Serving size line

[freewheelinguy]

Fellow members,

 

I have been looking through several books (Lee's, AOTS Belona, Vol4 David's, Anatomy of Nelson Ships) and can't seem to find any definitive answer on what size the serving line is on different lines of a ship that require it.  Some give seizings and/or formulas for different rope size proportions, but none for servings.  Is there a formula for this? 

 

Happy modeling,

Len

 

 

[Ulises Victoria]

With all due respect, Len, but I think that would be overkill when applied to scale models, don't you think? The differences in width of serving lines at 1/64 1/98 or 1/48 are just infinitesimal, IMO. Or maybe is that it's of so low importance that that's why you haven't find any references??? 

Anyway I would like to hear a more experienced answer.

[druxey]

With even more due respect, the question is not superfluous. I've seen too many model with bulky, oversized servings (and lashings!) that detract from their appearance. I think the line size has to look 'right' regardless of scale. I suspect in full size, about 1" circumference line is roughly what would be required.

[davec]

Hi Len - I've never seen dimensions for serving, but you could probably safely use the dimensions for seizings.  I have attached a picture off the web of the constitution that shows both served line, and unserved line with seizings, and the dimensions look the same.  You probably want to use something really fine as it may look wrong if oversized.  I'm building a schooner in 1/48 scale, and will probably use 4-0 or 6-0 silk.

 

Dave

Edited October 9, 2013 by davec

[Chuck]

Folks have had great success with fly fishing line and surgical suture line although the later is quite expensive.

[jud]

The seizing line I have used, because it was what was provided for that propose in the Navy, was a fibrous line that had been lightly treated with a tar like substance. Twisted cotton was used on fancywork intended to be painted, both types were similar in size, about 3/16" in diameter. Lines used on things like the toggles on boat falls and heaving lines with their Monkey's Fists were braided cotton, about 1/4" in diameter. Would think that lines used for seizing and fancy work would have the same characteristics today as had been found useful in the past. None of those lines ended up bulky after proper use.

jud

Edited October 9, 2013 by jud

[Jim Lad]

Len,

 

Seizings were usually put on using marlin, which is a very light line impregnated with Stockholm tar.  It is pretty much impossible to find a line too small for the seizings in model work as marlin is only about 1/8 inch in diameter.

 

If you go to the following link of the process of renewing the Endeavour replica's standing rigging, you can find some photos of seizings, which you may find helpful in visualising the size of the line used.  This is a PDF file, so you can enlarge it quite a bit to get clear views of the seizings.

 

John

[freewheelinguy]

Thanks for all the replies, so far.  My post was to find out the real size and model size doesn't come into play for my asking.  Seems like, if someone was told to go down to the boatswains locker to get material for servings he would be issued a certain type of line.  Guessing same size used for all applications whether 20" or 8" circumference rope.  Material would have to be listed somewhere.

 

My original thought for asking was to find out what size was used in the real world, then apply scale size line sample and make a decision, if it is worth it.  I've seen several models with servings that look wonderful.  For me, this is a detail that I would like to incorporate, if I think it's worth the effort.  To me this fits in the same category as treenails, deck caulking, and similar details.  I have 6/0 and 3/0 fishing line.  The 6/0 has the smallest dia. (.005") which is close to 1" circumference line, druexy indicated.  I will try this thread for serving on the superb rigging line I just received from Chuck's Syren Modeling.  I will post the result.

 

 John, you didn't attach the link, but a fast copy of the words "En...rigging" got me here.  Thanks.

 

http://www.anmm.gov.au/webdata/resources/pdfs/endeavour/Signals94_pp02-11_Endeavourstandingrigging.pdf

 

Additional replies are much welcomed and appreciated.

 

Thanks again for all the replies,

Len

Edited October 9, 2013 by freewheelinguy

[jud]

John

Thanks for the reminder, been about 43 years since I have used any, couldn't remember what we called it. Marlin, Marlin, Marlin and Marlin. Bet I can remember it now for a minute or so.

jud

[Jim Lad]

Oops!  Sorry, Len.  Glad you found the link!

 

John

[dafi]

Len, I use the fly fishing line too for the serving with great effect as it is really thin.

 

One has to pay attention to one detail: The fly fishing line has no "safe" diameter like rope, but it falls flat (like dental floss).

 

This is very handy to serve thin ropes, as it does not add to the thickness which is most important in my eyes.

Used in this way the fly-fishing line has a slight glossy character, so it is advisable to still do some tweeking with wax, matt varnish or by other means.

 

For bigger ropes like stays and shrouds the fly fishing line needs to be laid to get a stable diameter and to achieve the wanted look. Depending on how many strands are used to lay this twine, one can very nicely fine tune the appearance.

 

also see

                                          #153                         

 

Cheers, Daniel

 

Thanks John & Len for the link to the article!!!

Edited October 10, 2013 by dafi

[dafi]

Small OT:

The article page 9 picture bottom right::

"Lower ends of shrouds turned and seized ready for the placement of the deadeyes."

 

HOW will the deadeyes be fitted in there?!?

There is the groove around on both sides and also  - in my understanding - the seizings were used to adjust the tension of the shrouds ?!?

 

XXXDAn

[realworkingsailor]

Dan, most likely the eye in the rope would be stretched a little and the deadeye hammered in with a mallet. The tension in the shrouds is adjusted with the deadeye lanyards, not the shroud seizings.

 

Andy

[Q A's Revenge]

Folks have had great success with fly fishing line and surgical suture line although the later is quite expensive.

Chuck, "Fly fishing line" could be one of any of hundreds of different products. Any chance you could give me a link to the type of line you have in mind. Many thanks! :-)

[Chuck]

I wish I could...I usually buy whatever I can find on EBAY cheaply.   I dont remember the brands off-hand.  If after it is shipped, I dont like th e look of it.....I usually give it to my fishing buddies.

 

I think Ed Tosti uses a particular brand if I remember correctly.  You may want to reach out to him or do a search of his build log of the 1:60 HMS Naiad 1797

 

The stuff he uses looks really nice.

 

Chuck

[dafi]

Dan, most likely the eye in the rope would be stretched a little and the deadeye hammered in with a mallet. The tension in the shrouds is adjusted with the deadeye lanyards, not the shroud seizings.

 

Andy

Thanks Andy fopr the mallet :-) The tension being fitted with the lanyards is what I meant (but mixed), but I was wondering about the seizings already in place. Is it as predictable how long the shrouds will be needed, in regards with all the building up on the mast head?

 

Chuck, "Fly fishing line" could be one of any of hundreds of different products. Any chance you could give me a link to the type of line you have in mind. Many thanks! :-)

These are the one I used, most of the offers in the web are same brand.

 

Daniel

[realworkingsailor]

Thanks Andy fopr the mallet :-) The tension being fitted with the lanyards is what I meant (but mixed), but I was wondering about the seizings already in place. Is it as predictable how long the shrouds will be needed, in regards with all the building up on the mast head?

 

 

I'm sure it's easy enough to measure off.

 

Andy

[popeye2sea]

The term applied to all the serving material that I have seen refer to " twine". So we are talking about small stuff. Seizing in my book would be made with somewhat thicker stuff

 

Incidentally. the Constitution pic shows what seem to be webbing straps - not something I have seen before - can anybody enlighten me on that subject ? Are they fastenings for a cover of some type?

 

Spyglass,  the web straps are gripes for the boats.  They hold the boats in.