32 Gun Frigate 'Essex', anatomy of the ship, by Portiat Takakjian) that horseshoe would fit a horse of 'mythical' proportions! Hopefully, someone with more knowledge will be able to chime in and clear up some of the odd-looking details and curious questions. I'll certainly be interested in this as my Hancock build will only be planked from the waterline up. All construction details 'below' the waterline will be exposed. Edited November 4, 2023 by tmj mtaylor and Bob Cleek 2 Quote "The journey of a thousand miles is only a beginning!" Current Build; Corel HMS Victory Cross Section kit "BASH", "Active build!" On the Drawing Board; 1777 Continental Frigate 'Hancock', Scratch Build, Admiralty/Pseudo Hahn Style, "In work, active in CAD design stage!" In dry dock; Scratch Build of USS Constitution... on hold until further notice, if any. Constructro 'Cutty Sark' ... Hull completed, awaiting historically accurate modifications to the deck, deck houses, etc., "Gathering Dust!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearshore Posted November 10, 2023 Share #6 Posted November 10, 2023 I'm pretty sure the shape has something to do with they didn't have welders back then. It would have been easier to bend a peice of flat stock then to forge separate peices together. Just my opinion on the reasoning behind the shape. Nearshore druxey, Rik Thistle, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr PR Posted November 11, 2023 Share #7 Posted November 11, 2023 When did these horseshoe plates come into use? mtaylor 1 Quote Phil Current build: https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/19611-albatros-by-dr-pr-mantua-scale-140-about-1815/&tab=comments#comment-601276 Previous build: https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/19321-uss-oklahoma-city-clg-5-1971-3d-cad-model/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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