HMS Bounty by Captain Al - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - Scale 1:48

[fifthace]

haha Al I was just jesting but thanks

Edited April 1, 2014 by fifthace

[Dan Vadas]

get yourself some really fine grade sandpaper and sand over the wood before fixing it in place.

 

 

Sandpaper alone won't get rid of all the "fluffies" - get a small tin of Sanding Sealer (Bunnings or hardware store) and paint that on first, then sand. The Sealer is totally clear and can be varnished over, or you can even use a final coat of it instead of varnish.

 

  Danny

[Mike Dowling]

^{There, you see, I told you you needed some dope!!!}

[Captain Al]

The old saying is that discretion is the better part of valor.  In the case of sanding down my cabins, it goes more like, discretion is the better part of fear.  I took the advice given above and began to gingerly sand the cabin surfaces.  I was using 400 grit cause its the finest I have and its raining and well that's what I used. The edges were fine but when I tried getting into the crevices and corners in the inside of the cabin I found I was putting too much pressure on the glued edges.  I have a tendency to exert too much pressure in sanding, cutting, filing etc., so I finally decided that I would live with fuzzies to assure I wouldn't be regluing these pieces tomorrow or ever.   The advice though was well taken.  I should have sanded the parts before gluing up.  In the future I will and especially with parts that will be more visible.

 

So I went ahead and varnished first coat and I think it'll turn out OK -- on the same scale as the holding well did.  The camera in close up magnifies things well beyond our unaided vision.

 

While waiting for varnish to dry I started building the pot racks.  Finally a simple job.  Just some sanding and, note, rounding the corners of the two racks.  There's no sharp corners on a ship/boat.  I notice that there are handle holes in the pots.  Most of the pictures I've seen don't show a rope handle.  I'd like to do them.  Would a brown cotton thread work well?  I'd also like to paint the pots some color.  Anyone have a suggestion as to what color?  I'd just stain them but I doubt stain will penetrate the slick surface of these pots.  And finally, do most builders glue in the pots or trust that the model won't ever get turned upside down.  They sit pretty secure in the rack, but would fall out if the ship turned turtle or we had a nice California earthquake.

[Dan Vadas]

Hi Al,

 

The rope handles would be an Off White color. Probably no need to stain the pots - they'd have been made from a light colored timber anyway. Glue them in - nothing worse than one or two falling out later when you can't get near the holes they came out of (which will of course be the most inaccessible ones ).

 

Are you going to put Breadfruit plants in them?

 

  Danny

[Captain Al]

Good thoughts Dan. I put some of my wife]s nail polish on one pot and I immediately decided against painting. It looked like a fire hydrant. As for the plants, I think I will. On another log (cannon fodder) I saw what he did and thought it looked good. But CF later said that breadfruit was more of a broad leaf plant. So I've been contemplating how to make it look real. Do you think it would work to lacquer some real foliage? I don't know what others may be using as soil, I was thinking a dab of brown silicon caulk that would dry semi solid but stiff enough to hold the plants up. I'll probably get my wife to thread those little holes; she's a professional seamstress and pattern maker. Thanks as always for your interest. I truly appreciate it.

[Dan Vadas]

Hi Al,

 

Here's a pic of real Breadfruit so you get an idea of the shape of the leaves :

 

 

I made the ones for my Bounty from thin aluminum sheet and painted them to suit. I used brown Plasticine (Silly Putty?) to bed them into the pots. You could use appropriately shaped real foliage, but make sure to use dried stuff. I don't know if anything of the appropriate shape and scale is available.

 

  Danny

[Capt.Fisher]

Thanks for welcome words Al.

Yes, this was my first post and definitelly not my last ;-)

I joined in September, when I got the Bounty as a birthday present. Then, as you can guess... I lost the password,,,, Besides, i couldnt find an AL Bounty fresh thread...

Yes, i saw other guys work on Bounty and really appreciate what everyone is doing. But what is most interesting to me is exactly the AL kit. It's good to have a chat with someone who reads the same drawing, touches the same pieces of timber, faces exactly the same problems as yours.. Pity we have a big time difference and chat will go slow, but as you said before - NO RUSH, right? 

Soon I will open my own build log, that decided. I just need some time to read about forum rules, uploading pics, etc. And yes - time is an issue for me!! Unlike others all I can afford to spend in my beautifil workshop is 3-5 hours a week... And for writing the log I have to steal from my working time   (the good news is that I do not have a boss to fear of  )

See u guys!

[Capt.Fisher]

Hi Al,

 

Here's a pic of real Breadfruit so you get an idea of the shape of the leaves.......

 

Hi guys,

 

Here's a pic of a 3-months old breadfruit tree. I believe that was more likely to be their appearance at the time of transportation

[Captain Al]

Hey thanks guys for the foliage pics. And really the funny thing is that the plants were on board only about 24 days from the time of leaving Tahiti to the time of the mutiny. I am going by what I saw in the movie where they tossed the plants immediately. In the movie version it was the plants themselves and the water that was denied the crew in favor of the plants that was the tipping point for the mutiny. But history also says the crew just got real used to the life style of the Polynesians and that was all there was to it. Interesting psycho drama. As for reproducing these.... as you say Dan, the problem with real foliage is scale. Right now our azaleas come as close to having the right size leaf but even they are way too big. The color and texture match up well with the fatsia japonica, but those leaves are like 8 inches wide. I'm going to try to cut up one of these into small bits just big enough to include a vein. I think I will spray them with lacquer rather than drying them (which I fear will lose their color). If that doesn't work, Dan, your tin foil sounds good, as does the silly putty which would be a bit less messy to work with than silicon caulk.

[fifthace]

Look forward to seeing how you represent the plants.

I think when, IF, I build this one I might do her as she was prior to departure...it's easier

 

Can't wait to see some more progress on this one, come on chop chop

[Capt.Fisher]

Come on Al, we want to see....

Show something

[Captain Al]

Coming right up. Stay tuned for another fifteen minutes or so while I get my photos off the camera.

[Captain Al]

Well, just to show that my time isn't totally wasted in theoretical mish mash, I will describe my progress and post photos as well.

 

The last major post on my build log saw me complete the lower deck cabin and just start work on the stairway and the breadfruit plants. I was unsure whether to put some greenery into the pots as Cannon Fodder had done. I tried several different ideas and none worked well and all of them were too much work for too little payback. So I opted for the pre Tahiti Bounty. But to give the model a little more umph and authenticity I added rope handles to the buckets. This was a good learning experience in the use of a needle and thread and making tiny knots. My wife taught me everything I now know.

 

Next I went for the stair way. The only difficulty I encountered here was getting the stringers to pop out of their template. The laser cuts didn't go all the way through. The tips of two out of the ten broke off. I was able to repair one with CA glue but the other was a goner. Into the scrap heap. Thinking I would need to make one of my own, I pondered this until, lo and behold I discovered that only 4 stairs (and therefore 8 stringers) are needed. So I now have an extra stringer. Having built the little stair case I thought that it had very little gluing surface to it, so I added a footer which would glue directly to the deck. Then I thought about building a railing and/or bannister as well cause I thought there was no way the real ship would not have had one. I experimented with different size dowels and square timber for the stanchions but I could not find anything I could build with my current array of drill bits -- either too small or too large. So I opted to use the deadeyes that are supplied. For the rope I found my old sailing ditty bag full of odds and ends of waxed twine and assorted needles. Good find. The result of my work can be found on the following pictures. I still struggle to put captions and text on the pictures, so I resort to all the pictures at the end of the post.

[Captain Al]

So thinking I was now pretty much done with the interior and I could move on to installing the main deck beams and planks, I discovered that I was facing the biggest challenge to date:  "the horror;  the horror."  Fans of Brando will excuse my trite use of his words.

 

I'm testing the main deck and wondering how much "adjustment" I will need to make to fit it cleanly into the slots.  When I lay it on top of the frames (without beams) I find to my dismay that not enough care went into the framing.  There are many frames that are (1) too high on one side and too low on the other, and (2) not spaced precisely.  If I were to lay the deck down it would more resemble moguls on a ski slope.  I know I have to fix this problem and I have been mulling over the process I would use.  I recognize that the process of fixing these frames should have been employed in installing them in the first place.  I should have not trusted the fact that they slipped into their slots cleanly, fully and at right angles to the keel.  I should have read the plans and noted the spacing and their heights and taken steps to make sure they conformed.  I was in a hurry and I'm paying the price now.

 

So first off I've gone to the plans and measured the height from the bottom of the keel to the point where the beam will fit into each one.  I went through a laborious process of measuring what the actual, in place, height of my frames are.  I thought I'd compare the two figures to know how much to add in the way of shims if too low and how much to sand or cut off if too high.  Then I realized it made no difference.  Better to simply set the model on its keel, perfectly level side to side, and make a mark where the top should be, showing where I needed to cut or sand to.  For those that are too low and have nowhere to mark, I will use the other method to add a little.  As for the spacing, which isn't all that bad, I might cut spacers to the precise length and set them between the frames.  That will kill two birds with one stone, giving me a little more surface to glue a plank to.  But on the open side of the ship I don't know how it will look, and don't know if it will be necessary to keep them in once the deck is down. 

 

I hope all this works out satisfactorily and I can get the deck on without using a sledge hammer.  And, as shown in the pic below, I know there is a bow to the keel itself which will present problems in planking.  But that is for another day.  I welcome any and all suggestions as to methods to use in cutting, sanding and adjusting these frames.  Another great find in my garage is a little hand vise that dates from the 1950s when my Dad was into model railroading.  Set into my table vise I can position it to hold each frame secure while I sand, cut or file.

[Capt.Fisher]

Hi Al,

 

Well, that IS a trouble, I know...Sorry to hear that. 

What I did at the very beginning was lay the frames and the main deck in place without gluing them, just to see how they fit to each other. It was a sleaky task, believe me    But having them put together I could see which frame needed plus or minus correction, and marked the exact joining level on the keel. Only after that I proceded with glue, according to the marks.

BUT!   Thoudg this tricky operation saved me discremancies in vertical (up and down), it did not help me a lot in horisontal (in and out). So when I came to the stage that you are at no, I was furious to see that some of the frames stick out of the main deck line, while others are way too in... This lead to some extra sanding and filling. The good news is that the planking hides this, so it is not a major trouble

 

Anyway, I like your precise work! Your stairs railing looks nice, though I did not see such in The Anatomy. And most of all I liked your grating. Mine looks so rough and hairy compared to yours  I have to put some more efforts when I make the main deck ones

 

Good luck with the frames+main deck!

[Mike Dowling]

Gosh Al, I do see your problem. I can't think of any easy solutions but I wanted you to know that I do sympathise.

I am sure someone out there with far more experience of boats will have some ideas. I know it doesn't help you at all but this is not a problem I encountered at all. I am surprised it didn't show up more when you put your second deck in.

Anyway as Capt Fisher says and I totally agree your detailed work is superb. I am still surprised that there is so much difference in two kits that are supposed to be of the same boat.

Anyway, I am sure with your skill and ingenuity and a bit of help from others you will find a way around the frames. Good luck.

[kannon]

I am also building the AL Bounty but just at the starting stage.As with others following,I am a novice and I thank you Captain,Mike and all the others who are contibuting .Your inputs ripple out to a broader network.

[Captain Al]

Well I'm moving along with my solution to the frame issue. After innumerable and painstaking measurements, finding that the tops of some frames didn't conform precisely to the plans and weren't level from starboard to port, I decided not to try to achieve perfection. I decided the best way to proceed would be to just make sure the sheer of the deck line (ie the tops of the frames) was nice and smooth, not radical and not bumpy, and looked much like it should. If I could achieve this I wouldn't worry that at various points the deck sat a few millimeters to high or low compared to the plans. After viewing both sides of the ship I decided I would take the starboard side as my starting point, and the center frame would be the low point as it should be. I was surprised to see that of the 14 other frames, only 3 or 4 needed shims or a bit of sanding to give them the proper (or a good) sweep. I think the tops of the frames needed to be slightly beveled anyway to account for the upward curve of the deck from its midpoint to fore and aft. After making these adjustments on the starboard side, I then needed to level them to the port side. I thought this would require cutting or shimming almost all of them but found only about five needed it. And they were all the aft frames. So I have proceeded to shim those on the port side. I've put on the beams and deck without gluing or pinning, and I think its pretty good. There are two frames that still need some radical shims which I'll quickly apply today. Then I'm going to just take a deep breath and nail down that sucker of a deck.

 

I'm looking for advice on the best way to hold down the deck while gluing. And what type of glue is best to use in this operation. Instructions say to work from bow to stern. If I use PVA glue and put it on all beams and frames at once, then start pressing down the deck from bow to stern, I think it will take so long the glue will be too dry when I reach the stern. But there will be no way to reach into the ship to apply glue to the beams when the deck is on (ie working progressively). I'll be able to reach the frames to glue the tips, but not very far into the beams. The weights you can see in the pictures below work pretty well. Using those I could probably work quickly enough to glue all the frames and beams and position the deck and then place the weights on, giving me time to pin it in "springy" spots. Any suggestions? Do most of you apply glue across the beams?

[fifthace]

Hiya Al.

 

PVA tends to allow you a good few minutes before it begins to bond, ample time to get everything held down before it starts to dry. What I would do is mark with a pencil the centre line on the deck of each beam, and pre-drill this. The dryfit the deck and drill a little into each frame as well.

 

Then apply the glue, put the deck in place and use a pin pusher or jewelers/pin hammer to put the pins in place. If you work fluidly and smooth enough you shouldn't have too much trouble getting everything pinned/weighted down before the PVA starts to set. Then leave it a good 24 hours and it should all be ok.

 

A tip, if you are short of weights, then large empty coffee jars filled with water, or even better sand, make great weights!

[Captain Al]

Dom, are you saying to predrill the holes across the deck where the pins will go? Rather than putting the deck in place and then starting the pinning process? I was thinking of the latter, but I can see how its a lot easier to do it on a flat surface, and it would mean getting those pins in a lot quicker. So you would drill along the lines drawn (center line of the beams), then put down the deck and drill through those holes into the beam a bit. Then take the deck off and apply the glue. Then put the deck down, weight it down to the beams and frame tips, and then put in the pins. My only worries would be that I couldn't see the drilled holes very well cause they're so small. But that would be true if I waited to drill them and went one pin at a time. The other worry is that the slightest movement from when the holes were driven into the beams through the predrilled deck holes, and where they would line up when the deck was replaced with glue. The very slightest difference in placement would throw every tiny hole off.

[fifthace]

Best way is to drill your holes as you said, but use a diameter one size down from the size of your pins. Then you can sit the pins in the deck ready then hammer them into the beams after you get it in place. The slightly smaller holes should hold the pins enough to allow this.

[Mike Dowling]

I have sent you a PM.

[fifthace]

If you can avoid doing so, don't hammer the pins all the way in. As long as they are tight enough to hold the deck in place while the glue cures that's the important bit. You can then use side snips to nip the heads off so they won't foul the planking later.

[Captain Al]

Mike, didn't receive any PM either via direct email or here on msw.

 

Dom, another thing that works great for weights is bird shot in small bags or bottles or cans.

[Dan Vadas]

Hi Al,

 

My best advice to you is - DON'T USE THE PINS, other than three or four to position the deck and stop it slipping. They do nothing that PVA alone can't do, except complicate things. Use spring clamps to hold the deck down (wooden clothes pegs work fine, you can modify them in many ways to suit special applications).

 

Rubber bands around the hull is another way of holding the deck down. Or a combination of a few of the methods suggested.

 

If you want to Treenail the deck that can be done well after the glue has dried.

 

  Danny

[Captain Al]

Sound advice Danny.  No way will I argue with that.  I have a question for you.  Since you did the A.L. Bounty you are qualified to answer this -- and please be brutally honest, cause I expect nothing less.  What should I have done up front to avoid all these "adjustments" and work arounds?  Are they all due to my imprecision in laying in the frames or is it possible that bad laser cutting or warping (after all, the kit sat in the box for six years in a garage) caused some of it?  I have probably learned more from making all these adjustments, and have come to realize aspects of modeling that I had never even thought of, so it hasn't been for nothing.  And in the end, I still hope to construct something worth while.

[fifthace]

Danny can I ask how using pins would complicate fixing a deck in place?

 

I have found they can help to hold the deck in position laterally while the weights hold it down against the rib tops. Unless you have perfectly aligned rib tops and corrosponding slots in the deck piece this can only be a good thing no ?

 

Obviously I've not built this version myself so can only yeild to your experience, but as I am planning on building this one later in the year any information on why certain things are to be avoided would save me mistake time when I do come to build her.

[Capt.Fisher]

Nice progress, Al.

If you ask me, do not give much thought on up/down discrepancies. Just make it tight! The deck itself is relatively firm, so it will form an even curve, even if slightly wrong. This should not lead to major complications.

BUT please do pay additional attention on LEFT/RIGHT declinations! Thats where your hull will be formed later on and a couple of frames in the wrong left/right position could make your life difficult!

[Dan Vadas]

Hi Al,

 

You're doing quite well with your "workarounds". I'd say 90% of the problems that you have encountered are due to some "not so good" laser cutting by AL - I had exactly the same issues with mine. You're on the right track .

 

Dominic - I'm not saying DON'T use pins if they are actually going to do something .... just don't RELY on them to permanently hold down the deck. PVA does that job very well. The pins are only a temporary thing to hold the deck in place, or DOWN in certain area if no other way can be used, until the glue dries. They can be easily pulled out with a good pair of sidecutters before any planking takes place.

 

Which brings me to another point Al - don't try planking the upper deck until it is in place. It may seem an easier way to do it first as it will be easier to sand flat without bulwarks getting in the way, but the cutouts around the frames will be all over the place and you'll finish up with large gaps in places (at least I did at first on this particular kit).

 

  Danny