First attempt at rope making

[SiriusVoyager]

I recently purchased and assembled the Model shipways rope walk and wanted to try it out.  I'm in the middle of rigging the San Francisco Cross Section at the time of posting so I will likely wait until the next model to make the rope.  I did however want to try it out.  For initial trial I am just using cotton string that I have lying around, but won't use it for models due to the fuzziness. 

 

The first attempt was with some thin black string, three strands per chord. 

 

 

 

I have rope!  I didn't give it a chance to see how it would lay up so I quickly tied it off, but it seemed to come out ok.  There are a couple of spots that that aren't quite right and there is less fuzz than I expected.

 

 

 

The second attempt was with some thicker cotton twin and as can be seen, no unraveling!  I'm pretty excited that I was able to do this adequately on a first attempt.

 

 

This process seems pretty easy, at least on a small scale, so I will be looking forward to making ropes for my future models.

[Desertanimal]

Would you mind continuing with this post some and including some information like thread sources and sizes? Then how do create your final rope size? Do you just add the diameters of your threads together? 
I’ll be starting the Alert soon and may be making rope! 👍

 Chris

[SiriusVoyager]

1 hour ago, Desertanimal said:

Would you mind continuing with this post some and including some information like thread sources and sizes? Then how do create your final rope size? Do you just add the diameters of your threads together? 
I’ll be starting the Alert soon and may be making rope! 👍

 Chris

Hey Chris, unfortunately I am not well versed enough in rope making to offer reliable information. These were literally the first two ropes I have made and that was simply to try out the rope walk. This section of the forums has a lot of good info however including a lot of the info you are looking for. 

[Desertanimal]

Thanks! This is a new area for me also. I thought you were seasoned rope, making professional!

 I wasn’t aware of this section. (Putting on reading glasses.)

 Chris

Edited October 16, 2024 by Desertanimal

[vaddoc]

Nice rope! Lots and lots of posts in MSW for rope making. 

 

[Daniel Kimmer]

Question for you, how has your experience been with the rope walk after nearly 10 months.  I've thought about purchasing one but was concerned about durability and ease of making rope.

[SiriusVoyager]

15 hours ago, Daniel Kimmer said:

Question for you, how has your experience been with the rope walk after nearly 10 months.  I've thought about purchasing one but was concerned about durability and ease of making rope.

Unfortunately I haven’t been making any rope since I tried it out. I just haven’t been at a point to need it. I should be making some here in the next week or so. 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Your rig is similar to Syren's Rope Rocket - the videos on scale rope making  on the Syren website are very instructive.  The consensus is the Guterman poly sewing thread makes the best rope (oven 'set' 5 -7 minutes in a 300 degree F oven after winding and stretching), with Mettler a close second.  I've used both, and the standard sewing thread has been available in sewing retailers (those that have not closed) or on line.  Its best to buy in person to judge the color.

  The thread is aprox .006" in diameter, and using a single thread on the rig set up for three strand rope yields scale rope about .010 in diameter - that represents 1" rope at 1:100 scale (or thereabouts).  Using 2 threads on each of the 3 strand setup (6 threads in all) yields scale rope about .020 in diameter.  3 treads on each of the 3 strands to wind (as I recall) yields closer to .030 scale rope.

  By experimenting (e.g. first making .010  rope and using THAT on each of a 3 strand set up - mind how the twist runs - can make thicker rope for larger scales).  You get to control the product as needed.

[SiriusVoyager]

14 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  Your rig is similar to Syren's Rope Rocket - the videos on scale rope making  on the Syren website are very instructive.  The consensus is the Guterman poly sewing thread makes the best rope (oven 'set' 5 -7 minutes in a 300 degree F oven after winding and stretching), with Mettler a close second.  I've used both, and the standard sewing thread has been available in sewing retailers (those that have not closed) or on line.  Its best to buy in person to judge the color.

  The thread is aprox .006" in diameter, and using a single thread on the rig set up for three strand rope yields scale rope about .010 in diameter - that represents 1" rope at 1:100 scale (or thereabouts).  Using 2 threads on each of the 3 strand setup (6 threads in all) yields scale rope about .020 in diameter.  3 treads on each of the 3 strands to wind (as I recall) yields closer to .030 scale rope.

  By experimenting (e.g. first making .010  rope and using THAT on each of a 3 strand set up - mind how the twist runs - can make thicker rope for larger scales).  You get to control the product as needed.

Thanks!  That is great info.  I am going to look more into the best practices, but what does the baking do?

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  When using polyester thread, the scale rope made can have a tendency to unravel when cut.  Baking (and note that this for a limited time at a moderate temperature 5 - 7 min at 300 deg. F ... to avoid melting) seems to 'set' the rope better and the raveling is far less.  Cotton (or linen) scale rope can ravel also, but does not need heat setting.  Cotton can weaken over decades, and that used on my Dad's clipper crumbled after 70 years.  Heat, pollutants and UV exposure will affect this - as well as for many materials.  No doubt, making scale rope from multiple cotton strands should be more durable - but linen is better a s natural material.

  The old-timers used linen fly fishing line (known as Old Cuttyhunk) and linen does stand the 'test of time' for rigging as well as sails.  The indications are the Polyester scale rope will also hold up over the decades.  BTW for either scale rope making or with full size rope (and I've demoed making some of that), one first spins the rope - and the trick is to balance the number of turns v/s counter turns in step one and step 2 of the process.  If you've done that, the rope won't 'kink up' on itself.

  If nearly in balance, the rope will only kink slightly.  The solution is to 'whip' the rope around so that it will get rid of any excess counter-twist.  Then with one end fixed to something or restrained as convenient, you pull on the run (not too hard) to get the twist to meld to itself better.  Stretching a few times will give a little more length and reduce the tendency to ravel when cut.  The poly gets heat-set as noted above.  Those who don't want to make their own can buy good scale rope from Syren or Ropes of Scale, as scale rope is far better than what is supplied in most kits.

  You'll notice that kit rope has a lot of 'fuzz' in close up shots.  Poly has the least fuzz.  Cotton rope will have some fuzz, but then what I've made from cotton  has been QUICKLY passthrough a (relatively) low temp flame of an old-fashioned alcohol burner.  This 'singes' off most of the fuzz, but if you don't move the scale rope fast enough - the line will catch fire and part.  DON'T do this with polyester scale rope.  Old linen fly fishing line doesn't have much fuzz because of the long fibers (cotton is short fibered), but it is VERY hard to find, since it was not made since the 1940s - and because some people collect spools of it, Old Cuttyhunk is very expensive.  The rope size is also larger - for 1:48 scale models.

Edited 1 hour ago by Snug Harbor Johnny

[Gregory]

53 minutes ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

When using polyester thread, the scale rope made can have a tendency to unravel when cut. 

Full size rope, synthetic or otherwise, tends to unravel when cut.

 

I experimented with baking my rope, and I feel it added a stiffness I don't care for.  I may not have got the formula just right.

[SiriusVoyager]

@Snug Harbor Johnny  Thank you for that explanation. I have looked for linen thread, but haven't had any luck finding any.  I'll give it a test with two ropes, one baked and one not to see the difference.  The test rope I made when I first tried it didn't seem to unwind, at least not before I tied the ends. I'll have to take a look at what brand of thread that I have.  I know it is polyester, but I am sure it isn't guterman.