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Posted

While this video is about the 1775 Battle of Bunker Hill, it describes two cases of just such an injury, possibly caused by nearby British naval gunfire. The same applies to period naval battles. You don't need to get hit by a cannon ball to get killed by it. 

 

 

Posted

I suspect that, rather than a "vacuum" causing the injury, it was the peak differential pressure of the shock wave caused by the ball's passage on soft tissues. The turbulent, low-pressure region associated with a high-speed projectile is directly behind the ball, so the "vacuum" itself would have little to do with causing the non-contact injury IMO.

Posted

  There seems to be disagreement on this topic.  During the war with Mexico, Thomas Jackson (later 'Stonewall' Jackson) had a cannon ball pass between his legs (spread in a stance) as he was rallying his men.  There were no effects.  I suppose if the 'miss' is less than an inch by a high velocity shot, there might be effects ... but I don't think the Mythbusters would take this chis challenge on - even with a ballistic gel simulation.

AI Overview
No, a solid cannonball passing close to a body will not cause injury; a person is only at risk of injury if the cannonball makes direct contact. 
  • Shockwave: The shockwave from a single, non-exploding projectile like a cannonball or bullet is not powerful enough to injure a person.
  • The "shockwave" of a near miss: The idea that a bullet or cannonball passing by can cause a shockwave injury is false. 
  • Historical reports of near misses causing death are likely due to misunderstandings.

Completed builds:  Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe

Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100;  Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100;  Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65

 

 

 

Posted
52 minutes ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

a person is only at risk of injury if the cannonball makes direct contact

Without daring to comment on the potential for "near miss" injuries, I'll suggest that, in naval combat, it was the "splinters" (which could be multiple feet in length) sent flying by the impact of roundshot on the ship's structure that  did most of the damage to human bodies.

 

Trevor

Posted
1 hour ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  There seems to be disagreement on this topic.  During the war with Mexico, Thomas Jackson (later 'Stonewall' Jackson) had a cannon ball pass between his legs (spread in a stance) as he was rallying his men.  There were no effects.  I suppose if the 'miss' is less than an inch by a high velocity shot, there might be effects ... but I don't think the Mythbusters would take this chis challenge on - even with a ballistic gel simulation.

AI Overview
No, a solid cannonball passing close to a body will not cause injury; a person is only at risk of injury if the cannonball makes direct contact. 
  • Shockwave: The shockwave from a single, non-exploding projectile like a cannonball or bullet is not powerful enough to injure a person.
  • The "shockwave" of a near miss: The idea that a bullet or cannonball passing by can cause a shockwave injury is false. 
  • Historical reports of near misses causing death are likely due to misunderstandings.


I think you can take modern equivalents into account as well. How many WW1, WW2, or even Vietnam war stories involve bullets whizzing by perilously close (and in some cases dinging off) helmets. Or dud artillery shells landing between soldiers’ feet (lots of those stories). All resulting in minimal to no injuries at all (maybe a strong need to change one’s pants).

 

Andy

Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati


Current Build:

USF Confederacy

 

 

Posted
43 minutes ago, realworkingsailor said:


I think you can take modern equivalents into account as well. 

 

In the 1915 shelling of Kavalla by RN monitors the Farman biplane acting as spotter was torn apart by turbulence from passing shells without actually having been hit. 

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A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin

current builds:

HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style

Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild 

French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold

Posted
21 minutes ago, bruce d said:

 

In the 1915 shelling of Kavalla by RN monitors the Farman biplane acting as spotter was torn apart by turbulence from passing shells without actually having been hit. 


Two different things, really; turbulence and pressure waves. 
 

Turbulence is the disruption of air as a result of something passing through it. The air can move dramatically in different directions. Yes it can be violent, even modern jets need to be careful of wake turbulence when operating near one another.
 

In your example the asymmetrical action of the turbulence, and the resulting aerodynamic forces acting on a relatively fragile airframe exceeded its structural strength. I very much doubt that the pilot was killed by the turbulence, or even the blast concussion from the fired gun (had he been foolish enough to be flying that close), more likely the abrupt stop when he unexpectedly returned to sea level sans aeroplane.

 

Have a look at the research done by John Stapp in the 40s and 50s (he’s the guy who rode the rocket sled “al fresco”):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stapp

 

Andy

Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati


Current Build:

USF Confederacy

 

 

Posted

Andy, both of the crew went into the Aegean trapped in the wreckage.

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A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin

current builds:

HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style

Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild 

French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold

Posted

The energy delivered to a target by the shock/wake system is of the same order as the energy loss due to drag over a short distance... which is fairly trivial for most practical cases especially when taken over an 'edge' rather than the total loss integrated around the entire surface. 

OTOH the blunt trauma from a 'spent' projectile incapable of perforating a blanket or cloak was sufficient to pulverise the rib cage and internal organs of a sleeping soldier in the lines of contravallation. He was found dead with no external wound, beyond a contusion where the rolling shot had hit him, and the shot lodged neatly in the hood of his cloak.
Others lost feet 'stopping' spent shot rolling slowly over the ground.

There is also of course a significant concentration of momentum in the muzzle field gasses - amounting to about 35-50% of the shot momentum, so blast injuries in the immediate vicinity of the gun is probable (combination of the bulk motion of the restrained propellant gasses to muzzle exit and the 'nozzle' expansion of the gasses after the shot clears plus an amount of blow-by ~ around 10% of the additional momentum is from the losses between shot and bore, but this does reduce the 'additional' work from *after* muzzle exit...

(Similar claims made about the 50 BMG can be demonstrated false by firing (from outside the muzzle field) between the triangles formed by a House of Cards - the wake/shock doesn't disturb the cards, and a hit (even a very glancing one) is required to knock them down).

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