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Posted
On 12/6/2024 at 5:56 PM, Baker said:

The strakes normally follow the lines of the planks and seal the seams between two planks

 

Well today I learned - and that's annoying, because the Caldercraft instructions have them as I've placed them on the hull. I should have looked this up first!

 

On 12/6/2024 at 5:56 PM, Baker said:

Here indeed there was no clinker planking, but removable shields.

I woke up this morning and decided it would always annoy me if I didn't change this. I've already ripped some of these off and I've started on the planking of a similar area on the forecastle - I'll update soon with my new version.

 

Thanks for the reply!

Doug

 

In the shipyard:

Caldercraft's Mary Rose 1:80
 

Finished Builds:

Mamoli's Gretel 1:54

OcCre Palamos 1:45

Posted

I can send you more info and drawings via pm about these shields.
But then you have to wait a bit, Baker is on vacation

Posted
On 12/8/2024 at 9:27 PM, Baker said:

I can send you more info and drawings via pm about these shields.

I'd be interested in your research - though I've already added in my interpretation of the drawings I have for my model 😉 I hope your vacation is going well!

 

Here's today's update. After taking off the clinker over the gunport holes, I turned my attention fully to the forecastle this week.

Well, sort of fully - here's my 3D-printed bronze cannon, now painted bronze. 20241209_155656.thumb.jpg.32117f69927b3ceb9fcf5ae24dd8fb9e.jpg

I'm very happy with how these have turned out. For the paint I used Army Painter Weapon Bronze, followed by a wash of Citadel Nuln Oil and a drybrush of both Weapon Bronze and Citadel Leadbelcher. I was tempted to add a little verdigris with some weathering powders I have, but I think that might be taking  it a little too far!

 

Here's two of them in place:

20241211_131442.thumb.jpg.7a4e2753e9c585d7cea4667cc8b80f62.jpg

 

So. Forecastle.

In a previous post I mentioned that I was unsure about how to deal with the delta-shaped top of the lowest deck of the castle where it meets the second deck. In the end, I simply planked over it. This looks similar to some of the reference images I'm using, and I'm pleased with how these planks have fit together.

20241208_183146.thumb.jpg.e55fb095ed40a5749bb79c2f00311c8a.jpg

You can see here the offset hole I've cut for the bowsprit and the slight divot I've taken from the front supporting post to accomodate it as well.

 

And here's my solution for the pavisade gunports - I'll be replicating this on the sterncastle as well, though slightly differently as the ports are spaced slightly closer together there.

20241211_191828.thumb.jpg.37bd95e2d5f89d4bdf8d7712821ee594.jpg

In McElvogue's book he has a lovely illustration of how these would have fit together, and I loosely copied that. The ports need a bit of cleanup in this photo, but they're far better representations of the various media than what I'd done before. Also in this photo note the white band across the middle where I'll be painting the yellow and red stripes depicted in the Anthony Roll. I used white painter's gesso for this as it's designed for use on wood and provides a very solid base coat - another layer still required.

 

For the top layer of ports I've created a similar pattern, but as these are smaller in the various sources I have I resorted to a bit of improvisation. Later on I filed out a little groove in the top of each port to create the same 'dimpled' shape as the lower ones.

 

Here's a couple photos of it in situ:

20241211_205339.thumb.jpg.14f48bef13052e821aae701c26e83950.jpg

20241211_205357.thumb.jpg.3407f17506b6d58cb549213bf03093e6.jpg

 

You can also see a sneak peek at my sterncastle progress - I stuck in the four cannon and have begun the pavisade gunports there too, but I'll update that properly in the next post. I'm happy with how the forecastle looks here, and though I am a little concerned about the height I think it does match the historical sources quite well.

 

Now onto the main issue that's caused me consternation over the last few days. First, let's look at the Anthony Roll's depiction of the forecastle:

image.png.31ea8a1991534e11679945c93d47949a.png

 

And then here is McElvogue's drawing of it:

20241212_112922.thumb.jpg.0950bba2c70fa5e7a2d2aa1813d44696.jpg

 

And Marsden's:

20241212_113015.thumb.jpg.8353e6b14c5838cfb33846507ea3eddf.jpg

 

So my questions were mostly around the top 'cabin' and the two 'prows' that extend over the top deck and the cabin's roof. In McElvogue's work they're extremely pronounced, whilst in Marsden's they're nonexistent. I can't believe that Anthony Anthony would have added the slight curve forward in his illustration if it wasn't there, but it certainly doesn't feel like a sharp point is what we're working with here.

 

Additionally, both of the archaeologists have omitted any kind of railing on their top deck here, implying that there was no access to this point on the ship, and yet to manage the masts there must have been a need to climb up here. Certainly health and safety wasn't what it is today, but I'd be surprised if there was nothing at all, especially when looking at the Embarkation painting, which definitely has a pavisade-style railing, much like in the waist of the Mary Rose:

image.png.0a8623c98c7a19558edaa242967ab2e5.png

 

Here's my creation with the bowsprit in place against one of Marsden's drawings:

20241212_113424.thumb.jpg.7978f3722eb7d0dddb2e463899ec55a8.jpg

As you can see, the bowsprit on mine is at a much steeper angle - I could change this still, but it does appear to have been steeper based on the various historical sources, and McElvogue's book has it at around a 40 degree pitch.

 

For the prow, I initially experimented with creating something similar to McElvogue's work, bending a plank to meet a very pointed 'stempost' at the tip of the castle:

20241212_112444.thumb.jpg.dbd92c0f77066358dc58c9ff46b611db.jpg

I think that if I'd got this to work, it would have looked quite nice, but after a lot of struggling I just couldn't make the planks sit right, and it didn't feel like the Anthony Roll's depiction at all.

 

I moved on to a slightly less prominent 'prow' (forgive me, I have no idea what this point should be called).

20241212_142358.thumb.jpg.dbf34a9ad68b417ae31718a6d508c86b.jpg

And this is what I've decided to go with - it still expands the top 10mm or so of the castle without creating a major headache of plank bending, and looks a lot more like the Embarkation painting.

 

Here's a view of the inside:

20241212_142408.thumb.jpg.ddbd8d7c90160ba6f67f5ab78df4fab0.jpg

The two planks here raise the height around 10mm above the deck - that's just over 1 metre to scale. My plan is to have this as the railing of the top deck, and build up the cabin at the back of this structure.

 

So that's what I did:

20241212_161324.thumb.jpg.0a19ad91df01629496b4d29e8b77cf01.jpg

Here's the cabin, with three supports to estimate a good height. This is 20mm above the railing planks, which I intend to lower slightly. You can see that I've planked over these with a very thin sapelli veneer; this will be the base for another strip of white gesso before I paint on the stripes.

 

And some walls on the cabin:

20241212_172018.thumb.jpg.e524c7c603a6ebd4fa12ee3003e87aa2.jpg

I again used some of the precut boards from the Caldercraft kit for this - I believe that these would have been part of the original forecastle, so it's nearly accurate 😉 I'll put in some more interesting planking around these once I'm happy with the basic structure.

 

And here it is on the ship:

20241212_174159.thumb.jpg.f4d7c82e5f4d1edcd6dc3b6e2daf4e57.jpg

 

And from the front:

20241212_174218.thumb.jpg.efbf818ef6d694b8f22fade8a50a6630.jpg

 

I'm sure that this is deviating wildly from known historical evidence at this point, but ultimately it is a model, my first semi-scratch build - and I'm pretty damn pleased with how this has come out.

 

Do let me know your thoughts.

Thanks for reading!

 

Doug

 

In the shipyard:

Caldercraft's Mary Rose 1:80
 

Finished Builds:

Mamoli's Gretel 1:54

OcCre Palamos 1:45

Posted

Excllent work,  I still  remember the  day when she was lifted in the Solent -  what  an event  on the tv.

 

OC.

Current builds  


28mm  Battle of Waterloo   attack on La Haye Saint   Diorama.

1/700  HMS Hood   Flyhawk   with  PE, Resin  and Wood Decking.

 

 

 

Completed works.

 

Dragon 1/700 HMS Edinburgh type 42 batch 3 Destroyer plastic.

HMS Warspite Academy 1/350 plastic kit and wem parts.

HMS Trafalgar Airfix 1/350 submarine  plastic.

Black Pearl  1/72  Revell   with  pirate crew.

Revell  1/48  Mosquito  B IV

Eduard  1/48  Spitfire IX

ICM    1/48   Seafire Mk.III   Special Conversion

1/48  Kinetic  Sea Harrier  FRS1

Posted
On 12/13/2024 at 5:33 AM, djford said:

the two 'prows' that extend over the top deck and the cabin's roof. In McElvogue's work they're extremely pronounced, whilst in Marsden's they're nonexistent.

Keep in mind that these reconstruction drawings are modern interpretations, and I for one can't see any evidence to justify these 'prows'. I like your way of doing it far better.

 

I think the angle of the bowsprit looks far closer to the Anthony Roll depiction than those of the two modern reconstructions. So go with it.

 

The height of the bulwark above the deck - one metre - is what is specified here in Oz for any structure such as a railing on a raised floor/balcony etc. So I think you're on the money there.

 

The triangular 'cabin' surprised me a bit. I would have thought the Anthony Roll shows the walls parallel to the sides of the forecastle. But this is very open to interpretation, and I'm by no means going to say you're wrong in doing it this way.

 

Overall, I'm gobsmacked. You're doing a beautiful job!

 

Steven

Posted
10 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

The triangular 'cabin' surprised me a bit. I would have thought the Anthony Roll shows the walls parallel to the sides of the forecastle. But this is very open to interpretation, and I'm by no means going to say you're wrong in doing it this way.

Yes, I'm not entirely sure about it, but I think I'm happy with how it looks. If it doesn't work out it's only the top deck to rip off later 😉

 

That said, if you look at the Anthony Roll there are three obvious flags on the very top of the forecastle, and so I was going with the assumption they were on each point of the triangle. There's one more flag on the forward tip of the forecastle itself. We'll see!

 

10 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Overall, I'm gobsmacked. You're doing a beautiful job!

Thank you very much, that means a lot!

Doug

 

In the shipyard:

Caldercraft's Mary Rose 1:80
 

Finished Builds:

Mamoli's Gretel 1:54

OcCre Palamos 1:45

Posted
5 hours ago, djford said:

there are three obvious flags on the very top of the forecastle, and so I was going with the assumption they were on each point of the triangle.

Interesting thought. To me it looks as if the two at far left and far right are level with each other, both at the front corner of the 'cabin', and the rear one is at the back corner (starboard), but that leaves the question 'where's the one for the port back corner?' Or it could just be that he bunged flags wherever he could fit them. I dunno. Up to you, mate, whatever you feel is right. It's your model, after all.

 

Best wishes,

 

Steven

Posted

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