David Chapman Posted April 19 Author Share #61 Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Scottish Guy said: I´m not funny here but for that money I can buy a Hallberg Rassy 44 and can sail around the world whenever I want to wherever I want. I would not even have to share my space with strangers but with friends (up to 4)... Micha Gotta luv That! Scottish Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin-the-lubber Posted April 19 Share #62 Posted April 19 We’ve done a three cruises in the last few years, personally I think there’s a fine line between it being a glorified passenger ferry and a floating hotel. The last one (Norwegian fjords) was very much towards the ferry end of the spectrum and I doubt we’ll do another any time soon. Here in the UK there’s a much more affordable way of living onboard and seeing new places - canal boats! You’re making great progress David, I’d again say just plough ahead and use this as a fun starter. For the future, I can 100% confirm that bigger is better. I finished making some carronades yesterday, printed them and thought how fantastic they’ll look on my 1/100 victory, until I realised I’d forgotten to scale down from 1/48. But who has space for a 6 foot model! I think the sweet spot is about 3 feet long and the largest scale possible against that final length. Keith Black 1 Quote Current builds: 1) HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23247-hms-victory-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic-with-3d-printed-additions/ 2) Bluenose II 1:100 (Billing) - paused, not in the mood https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30694-billing-bluenose-ii-1100-no600-by-kevin-the-lubber/ 3) Cutty Sark 1:96 Revell https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30964-cutty-sark-by-kevin-the-lubber-revell-196 Stash: Revell Cutty Sark 1/96 (a spare for later) Revell Beagle 1/96 (unlikely to ever get built!) Revell Kearsage 1/96 (can't wait to get started on this) Revell Constitution 1/96 If at first you don't succeed, buy some more tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapman Posted April 20 Author Share #63 Posted April 20 Kevin, I prefer Cruise Ship. We love Viking. No casinos, age restricted, free excursions at every port, amazing design and service. And no, I get no kickbacks... Ha! B-Ram, Scottish Guy and Keith Black 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hof00 Posted April 20 Share #64 Posted April 20 (edited) On 4/19/2024 at 1:59 AM, Scottish Guy said: I have the same picture of her Johnny, but I´m still not keen on the plastic model. I´m still more interested in the wooden version (even if I don´t know which manufactuer I should chose since there are four of them). But I still have this offer for GBP 60.00 for the Revell kit 1:96 and it still is in my mind, with some extra effort to "pimp" it up it might be a nice alternative to the wooden versions. Which wooden version would you guys suggest anyway? Billing Boats (BB564 Cutty Sark 1869) in 1:75 Artesania Latina (Tea Clipper Cutty Sark 1869) in 1:84 Mantua (612 Le Picolle) in 1:100 Sergal (789 Cutty Sark 1869) in 1:78 Sergal (791 Thermopylae 1906) in 1:124 My favorite size would be the Billing Boats (but the quality of this set is my convern since the Roar Ege) but by the look and quality the Sergal or the AL looks good as well. I prefer larger sized models, don´t know why but the small sizes like 1:124 or even smaller like 1:220 are not my thing. Micha Hi Chap, Just "Chiming in" here.... From experience, I'd go with #$ followed by #2 My effort with the Sergal/Mantua is on this site. (Search Cutty Sark by HOF00) I have #2 in storage. I think that the Sergal/Mantua version goes together very nicely, and the scale makes things a little easier. (Granted, the size is something to be considered.) Cheers....HOF. Edited April 20 by hof00 Keith Black 1 Quote Completed Builds: A/L Bluenose II A/L Mare Nostrum Sergal/Mantua Cutty Sark A/L Pen Duick A/L Fulgaro Amati/Partworks 1/200 Bismarck A/L Sanson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 20 Share #65 Posted April 20 4 hours ago, David Chapman said: I prefer Cruise Ship. We love Viking. No casinos, age restricted, free excursions at every port, amazing design and service. I prefer much more the own little sail yacht, free choice of stopping points (harbours), free excursions and landing parties, much smaller, no crowded decks or restaurants and I get to eat what I want and not have to chose of something I might not like (and I love cooking)... but that´s just my personal choice. I love the freedom to go where ever I want with the sail boat and that it is much more private, even if you travel with friends (as guests / crew)... Micha Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin-the-lubber Posted April 20 Share #66 Posted April 20 9 hours ago, David Chapman said: We love Viking. No casinos, age restricted, free excursions at every port, amazing design and service. That's very appealing but a fair bit more expensive. I guess you get what you pay for. However I fear it'll take something to persuade the admiral to sail again any time soon, more my thing that hers. David Chapman 1 Quote Current builds: 1) HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23247-hms-victory-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic-with-3d-printed-additions/ 2) Bluenose II 1:100 (Billing) - paused, not in the mood https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30694-billing-bluenose-ii-1100-no600-by-kevin-the-lubber/ 3) Cutty Sark 1:96 Revell https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30964-cutty-sark-by-kevin-the-lubber-revell-196 Stash: Revell Cutty Sark 1/96 (a spare for later) Revell Beagle 1/96 (unlikely to ever get built!) Revell Kearsage 1/96 (can't wait to get started on this) Revell Constitution 1/96 If at first you don't succeed, buy some more tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 20 Share #67 Posted April 20 (edited) Since we are talking about the Cutty Sark and even a Revell model I was wondering what people think about the Revell H-364:995 (1959) kit. I got an offer to buy a kit of this one (close to the price a 2017 model 0542 would cost. The seller says the box is lightly damaged but the content is complete, only one bag had to be rebagged since it was opened. Some parts are already out of the sprue but he´s certain that nothing is missing. I´m in the mood to like that kit somehow, more than the 2017 model (don´t ask me why). As far as I know it should be also the scale of 1:96 but not sure. I also don´t know about the accuracy of the kit and about the moulds, if the newer ones are more appreciated than the older ones? I mean, the kit is 65 yrs old (almost 9 yrs older than me). What is your opinion about the kit or should I avoid it of all cost? Edited April 20 by Scottish Guy Keith Black 1 Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkre88 Posted April 20 Share #68 Posted April 20 From what I understand, the newer kits are molded in the same kits as the oldies. I have read elsewhere that this is a problem because the molds are not in the best shape any more and you will run into more flash and other issues on the newer kits. Keith Black 1 Quote "Use the right word, not its second cousin." - Mark Twain Current build: Academy Cutty Sark 1:150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 20 Share #69 Posted April 20 11 minutes ago, rkre88 said: From what I understand, the newer kits are molded in the same kits as the oldies. I have read elsewhere that this is a problem because the molds are not in the best shape any more and you will run into more flash and other issues on the newer kits. So in other words, getting my hands on the 1959 kit might be agood choice? Micha Keith Black 1 Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted April 20 Share #70 Posted April 20 52 minutes ago, Scottish Guy said: So in other words, getting my hands on the 1959 kit might be agood choice? Not necessarily, Micha. Plastic gets brittle with age according to modelers building plastic kits. . I have never put together a plastic model so I'm relating only what I've read in logs. Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 20 Share #71 Posted April 20 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Keith Black said: Not necessarily, Micha. Plastic gets brittle with age according to modelers building plastic kits. . I have never put together a plastic model so I'm relating only what I've read in logs. I heard about that Keith, even if I never had any issues with plastic models (but have to admit, none of mine was 65 yrs old). In the pictures it looks quiet well and when I believe the seller it has been stored in the closed box on a dry attic, so nothing that could have harmed the plastic except the age itself and the age deteriation of the meterial. Still want the model kit somehow, don´t know why... it looks more interesting than the newer ones. The only thing that holds me back is the price, it is almost the price of a new kit. Micha Edited April 20 by Scottish Guy Keith Black 1 Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted April 20 Share #72 Posted April 20 1 hour ago, Scottish Guy said: closed box on a dry attic Attic is the key word here. Attics are normally hot to very hot in the summer months. It might be great and then it might not. I'd be most worried about the mast, tops, and yards but those could all be made of wood which we covered in David's build. Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 20 Share #73 Posted April 20 1 minute ago, Keith Black said: Attic is the key word here. Attics are normally hot to very hot in the summer months. It might be great and then it might not. I'd be most worried about the mast, tops, and yards but those could all be made of wood which we covered in David's build. That is what I was thinking of, refitting it with wooden masts stuff, most likely it`s the hull, even the decking I would replace with a wooden one though. Batteling myself here lol, should I or should I not... Micha Keith Black 1 Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted April 20 Share #74 Posted April 20 It's only money and small money at that. Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapman Posted April 20 Author Share #75 Posted April 20 8 hours ago, Scottish Guy said: I prefer much more the own little sail yacht, free choice of stopping points (harbours), free excursions and landing parties, much smaller, no crowded decks or restaurants and I get to eat what I want and not have to chose of something I might not like (and I love cooking)... but that´s just my personal choice. I love the freedom to go where ever I want with the sail boat and that it is much more private, even if you travel with friends (as guests / crew)... Micha I get it Micha, We used to live on a boat in Gig Harbor, Washington. A classic 1959 42' Chriscraft Constellation. Finally moved back ashore when we had ice cycles inside the boat! Those were the days. Keith Black and Scottish Guy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 20 Share #76 Posted April 20 11 minutes ago, David Chapman said: Finally moved back ashore when we had ice cycles inside the boat! What shall I say David, that´s unfortunate, I would have insulated the boat and would have stayed on it even if I have to say... WA can become pretty cold in winter. But I love living on a boat and I wish I could afford it nowadays but my job doesn´t allow living on a boat but who knows, retirement maybe will be the time to go back onto a sail boat. 14 minutes ago, David Chapman said: A classic 1959 42' Chriscraft Constellation. Quiet a nice boat, I prefer sail boats over motor boats but both have their advantages and disadvantages. A nice size to live on it. 18 minutes ago, David Chapman said: We used to live on a boat in Gig Harbor Never have been there but what I can see (Google Maps and Google Earth) a nice place to live. Close enough to Seattle but far enough tho have this charme of a small town. I love small towns and villages (that´s why I live in a small fishing village). Micha David Chapman and Keith Black 2 Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapman Posted April 20 Author Share #77 Posted April 20 11 minutes ago, Scottish Guy said: What shall I say David, that´s unfortunate, I would have insulated the boat and would have stayed on it even if I have to say... WA can become pretty cold in winter. But I love living on a boat and I wish I could afford it nowadays but my job doesn´t allow living on a boat but who knows, retirement maybe will be the time to go back onto a sail boat. Quiet a nice boat, I prefer sail boats over motor boats but both have their advantages and disadvantages. A nice size to live on it. Never have been there but what I can see (Google Maps and Google Earth) a nice place to live. Close enough to Seattle but far enough tho have this charme of a small town. I love small towns and villages (that´s why I live in a small fishing village). Micha Yes, it can get cold. At the time we were literally frozen into the Saltwater harbor. Scottish Guy and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapman Posted April 20 Author Share #78 Posted April 20 Back on topic. Struggling with what to do about the sails. As you know, despite encouragement, I have been true to the stock Revell to date. My gut says to stick with that approach to the end. But others have suggested to reconsider that. My bride (of 49 years) is a bonified craftsman. She thought using the plastic sails as a form and cover them in in starch soaked cloth and trim them to fit might work. We plan to try a sample of that... but I'm still reluctant. Scottish Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 20 Share #79 Posted April 20 31 minutes ago, David Chapman said: My bride (of 49 years) is a bonified craftsman. She thought using the plastic sails as a form and cover them in in starch soaked cloth and trim them to fit might work. Hi David, that is something I would have considered from the beginning for the Cutty Sark, I think the plastic sails look ridiculous, even if you would paint them properly with weathering and aging, they still look odd. Don´t be reluctant, listen to your wifey (they often are right even if we don´t like it ^^)... Micha Keith Black 1 Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkre88 Posted April 20 Share #80 Posted April 20 6 hours ago, Scottish Guy said: I heard about that Keith, even if I never had any issues with plastic models (but have to admit, none of mine was 65 yrs old). In the pictures it looks quiet well and when I believe the seller it has been stored in the closed box on a dry attic, so nothing that could have harmed the plastic except the age itself and the age deteriation of the meterial. Still want the model kit somehow, don´t know why... it looks more interesting than the newer ones. The only thing that holds me back is the price, it is almost the price of a new kit. Micha Have you looked into the Academy 1/150 Cutty? It is a fairly newer kit I believe. I am currently building it and the molding is immaculate. Zero flash. You could also literally build the entire kit without dry fitting anything. It is still a decent size (about 24" long). I got it on Amazon for about $63, so not bad on price. Keith Black and Scottish Guy 2 Quote "Use the right word, not its second cousin." - Mark Twain Current build: Academy Cutty Sark 1:150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin-the-lubber Posted April 20 Share #81 Posted April 20 1 hour ago, David Chapman said: My gut says to stick with that approach to the end. I'd say listen to your gut. This is rich coming from me, but there it is. If I eventually decide to put sails on mine I will copy Marco's method (Bruma) as his sails are far and away the best that I've seen. But if you go down that road, take a look at the timeline on his log between starting to make the sails and finishing. My personal view is that cloth is no more realistic than the plastic. Even the thinnest fabric is too thick. But you may well get a good result by doing what your wife suggests but using EZE Tissue (you'll find it on ebay). However, I sense that you want to complete this kit and then see where you go next, and the quickest route is the plastic. The funny thing is that I don't think I've seen them on a single build here, so while we all think they'll look terrible, who knows, maybe they wouldn't look that bad. Keith Black and Scottish Guy 2 Quote Current builds: 1) HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23247-hms-victory-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic-with-3d-printed-additions/ 2) Bluenose II 1:100 (Billing) - paused, not in the mood https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30694-billing-bluenose-ii-1100-no600-by-kevin-the-lubber/ 3) Cutty Sark 1:96 Revell https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30964-cutty-sark-by-kevin-the-lubber-revell-196 Stash: Revell Cutty Sark 1/96 (a spare for later) Revell Beagle 1/96 (unlikely to ever get built!) Revell Kearsage 1/96 (can't wait to get started on this) Revell Constitution 1/96 If at first you don't succeed, buy some more tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapman Posted April 20 Author Share #82 Posted April 20 Kevin, That EZE tissue looks intriguing. My goodness, how much time it must take you all to build a ship from scratch! I've got maybe 120+ hours into my plastic kit and haven't gotten off the deck! That reminds me. Back in college when my current bride Deborah was off doing an internship and I was going crazy I spend 120 hrs building the attached ship with only toothpicks, thread, tissue paper and elmers. It was really quite something with rigging and sails (furled)...until my best ever dog got a hold of it. Grr! Now it works well as a ship wreck. I guess I'm not a complete rookie? Scottish Guy and Keith Black 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 20 Share #83 Posted April 20 25 minutes ago, David Chapman said: That EZE tissue looks intriguing. I agree with you David, the EZE tissue looks interestingly intriguing, I ordered a bag to have a look at it. For later maybe... and I love dogs but I feel sorry for you that the dog got hold of it and... destroyed it? To be honest, I like the ship wreck, looks interesting. If you paint it porperly you could put it into a nice small diorama, somehow stranded on a beach? I like that idea... Micha David Chapman and Keith Black 1 1 Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapman Posted April 21 Author Share #84 Posted April 21 (edited) So I spent 40 minutes hand painting these 216 blocks only to be half way done. Those air brushes are sounding pretty good right now. Edited April 21 by David Chapman Scottish Guy and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 21 Share #85 Posted April 21 Now that looks amzing, nice job she will turn out very well done... Micha Keith Black 1 Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost and Confused Posted April 21 Share #86 Posted April 21 23 hours ago, David Chapman said: Back on topic. Struggling with what to do about the sails. As you know, despite encouragement, I have been true to the stock Revell to date. My gut says to stick with that approach to the end. But others have suggested to reconsider that. My bride (of 49 years) is a bonified craftsman. She thought using the plastic sails as a form and cover them in in starch soaked cloth and trim them to fit might work. We plan to try a sample of that... but I'm still reluctant. The provided plastic sails can look just fine if carefully cut and installed Keith Black and Scottish Guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapman Posted April 21 Author Share #87 Posted April 21 2 hours ago, Lost and Confused said: The provided plastic sails can look just fine if carefully cut and installed That's what I'm hoping. Still not sure. Scottish Guy and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 21 Share #88 Posted April 21 3 minutes ago, David Chapman said: That's what I'm hoping. Still not sure. Good luck with that, I´m just not a fan from the plastic sails. I have seen a model today (I visited the charity shop that sells the Revell kit) and I just don´t like the plastic sails. But this is a decision everyone has to make themselves. I know that most folks don´t use them, so maybe when painted and weathered properly, acurately cut out they might look good. It´s just my personal choice and decision... you can give it a go anyway, if you then don´t like it you still can change to fabric or the EZE sheets. Micha David Chapman and Keith Black 2 Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapman Posted April 24 Author Share #89 Posted April 24 On 4/21/2024 at 12:58 PM, Scottish Guy said: Good luck with that, I´m just not a fan from the plastic sails. I have seen a model today (I visited the charity shop that sells the Revell kit) and I just don´t like the plastic sails. But this is a decision everyone has to make themselves. I know that most folks don´t use them, so maybe when painted and weathered properly, acurately cut out they might look good. It´s just my personal choice and decision... you can give it a go anyway, if you then don´t like it you still can change to fabric or the EZE sheets. Micha Wow. Finally spent time reading through 2/3 of Bruma's log. He and his Cutty are brilliant! Just wow. Scottish Guy and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Guy Posted April 24 Share #90 Posted April 24 3 hours ago, David Chapman said: Finally spent time reading through 2/3 of Bruma's log. He and his Cutty are brilliant! Good morning David. Told you, one of the best and amazing looking Cutty Sarks I´ve ever seen. Just stunning and well done. Micha Keith Black 1 Quote "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." Jacques - Yves Cousteau. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Build: "Roar Ege" by Billing Boats - 1:25 On Hold: n/a Finished: n/a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.