HMS Bounty by Captain Al - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - Scale 1:48

[Captain Al]

DS, thank you much for your photos and offer of help.  I will undoubtedly be needing lots.  Great minds think alike.  I've planned from the start to add breadfruit to my empty pots (meaning the voyage is close to being commandeered).  Your build looks great. 

[Desert_Sailor]

I found out later  that my botany was off... Breadfruit plants are much more " broad leavey, "    then I portrayed...  I used wire armatures to hold  the greenery

[Mike Dowling]

Hi, frankly I think I hate you already!!! What a brilliant build. I hope mine turns out half as good as yours!!!

[Captain Al]

Mike, you got to be kidding (from one newbie to another).  I'm just flying by the seat of my pants and making things work when they don't want to.  The little things inside (like the holding well) are easy to get right.  The structural components, frames, beams, decks are my downfall even though in the end I think I'm making it all look OK in pictures.  I said way earlier that some of my "problems" may stem from bad materials in the kit (the false decks are particularly bad -- warped, and I believe even some of the frames were not cut with precision).  Despite all the efforts I've made to make sure things were perpendicular, level, right angled etc., I've had to shim a couple of the knees that take the beams in order to achieve a level beam, and I've also had to shim the beam itself (using a coffee swizzle stick from Starbucks) to allow the deck to lie flat and provide gluing surface.  Because the framing was done without the use of a jig (jigs are essential but most of the time I can't figure out how to make one or how they work), and possibly cause of bad factory cuts, the decks I've put in so far or am just getting ready to glue in have had to be "modified" a lot -- the indents (or whatever they're called) needing to be enlarged here and there.  I may be naïve but I don't think this should be necessary and it leaves some pretty big gaps between the framing and the deck edge.  I also think that fairing the frames and beveling them for planking is going to be a very "interesting" project.  I'm jealous of you if that step has been done with a fair degree of success.  Bottom line on this my first build is that I'm learning from it and doing the best I can.  I doubt it will end up a museum piece but it will show appreciation of the art of modeling.  And when I go onto my next one (like in a year or more) I will have a solid grounding of what works and what doesn't and what pitfalls to look for before even starting. I know I will read the plans a lot more carefully and not treat them as nice line drawings.  I've already begun to refer to them more and more when I have a question about spacing and positioning of parts (as in my earlier post re. the windlass stanchion). But if you are impressed, I will accept the compliment graciously and with humility.  I'm more impressed with your build, so we're even.  Two newbies having fun.  That's why we're doing it. 

[Mike Dowling]

Gosh! I didn't think you were a beginner as well - respect!!

I have to say the OcCre kit I am working on seems pretty well cut, I had to do a bit of 'adjustment' but nothing like your problems. My jigs so far consist of a lot of bulldog clips, a couple of heavy stones and some sanding blocks. Don't knock it if it works! As you say, planking is going to be a huge challenge. I don't like the method suggested in the instructions as it leaves a huge amount of patchwork at the end which seems wrong to me. It has been suggested to me that the use of some more filler blocks at the bow and stern might make the job easier. I am investigating this further! I have made quite a few non boat models before this with far less curves!! They seem easy in comparison. Never mind, it's a challenge and good fun really. I look forward to watching your progress, maybe we can learn from each other.

Good luck.

[Desert_Sailor]

Capt Al,

 

here's a simple trick to ensure your ribs are aligned .  I use a 3" plastic  adjustable clamp.  I take off the "lower jaw"  and I'm left with a perfect 90 deg alignment tool.   See pix: 

I'll use another clamp to hold the one end to the keel  and the other clamped to the frame/bulkhead and its a perfect 90 deg every time..

 

Curving the planks isn't too hard, either.. Get the "electric plank bender & jig" ...  soak your planks,  then use the iron to steam bend the planks to the right curvature or shape.. It does take practice so use scrap planks first  from an older kit.. Once you get the hang of it, no hull shape will intimidate you....

Edited March 11, 2014 by Desert_Sailor

[Captain Al]

Thanks for the tips DS.  I have seen that plank bender in my hobby store and have just been waiting til I actually need one.  That day is approaching.  Thanks also for trying to make it less daunting.  I don't have any scrap planks from an older kit.....this is my first.  But I think I have plenty of em.  That's one thing that AL does right (at least for mine); plenty of wood to spare.

[Captain Al]

Progress made on cut outs (holes) for the lower deck grates, hawse pipes, stairs, and masts. This two part decking makes everything a little bit trickier. Especially getting the center line lined up when planking them. My pictures will show that I've not been perfect but I am satisfied with the deck planking. As with the holding platform, I decided not to try to fill the trenails. I just drilled holes (used a #76 bit) blew the dust out of them. The varnish on the holding platform not only filled the holes but brought them out a lot. I don't know if I'll use that same technique on the more visible main deck but we shall see. For now I'm trying to decide whether to stain the deck before varnishing. Didn't on the hold platform, but this one is more visible (with the open frames). What color?? Only stain I have on hand is what I used for the frames. Moving forward, it took me two days and about 10 hours to complete these grates, but I think they turned out grate (ha ha). The trick was (I discovered) to use CA glue for the four corners so as to get it rigid and square, and then use a minute dab of Elmers in each of all the other joints. Most of the time was spent reducing them in size by 1 mm width. I have now learned not to assume that adding up all the dimensions of the grates, plus the inside frames (in other words following instructions and parts list) will guarantee something fits -- in this case the grating would not fit into the deck holes and had to be fixed. 18 mm wide grates would have worked. 19 did not. So that's where I stand for tonight. I'll stain, varnish and then glue in the decks, then put these grates in place and the other small deck ornaments and be ready to move on. I'm sure hoping the decks fit in well. The pictures shown are dry fitted. The decks themselves are warped a bit and will need clamping or weighting down onto the beams.

[Captain Al]

A word of explanation (and apology for out of focus shots).... notice some additions I've made to the beams (third and second to last photos).  The first one, which I call a joist, is in order to give those two parts of the two deck pieces that jut out between the two grates somewhere to sit and be glued down.  Otherwise only one edge of the piece had any support and I didn't like the feel of that.  The second to last photo shows three little knobs glued to the edge of the beams.  These are to support some things (at the moment I can't remember what) which were supposed to be stopped on the beam itself.  In measuring and testing I did not think that these pieces would hit the deck (due of course to my mis-aligned frames) and would then just slide down into the hold.  So just to be on the safe side I added these. 

 

I'm wondering about the ladder openings.  Nothing in the plans or instructions indicate any framing or molding around the opening.  I may be thinking too modern, but it would seem that there ought to be something more than raw deck planking.  I think I might add something just to hide the plywood false decks.

[Mike Dowling]

Hi CA, if it helps, on my model the stairwell holes are framed in the same way your grates are and as you say much better than just deck planking.

[Mike Dowling]

Sorry, me again!! I just tried to answer some of your questions but I put them on my build log instead of yours. I can't quite get the hang of system but the message is there if you don't mind looking.

[Captain Al]

Will do.  Same here re posting pictures etc.  I am trying to figure out how to put a caption or sentence beneath each picture rather than have them all run together.

[Mike Dowling]

^{Don't ask me, I seem to get it wrong every time!!!!}

[Mike Dowling]

Me again!! I have just been looking at you model again and you have got the same 3rd deck as I have but without the crew's quarters. The other difference seems to be that mine is internally planked between the two half decks. You might still be able to manage that if you really want to.

[Captain Al]

I answered this on your log but I'll repeat. Decided not to add anything that the kit doesn't call for. Unless of course its for strength or to correct some error (either mine or theirs).

[Dan Vadas]

Hi Al,

 

1. Leave the decks unstained - the supplied timber is as close to the "real" color as you'll get. Decks were usually made from some type of Pine.

 

2. Don't assume for a minute that the kit "frames" depict the ACTUAL framing of the Bounty. They are just Bulkheads with the middle cut out   . The REAL framing of a ship of this type is MUCH more involved - there are at least THREE TIMES as many frames on the "real thing". Same with the Deck Beams and Framing.

 

Check out THIS LINK to my Vulture for an idea of what the framing actually looked like.

 

The decking of the real ship wasn't supported by a sheet of ply, so feel free to add whatever supports you like under the decking - you'll be getting a lot closer to reality than the kit .

 

3. Regarding Ballast - here's a pic of the very same AL Bounty I built about 7 years ago (before MSW days). I used Aquarium pebbles which I bought from a pet supplies store (click the pic for an enlarged version) :

 

 

I am trying to figure out how to put a caption or sentence beneath each picture rather than have them all run together.

 

 

Take a look in THIS LINK for info on how to do that.

 

  Danny

[Mike Dowling]

I don't want to spoil somebody elses conversation but mine has 15 bulkheads! Surely that is enough?

[Dan Vadas]

I don't want to spoil somebody elses conversation but mine has 15 bulkheads! Surely that is enough?

 

Sorry Mike, not even close. Vulture is only 15 feet longer than Bounty and has about 60 full frames, plus 20 or so cant frames.

 

  Danny

[Mike Dowling]

^{OK , Sorry. I'll shut up and go away.}

[Captain Al]

Dan, thank you for your input.  I was not meaning to stain the top surface of the decks, but the ply underneath (which the real thing didn't have).  I would not have given it a second thought except for the fact that with the open hull design it is easy to see underneath these decks, and I don't like the pinkish color of this ply.  So I went ahead (just two minutes ago) and stained the underside.  A lot subtler or marine like, but still plywood.

 

I am so glad to hear from you and know that you are following this build from time to time.  I've already learned a great deal from you.  More so though, I hope you are feeling well and getting through your medical issues in stride.  You seem like the kind of guy who can face life's obstacles as they present themselves.  I faced a similar problem with a lymphoma node touching my spine.  Talk about pain.  But the docs do wonders now and I'm sure you're in good hands.  Be well my friend.

[Captain Al]

^{OK , Sorry. I'll shut up and go away.}

Please don't.

[Mike Dowling]

OK, I'll keep watching and learning!

[Mike Dowling]

By the way - I seem to have been promoted!!! Can't think why!

[Captain Al]

Updating my log.  It seems like forever.  I guess I'd rather be modeling than taking pictures and working on a computer.

From the looks of the pictures I last posted I  had completed building the grates for the lower deck and thought I could get that deck in place in a day or two.  Not.  My old nemesis warpage came to haunt  me and halt progress for more than a week.  I've complained about this before but now I really see the consequences.  I tried several times to flatten the false deck but couldn't.  So I decided just to plank it and install it and trust in glue to hold it down.

 

Taking Dan's advice I decided not to stain the deck and to varnish (urethane) it after it was installed.  I dry fit it and all seemed OK.  So I went ahead and glued her down using Elmers on the beams and the underside of the false deck where it would meet the beams.  I've always glued both parts when using white or yellow carpenters glue.  Maybe with these pieces being so small that isn't necessary, but I do it anyway.  Because of the warp here and there and because of all the cut outs for grates etc., I needed to us many many clamps and weights to get it sitting tight to the beams.

 

 

Coming back the next day I was ready to glue in the second half of the deck.  Both halves had fit well earlier when dry fitted, so I thought I was home free.  But thankfully I did not jump right in and glue it down.  First I thought I would check the masts to make sure they ran straight down through the openings and into the mast steps.  When I placed the 3 dowels into the holes I was dismayed.  First the mizzen and main did not run down squarely on top of the step, and second, the foremast would not even slide through the opening on the holding platform.  I was in for some interesting work.  To begin with I needed to do right away what I thought I would be doing many months from now -- that is cutting tenons into the lower 10 mm of the masts so they would fit into the rectangular openings in the mast steps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope I'm adding these photos correctly.

 

Well this work went  reasonably well.  I used several different files after finding that my Dremel didn't have an attachment that would work.  I thought about cutting and chiseling as I'd have done with large scale woodworking, but I didn't even try that.  So after cutting these tenons, I found that the masts sat pretty well and almost perpendicular.  I needed to ream out the holes on the top deck just a bit to lean the mast in the direction I needed to.  Later on Dominic would remind me that Bounty's main and mizzen have a slight rake to them.  Going back to the plans a second time (I had checked this out earlier and found no rake) I found Dom was correct re the mizzen (4 degrees to the best of my measurement) but not so on the main; the main and foremast stand erect.  But I'm pretty sure that I can put this rake into the mizzen with proper tensioning of the rigging.

 

I'm going to end this update here cause I want to post it and see if my pictures are coming in properly....

 

Edited March 19, 2014 by Dan Vadas

[Captain Al]

Well, it seems like I am getting both thumbnails and large photos into the post, so I am doing something wrong. I am going to resort to the simpler technique and attach the pics at the end of each section.

 

To make a long story short, I am satisfied that I have the masts running well down to the keel and into the mast steps. The moral of the story is still the same: don't do anything further until the frames are perfect and don't try to work with a warped deck. I believe all the of the misalignment of these mast holes (and they really weren't horrendously bad, just not perfect) was due to the adjustments I had to make to the first half of the lower deck to get that deck to lay down onto the beams. Many rebates had to be enlarged (probably to square with misaligned frames) and that in itself would be enough to throw it out of alignment. But I'm happy to say that all the fixes went well and I didn't break anything further and didn't ever lose my patience or temper (as I used to when I modeled at 12 years old).

[Captain Al]

I'm now waiting for the glue to dry on the second half of the lower deck.  Tomorrow I will add the adornments (mast hole rings, grates and hawse pipes, then give the deck 2 coats of verathane.  I would like to make those hawse pipes a little less shiny and bright than they are.  The real ones I'm sure were bronze, and they would have developed a green patina to them.  Any suggestions on how to "age" these little brass pipes?

 

One more picture I couldn't resist showing.  Here is the warp that has been my Achilles heel for a couple weeks.  As I speak it is being clamped down and weighted down and I hope to H the glue is strong.  BTW, which is actually stronger, CA or carpenters glue?  Anyway, tomorrow I will see.

 

 

[Dan Vadas]

BTW, which is actually stronger, CA or carpenters glue?

 

 

I have doubts as to the longevity of CA - Carpenter's glue will do the job VERY well .

 

BTW - I fixed the post above with the "Thumbnails" in it. To check out what I did, open the "Full Editor" on that post and note where the text for the pics is.

 

  Danny

[fifthace]

I agree with Danny, Carpenters glue will probably be better than CA for brute strength. Best way is to glue it down and clamp it and just forget about it for a day or so, should be fine.

 

The one thing that puzzles me with these open hull kits, as Mike has found out on his, is the internal decking never sits flush with the outside of the frames, resulting in an, albeit not really visible, gap between the edge of the deck and the interior face of the planking. I think it's something that would bug me

 

Stunning work so far though Al, look forward to seeing more.

[Mike Dowling]

I agree with the other guys. I find CA very useful for a 'quick fix' but carpenters glue gives a much better bond. Don't be afraid to thin it down a bit, I find that helps avoid spread when joints are tight. The other beauty of white glue is that it dries translucent.

Dom is right, the decks don't quite go to the edges of the bulkheads but I found I needed that space for the fairing.

Your work looks really good to me AL. I had some warp problems but not as bad as yours.

[Captain Al]

Well I'm glad I used the carpenters glue even before I posted the question.  I never use the CA over a large area such as all the beams and decking.  Just too afraid of having it run and get on my fingers.  I really like painting on the white glue and I do thin it somewhat with an eye dropper for control.  I was asking what really was a moot point since I'd already done it, but I did not know the answer.  I'm glad everyone including Dan supports using carpenters in such situations.  Its been on there now a full day with clamps, so I think I'll take off the clamps and see how she is.

 

As for the gaps between decking and frames....I didn't think that was inherent to open hull planked models.  I thought it was due to my ineptitude in installing the frames, or because the cutting of the deck ply was just not very good.  I filled most of them on the holding deck and will probably do the same on this lower deck, since I have to fill a very narrow space between the two halves of deck over about 3 inches aft of the main mast.

 

Thanks for your compliments.  Slow and steady can get it done.