Newbie here- Flattening the planks?

[Chikpeas]

Hello!!!

 

So I am having a Blast planking the Occre model Polaris, so far it’s really not complicated and I’m having fun and chipping along quickly!

 

I just have one concern- that my planks are not laying flat against the keel? I have 0 clue how to make that happen. I don’t glue my planks down for this build because, having no idea what I’m doing, I can at least take parts off to Re-hammer and fix. But yeah- my planks are crooked and poking out. 

 

I’m sure after sanding and all that, it’ll be fine, but I would like to know how YOU keep the keel pieces flat for my future hulls. The instructions aren’t helping me figure this one out on where things went wrong. 

 

Did I not sand the ribs or supports enough? Does it require strong glue and clamps and bam easy fix?

 

Thank you SO much, you’re saving the Terror from future hell 🫣😂

[Chikpeas]

—— edit: someone said yes lots of glue and lots of clamps and they were correct 👍 

 

let’s see if I can nuke this post

[LCdr Dave]

Hi Chickpeas,

Welcome to the forums. There is a ton of help here and you can google YouTube videos and find practicums and lessons that ago through planking in detail. I am not familiar with your particular model but when I started my Mayflower some two years ago, frustration let to me ripping everything off, finding more resources, and trying again a year later. I got ‘er done! I had to learn patience, how to bend wood in two directions, and more but it is all out there. From the bit that I see on yours, you are going to pre-bend the planks so that they sit without forcing them and you will likely need “stealer” planks to fill in the gaps.

Definitely check out other build logs to see what others do.

Best of luck,

Dave

[Jaager]

If you click on the Articles Database link at the top here  and scroll down to the Framing and Planking section, the bottom three articles will show how the planking should be done.  You do not have the materials to match what is shown, but this  may give you a map for adapting as best can.  Or you can buy wider and better replacement planking from a vendor at the right side of this page.

 

You cannot spill an "S" shaped plank from wider stock  with what is your kit supplied planking,  Trying to edge bend to a serious degree is fighting the nature of the wood, so at least you should have some idea about the cause of your frustration.  The garboard is the key to getting the rest of the planking to work out.  For it, the edge opposite the keel should stay dead straight.  Any removal should be at the keel edge and that should mostly be at the stem rabbet.  Never bend the ends up the stem.

[Chikpeas]

28 minutes ago, Jaager said:

If you click on the Articles Database link at the top here  and scroll down to the Framing and Planking section, the bottom three articles will show how the planking should be done.  You do not have the materials to match what is shown, but this  may give you a map for adapting as best can.  Or you can buy wider and better replacement planking from a vendor at the right side of this page.

 

You cannot spill an "S" shaped plank from wider stock  with what is your kit supplied planking,  Trying to edge bend to a serious degree is fighting the nature of the wood, so at least you should have some idea about the cause of your frustration.  The garboard is the key to getting the rest of the planking to work out.  For it, the edge opposite the keel should stay dead straight.  Any removal should be at the keel edge and that should mostly be at the stem rabbet.  Never bend the ends up the stem.

w o w, I didn’t know that.. I have a Lot to learn because I had to Google quite a few things you said 😅😆 

I’m fresh out of the oven in this hobby.

 

To get the planks to work, I steamed them for like 20 mins over a pot of boiling water and did a little crimping to get them to bend easier… that explains why I broke a few… 

 

Thank you so much!!! I’ll finish this with what I have but once I’m Done I’ll go through what you’ve suggested, I might actually try another beginner build with other planks for practice 😄

[Dr PR]

chickpeas,

 

First of all, you shouldn't have planks coming up to the keel at an angle like you show in the picture.

 

The first plank up from the keel is called the garboard strake. It runs parallel to the bottom of the keel, and is tapered to a point where it starts to curve up at the bow. Getting the right shape is important because it allows the next plank (strake) to run fairly straight without really sharp bending.

 

Here is a drawing of a typical garboard strake from Donald Dressel's Planking Techniques for Model Ship Builders.

 

 

This is an ideal shape for a vessel with a bluff bow, cut from a wider plank. The wider part at the stern (left in the drawing) allows the next plank up to fit easily without a gap. But if you are using the normal planks that come with the kit just taper the forward end to the point. You add a triangular "stealer" to fill any gap between your garboard strake and the next plank (see below).

 

The garboard strake is a complex shape. The idea is to set the run of all the planks above it to require the minimum of bending and fitting. Dressel suggests a simple way to create the shape. Run a strip of masking tape along the keel, starting at the midships bulkhead. Put the top edge of the tape exactly one plank width up on the bulkhead. Then stick the aft end to the stern bulkheads, pulling the tape taught to get a straight edge one plank width up from the keel. Then carefully press the tape to each successive bulkhead toward the bow, allowing it to fall in a natural  curve all the way to the bow.

 

Now cut the tape on the bottom edge to follow the line where the bulkheads intersect the keel. You can lay a plank over the tape and jam it against the keel to guide your knife. Pull the cut tape off and you have the shape of the inboard side of the garboard strake. Because this plank must be beveled on the bottom edge to fit against the keel the outboard side will be a bit wider. This will require a bit of fitting by trial and error. Or you can just leave the edge proud as in the photo below and then add additional material to the keel later.

 

Note: This is a hull I built about 40 years ago, early in the learning curve! Experienced builders will not think this is an especially good example of planking because all the planks do not taper the same amount. But if you are planning on painting the hull it won't matter.

 

 

Some kits and essentially all scratch builds will cut a rabbet into the keel along the bottom edge of the garboard strake. This is a groove  that removes material from the keel for the lower edge of the garboard strake to fit into without having to taper it or add additional material.

 

After you install the garboard strake all remaining planks will fit more or less parallel to the garboard strake. Depending upon the shape of the hull (streamlined bow or bluff bow) you will have to taper each plank a bit at the bow to get them to lay flat without needing to twist them. The photos show a very streamlined tapered hull where the planking was pretty easy.

 

Here is a photo of the stern showing how a triangular "stealer" was used to fill in the gap where planks wanted to spread apart because of the shape of the hull. Here the garboard strake just has the parallel edges from the original plank.

 

 

This is just the beginning of planking fiddly bits. Ideally no plank will come to a sharp point (less than a 45 degree angle) and there are nibbing and hooking techniques to eliminate these points. That is something for more experienced builds.

Edited March 9 by Dr PR

[Chikpeas]

1 hour ago, LCdr Dave said:

Hi Chickpeas,

Welcome to the forums. There is a ton of help here and you can google YouTube videos and find practicums and lessons that ago through planking in detail. I am not familiar with your particular model but when I started my Mayflower some two years ago, frustration let to me ripping everything off, finding more resources, and trying again a year later. I got ‘er done! I had to learn patience, how to bend wood in two directions, and more but it is all out there. From the bit that I see on yours, you are going to pre-bend the planks so that they sit without forcing them and you will likely need “stealer” planks to fill in the gaps.

Definitely check out other build logs to see what others do.

Best of luck,

Dave

Hello!
stealer planks for sure! 

I feel like I’m pushing the limits to the type of wood I’m currently working with, actually to the point that I’m splicing and puzzle piecing the bow. (The front? That’s the bow— I think.) Going to try to learn a different way to do planking in some of the videos others posted on this site like it was suggested, I would cry if I had to rip all the planks off right now😭

[Jaager]

Things are not nearly a dire as they seem.

Polaris is a double layer POB build.

You are doing the first layer. The only function of the first layer of planking is to provide an adequate base for the actual planking.

The molds on most POB kits are too widely spaced to provide support by themselves.  Even though the first Italian kits termed them bulkheads, this is not what they are.

Actual bulkheads are a feature of steel vessels and Chinese sea going junks.  Western wooden ships did not have bulkheads. They are a mold of the cross section at their location. 

For that first planking layer - just good enough for the outer layer is enough.  Gaps between strakes are not important.  They do not need to be filled.  If there are dips and hollows  between the molds, these need to be fleshed out.  Often a scab of wood does a better job than spackle if the dip is significant.

If there is enough support for the outer planking, it does not matter what it looks like.

 

[Chikpeas]

9 hours ago, Jaager said:

Things are not nearly a dire as they seem.

Polaris is a double layer POB build.

You are doing the first layer. The only function of the first layer of planking is to provide an adequate base for the actual planking.

The molds on most POB kits are too widely spaced to provide support by themselves.  Even though the first Italian kits termed them bulkheads, this is not what they are.

Actual bulkheads are a feature of steel vessels and Chinese sea going junks.  Western wooden ships did not have bulkheads. They are a mold of the cross section at their location. 

For that first planking layer - just good enough for the outer layer is enough.  Gaps between strakes are not important.  They do not need to be filled.  If there are dips and hollows  between the molds, these need to be fleshed out.  Often a scab of wood does a better job than spackle if the dip is significant.

If there is enough support for the outer planking, it does not matter what it looks like.

 

Okay, that makes me feel better 😅 

[LCdr Dave]

Sometimes you just have to rebuild. I had to rip off my bottom planking as it just wasn’t working. After more study and reading I figured it out and I’m much happier. I only have a single planking though. 
Dave

[Chikpeas]

Hey everyone, I am happy to have an arsenal of informative on actual planning shared here, for this build I just wanted to finish it just how I’ve been doing it and then learn the new planking methods for the next build, 

 

but I ran into a rather large problem

 

so back when I was trying to sand, I did it wrong. I couldn’t find any head-on images for this boat so I really didn’t know what I was doing and as a result, this happened:

 

how could I fix this? It’s completely due to the hull being misshapen…  (it looks really gross on the planks right now but I’ll be fixing it)

 

could I sneak a third row of planking to extend the ends, tidy it up, and hide this?

 

[Jaager]

I would use a filler at the stem and paint the hull.

or

remove the planking and buy a replacement from a site vendor or visit your local WoodCraft store and get a veneer that is better - sawn not rotary cut if possible.

Veneer just needs a steel straight edge and a keenly sharp knife.  Strop often.

 

The color of the planking is way darker than any species that I believe was used for an actual ship.

To my eye, it looks brittle, course, open pore. - not even close to a 1:75 scaled down version of real wood that was used.

 

A Wayback machine view of this:

Taper the stem to about half its thickness at the outer char.

Cut a rabbet - a proper rabbet = the correct width in the stem.  Small chisel.  Practice a lot on scrap first.

Start the planking at the rabbet and add bonding as it fits aft.

Apply the same plank P&S - not all one side and then the other.

Planking width 6" -8" in scale with the the garboard maybe a bit wider.

 

 

[Chikpeas]

10 minutes ago, Jaager said:

I would use a filler at the stem and paint the hull.

or

remove the planking and buy a replacement from a site vendor or visit your local WoodCraft store and get a veneer that is better - sawn not rotary cut if possible.

Veneer just needs a steel straight edge and a keenly sharp knife.  Strop often.

 

The color of the planking is way darker than any species that I believe was used for an actual ship.

To my eye, it looks brittle, course, open pore. - not even close to a 1:75 scaled down version of real wood that was used.

 

A Wayback machine view of this:

Taper the stem to about half its thickness at the outer char.

Cut a rabbet - a proper rabbet = the correct width in the stem.  Small chisel.  Practice a lot on scrap first.

Start the planking at the rabbet and add bonding as it fits aft.

Apply the same plank P&S - not all one side and then the other.

Planking width 6" -8" in scale with the the garboard maybe a bit wider.

 

 

Thank you- 🥰 I’m going to give it a go, and you’re right these planks are thin and Very brittle. Cutting them is a complete nightmare even with a surgeon 11 scalpel. I feel like I need to break out the dremel saw but I’m nervous these planks will split and crack like hell. 
 

I really hope drowning it in paint will make it look better and fixing up the stem will do it justice… 

 

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, Chikpeas said:

I really hope drowning it in paint will make it look better and fixing up the stem will do it justice… 

"Drowning it in paint" isn't a solution. As Jaager explained, "use filler and then paint." There is a variety of fillers on the market. You want one that is "fine grained." Something less coarse than just dry-wall mud. I use epoxy resin and sanding additive ("micro-balloons") for filling heavy imperfections like you have at present. The epoxy is a strong adhesive that adds structural strength to the assembled parts, as well.  The epoxy with the sanding additive works very well but takes an overnight to cure sufficiently to sand. At that point, it sands like butter. Follow the manufacturer's instructions and mix the additive to yield a texture like soft peanut butter. Apply sparingly to minimize the work of sanding fair. More can be added to the first coat to fill missed divots if need be. Sand carefully using a flexible batten with sandpaper attached to achieve the fairness of the hull shape. Start with 220 grit sandpaper and work it down to 320 grit. The hull must be perfectly fair and "smooth as a baby's bottom."

 

Epoxy resin is an expensive material, although there is a range of prices which reflect the old adage that you get what you pay for.  (I don't recommend using any polyester fairing compounds, such as Bondo. I realize many modelers do, but Bondo is intended for application on sheet metal, not wood, and Bondo is hygroscopic which may promote deterioration in the wood.) WEST System is the "industry standard" and probably the most expensive epoxy brand on the market, but like Jello-brand "jello," it's the original and still the best. I use WEST epoxy because I've used it for fifty years and I'm used to how it reacts. Epoxy resin is a very handy and adaptable modeling material, useful as both an adhesive and a casting resin, although its archival qualities are as yet not entirely proven. Notwithstanding the cost of a "kit" of resin and hardener, it has a very long shelf life and you may wish to add it to your stock of modeling materials. Buying a small "kit" of resin and hardener is, in any event, vastly more economical than buying small tubes of epoxy and hardener off the blister pack rack at the hardware store. WEST System has written the "Bible" on epoxy applications, and it is available in PDF format at: WS-User-Manual-2020.pdf (westsystem.com)      (WEST's well-known book, The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Consturction is also available for free in PDF format at;  Form (hsforms.com)  

 

Amazon.com: FILLER MICROLIGHT 2 OZ : Automotive

 

If you want to avoid taking the leap to epoxy technology, you can also attempt to achieve the same result using other surfacing putty alternatives.  If small imperfections remain you can also use a fine-grained surfacing putty. This putty uses acetone as its solvent and dries very quickly as long as it isn't applied to thickly. (Store can tightly closed and lid-side down. If it thickens in the can, add a tablespoon or two of acetone, close the can and turn over. After sitting overnight, the putty should have absorbed the acetone and thinned. Don't try to stir the acetone into the thickened putty as this will only create lumps in the putty. There's no substitute for leaving the acetone in the closed can overnight to reconstitute the consistency of the putty.) Surfacing putty can be "built up," but applications of more than around 1/16" thick should be allowed to dry well before adding more to avoid shrinkage and cracking of the material. This stuff also sands very easily, as it is intended to do. I use Interlux Surfacing Putty because I'm familiar with it from years of using it in full-size yacht restorations and it's a staple that's always at hand in my paint locker. Unfortunately, like any material "with a boat on the label," it's costly. I'm sure similar surfacing putties can be sourced in any well-stocked paint store.  (Here again, I'd steer clear of the polyester resin based automotive body and fender repair putties intended for application to sheet metal.)

 

Amazon.com: Interlux Y257/PT Surfacing Putty - White, Pint : Interlux/AkzoNobel: Tools & Home Improvement

 

 

Once you've completely filled every surface imperfection on your hull, you can then clean it well, brushing off the sanding dust well and then using a tack cloth (from any paint store) to get all the dust specs off the surface. It is very important to achieve a dust-free surface as much as is possible before painting. You must apply a base coat over surfacing putty to yield a uniform colored surface that will not "print through" your finish coats.  Enamel "sanding base coats" (sometimes called "sanding primer coats,") are available which permit a final fine sanding before finish coats are applied. When your base (primer) coat is done and sanded perfectly and all dust tacked off, then you can go ahead and apply your finish coats as per the manufacturer's instructions. An airbrush is the easiest method for obtaining a perfect result. It can be done with a brush, but that requires a bit of experience and skill. It won't hurt to try. If you mess up with a brush, you can always sand the surface fair and try again!  

Edited March 19 by Bob Cleek