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Posted

 I love all that detail you included, LJP. Really nice work. 

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

My major source for images of some of the machinery and the engine room is the S. S. Moyie (1898).  Moyie is now a museum boat in  Kaslo, British Columbia.  It had an incredibly long life and ran Lake Kootenay until 1957.  It has numerous YouTube videos, both of the ship as a museum, but also when it was still in operation.  Several years ago, the museum website (which also has a Facebook account) had an interactive video (since discontinued, unfortunately)  that afforded an true in-depth look at the boat.  I have gotten screen shots from several of the videos.

 

Moyie had two manual pumps that I replicated.  In the engine room was a manual fire pump while in the boiler room was a manual feed pump. 

These are two photos of the fire pump. 

image.png.8e8f4846685a0644d885d0772c79e57c.pngimage.png.f43a722890f603c86ce556130df6170c.png

This is the build without the handles.  Note a new dime – wore the other one out.  The diameter of the dime equates to 3’ 8” in scale.  I lightly glue small parts to scrap balsa to make it easier to airbrush or paint. That is what you see at the base of the part.

image.png.969aa96c1fa701d9a41d18390b62af25.png

Finished product, with arms. Ready to be placed in the engine room.

image.png.9c418a5dc8df784c79ba5b48fdc1e1f2.png

I do not have a great photo of the manual feed pump but it still provides enough detail for a build.

image.png.64ee3d964d3a2ea74fe31ebc8cd3bbe8.png

Another dime time before painting.

image.png.ac8b422c547a752228966a52e0438d31.png

And the finished product. This will be placed on the main deck in front of the boiler pit, just like Moyie.

image.png.e2f87b57dabf695952efc5bf1ad6ab60.png

Next, onto the steam main and auxiliary feed pumps.

 

Posted

John and Cathead, 

 

Thanks again for your kind words.  Suggestions are always appreciated as I am no expert by any means.

 

LJP

Posted

 Great looking pumps, LJP. 

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

Keith, 

 

Thanks again for both of your comments.

 

On a more serious note, take care.  We do not bounce like we once did when we were younger.  Hope to see more on your Lula.

 

LJP

Posted

Thanks John,

 

I have lots of machinery to go.  I am trying to provide more detail than when I did Thistle.  I have learned a lot and hope to incorporate some of the changes as I go forward.

 

LJP

Posted

There are numerous examples of feed pumps out there.  I did not use Moyie’s pumps as they are completely different and much more modern than many of the period single pumps.  While I used photos of several different pumps for the period, the two following are the ones I most relied upon.  My build used rocker arms (top photo) versus the older slide model on the bottom litho.

image.png.aa171cef5c0fbd6074c64a22a81d72a7.png

The dime is back! The finished but unpainted main and auxiliary pumps are below.  I have included a photo of each side to show the detail.  The air chambers are cut down corsage pins. The rest is numerous pieces of Evergreen plastic, wire, and thread.

 

image.png.50e3eae214931b208a6cf66093c048c3.png

The finished products, again showing both sides.  And “saved” with paint.

 

image.png.632b3fdf7ee67c2c6d2b92b4775b4016.png

 

Now onto the engine assembly.  This means I will need to build the engines, slides, pitman arms and the paddle wheel – along with the cylinder timbers and sternwheel bracing.    This will take time and will be several individual projects.


I want to build each of the individual components and then place them where they should be in the final build.  That way it will be easier to install during final assembly. Once completed, I can then build the crew quarters and layout the engine room before re-installing the engine assembly. 
 

 

Posted

LJP, those pumps are fantastic! Using corsage pins was pure genius.  

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

Keith,

 

Thanks!  I struggled trying to make the air tanks until I stole these from my wife's craft projects.

 

LJP

Posted

Between your project and Keith's, I think I'm retiring from steamboat building. The bar has been set too high, LOL.

Posted

Cathead,

 

Thanks but... the reason my build is where it is, is because of your builds.  Among other things, I am not ready for the hull framing that you have done.  And the detail on your machinery is exceptional.  You are way too modest.

 

LJP

Posted
1 hour ago, LJP said:

Thanks but... the reason my build is where it is, is because of your builds.  Among other things, I am not ready for the hull framing that you have done.  And the detail on your machinery is exceptional.  You are way too modest.

 I agree 100%, LJP. I'm following the trail Eric blazed and now I have you to follow as you lead forward. 

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

Hi Keith,

 

One of the best parts of the builds is how willing people are in sharing information.  We all use ideas and methods that others have used and perfected.  And for those of us less skilled ( a/k/a me), people are not judgmental, just helpful.

 

LJP 

Posted

Up till now wood, some paper, and brass have been my materials of choice. I've used very little plastic but if I want to up my game I've GOT to start using styrene. I've resisted but after viewing your pumps my not going to styrene is just being a stubborn ole fool. 

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

There are two differing sources for the J. H. Crawford engines.  
1.    Local 1894 newspaper accounts list the engines as being constructed by J. A. Barnes of Oshkosh.  The cylinders were recorded as 13 by 50.
2.    The Milwaukee Public Library, Great Lakes Marine Collection, listed the registered engines as Corliss condensing engines, with the cylinders noted as 20 by 42. Corliss was a local manufacturer located south of Milwaukee and close to Kenosha. The boat was listed on the sheet under Thistle and not J. H. Crawford.


J. H. Crawford was never federally registered - as it was supposed to have been.  The subsequent Thistle was registered finally in 1900.  In fact, most Fox Wisconsin Waterway boats ignored registration until caught and threatened by the federal government.  


That being said, neither dimensions are really that different at 1:64 scale. Likewise, Corliss made poppet valve engines along with a myriad of other types.  It is possible but unlikely that JHC/Thistle would have had its engines changed out in the 1899 hull extension and name change.


As with the feed pumps, there are many, many examples of engines.  Alan L. Bates’ The Western Rivers Engine Room Cyclopedium had numerous types and photos if you want a more in-depth discussion. I chose to use this Bates photo for my build, although I have seen this photo in several 1890s books and on internet feeds.

 

image.png.fd8ff90b283a9d6f6fc9591b99d2af6f.png

Another useful engine graphic is both labeled and provides a quartering perspective.

image.png.6916ab193d1cd58fda0b2524c725b078.pngSource: Western Isles Photos/Graphics

 

Note the following photo used a pendulum attached to the pitman to run the valves, unlike many other boats that used an eccentric attached to the sternwheel itself.  Some boats actually used both the pendulum and the eccentric.

image.png.5f3365ef7bedba0174e43dd9e538fa7e.pngSource: Steamboats.com

JHC did have a pendulum based upon the cropped and enhanced photo below. I left the model’s engines with solely a pendulum for the steam cut-off control. I also used a simplified rocker assembly.

 

image.png.21deb22cf86c782a581dfb1a8a1b976d.pngHeavily cropped and enhanced. Note the pendulum. Source: University of Wisconsin LaCrosse Murphy Collection

Dime time with the finished but unpainted engines. The left engine is fully extended while the right is exactly at mid cylinder.  

 

image.png.a46d5e8ae1e958848db74c419d0d610f.png

The final painted products. I needed to add the pendulum and slide for clarity. The entire unit will be removed from the model until later assembly.  Makes life much easier. 

 

image.png.9c9d7c2859e2aa61c14702a9813ffc8a.png

And this is sorta what it will look like with the feed and manual water pumps are added.  But still lots of detail to be added.   

 

image.png.d8cd4ad9a4b347f44fee1583ffadd4c7.png

I need to make the sternwheel now.  I will use the same process an I did on Thistle. The process, along with upcoming family duties may require some time before completion.

 

Posted

 Fantastic engines, LJP. The Crawfords mechanicals are a delight. 

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

I must admit, I only occassionally browse MSW for new projects, so I missed the start of this one ... it coming along nicely!

 

Talking about rivetted boilers: my choice would have been to clad the boiler in thin copper or aluminium foil into which the 'rivets' have been embossed with a pounce-wheel. To do this I put the sheet on a piece of linoleum or a cutting mat and run down the wheel in the desired pattern. Then I turn the sheet over and push back the pimples lightly with a short piece of round dowel. This reduces the distortion from the pounce-wheel and at the same time makes the 'rivets' looking better defined.

 

I didn't look into the construction of Scotch boilers, but would think at the boiler ends these are not rivets, but the screws from the boiler stays?

 

And I learned something about sternwheelers today: in Keith's LULA project I wondered why they used the more complex valved engine (e.g. Corliss) and not the much simpler sliding-valve version as in most locomotives. Your description made me realise, that the excenter would have to be placed on the axle of the wheel, resulting in a very long connecting rod. The weight of that would cause a lot of wear on the glands of the steam-box for the sliding-valve. So while a Corliss-engine is a much more delicate machine in-board, it reduces the out-board parts to the pitman-arm and its crank. 💡

 

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
Posted

Keith,

Thanks for your comments! Much easier at 1:64 versus your Lula scale.

 

wefalck,

 

Love your idea on boiler plating using aluminum and a ponce wheel. I will use on my next boat. That will really improve the skin on the boiler. 

 

You are correct on the boiler end.  These were bolts and not rivets.  I cheated on using what looked like rivets instead of trying to recreate bolts. The upper were bolted across the length of the boiler, while the lower were attached to the internal chimney.  Not certain if that is the correct term but there was an internal open area and "chimney" at the back of a Scotch marine boiler.

 image.png.28d223aacb9e1769eabc66b0204b6783.png

 

I used a generic Western steamboat poppet engine on JHC.  These seemed simpler than the Corliss, even though the later Thistle my have had a Corliss. Again, Corliss may have been a generic name rathe than the manufacturer or the patent.  Some Corliss' were really different from the Western engines. Two views of a type of Corliss is below.  

image.jpeg.59dc0362a675dac88dc502ad1d78f5c0.jpegimage.jpeg.6cfb6d17b9132e9a2794f03d50e81237.jpeg

Thanks all.

LJP

 

 

 

 

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