HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class

[druxey]

Nice going. It's amazing how roomy these tops were. Heaving them into place must have been quite an affair. The radiating battens usually have a 'scooped' contour. I assume these have yet to be shaped?

[AON]

Some references showed scooped while others seemed to be a simple taper.

 

Presently they are tapered.

[AON]

To be more specific

TFFM section 15 shows concave as are Greg's accompanying 3D images.

Historic ship models page 223 show the same.

TAONS (HMS Victory) page 174 shows tapered.

 

Did Mr Longridge simplify it?

 

I'll chew on it a bit.

Would David and Greg lead me off course?

I think not.

 

 

 

[druxey]

I'm always a little suspicious of the accuracy of the AOTS series! I believe that Longridge shows scooped battens.

Edited July 3, 2021 by druxey

[allanyed]

The drawing on page 174 in Longridge shows tapered battens and he also uses word tapered in describing them.    I have no idea if he was correct or if there were indeed variations from ship to ship as there are from source to source.

Allan

[AON]

I am presently trying to determine the number of shroud slots in a 3rd rate main mast platform.

 

Steels table reads 4 pair but 12 deadeyes.

All details below that support 4 pair.  Were the other 4 deadeyes spares?

 

Vanguard models show 6 pair.

Bellona (the book) has 5 pair.

 

Taking a break.

 

[druxey]

Interesting, Alan. I thought that this might be a typo, but, on checking the other tables in Steel, I see that all ships down to  64-gun size have 4 'extra' deadeyes and four shroud pairs. The 64 has 2 extras and rates below do no have any excess deadeyes. The main top for a 74 shows an outline of the top only and the 36-gun ship shows four slots a side (Plate 5, Volume I).

[AON]

Thank you Druxey.

I'm guessing it is four pair... but then wonder why Vanguard kit has six?

This may never have an answer.

I should double check museum models on line just to feel better about it all.

[druxey]

Well, Yarmouth, 1745 has original standing rigging (5 shrouds a side!), but most NMM models have been re-rigged over time. Others of the 60 to 74 gun size all seem to have 5 a side as well. Draw what conclusions you may.

[AON]

YIKES 😮

[AON]

I see on the original rigging warrant for HMS Monarch (1765), a 3rd rate, 74 guns, main top mast had 6 pairs of shrouds and 12 dead eyes (both hand written in the columns).

 

[druxey]

Take your pick! At least an even number of shrouds means that no cont splicing will be required.

[AON]

Seen this word in the TFFM.

We called it a cut splice.

 

I'd also noted in Steels what the "valley" between twisted strands was called.

I'm too much of a gentleman (in my own mind) to repeat the word in public or on a forum.

 

Those crazy sailors.

 

[druxey]

That's right, this is a family oriented site! The Bowdlerlized versions will do. (Look him up.)

[AON]

I did that when I saw the word from TFFM

😮   😉

[AON]

 

Main mast platform shroud deadeye slots.

As no sources seem to agree and having chewed this over for days, and looking at it logically, I've made a decision.

 

Four.  Exactly what Steels tables read.

 

I looked at the distance the deadeyes were spaced between, then divided this by 3, 4 and 5 to get the possible interval distance for 4, 5 and 6 deadeyes.

I then subtracted the size of the deadeye to get the physical gap dimension between deadeyes.

Thought about how much space a sailor might need to climb up.

Took my pencil template and penciled in the location of 4, 5 and 6 deadeyes.

How did they relate to the location of my stiffening battens.

Considered how a greater number of shrouds would reduce the footing clearance at the dead end of the shrouds.  This last bit was brought to my attention by a member of our local club as I reviewed my thought process with him.

 

Six was too much.  Five was a possibility.  Four ticked all the boxes.

 

Now I need to figure out the number of holes for the crowsfeet.

I've seen 20 and 18 for this platform... and just now 30!

I've decided on 18 simply because when laid out the spacing works and the look of it is pleasing.

 

I'll be drilling these holes and making my stanchions now.

Edited July 8, 2021 by AON

[druxey]

I think one needs an odd number of holes for crowsfeet, or it won't work out!

[AON]

Yes.

I read that in TFFM and after rethinking drilled 23 holes.

[AON]

Below is a photo of the holes and slots done.

The fore part of the deck is not quite as pretty as I had hoped for as I moved two battens and alcohol swabbing and scraping to remove the glue residue didn't quite clean up as nicely as I had imagined it would.

I'll get the aft railing done next and attempt a repair up forward.

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by AON

[dvm27]

You could always blacken the top. It's authentic and hides a lot of imperfections (I know from experience).

[AON]

My intention was to not paint anything but possibly the Wales, Figurehead, and a few other embellishments.

 

I guess we will need to keep that door cracked open!

🤔

[AON]

Did a few different things yesterday.

 

Got two more frames glued, I'll be sanding the chocks down to be flush with the timbers, drilling the bolt holes and adding the bolts today.

 

Made my main mast top rail and stanchions.  I've seen support stanchions square with fancy turned parts, or square with flutes, or square with chamfers, or round iron bars.  All had iron grips at the top that the wooden rail slipped into.  I decided to do the latter.  I used bamboo and a draw plate to get them down to size.  The rail grips were blackened bond paper glued to the three sides (not the top).  The stanchions were also blackened with black permanent marker.   Both the platform and rail were drilled.  I sharpened the top end of each stanchion with my tiny mechanical pencil lead sharpener so they would poke into the glued drilled pocket on the underside of the rail, and put a dab of glue on the foot end of the stanchion.  They were assembled and held for the longest time until the glue held up.

 

 

   

 

The tops are not glued to the trees in the above picture.  I won't be doing that for some time yet.

I'll be marking the mast bolt locations, drilling, and adding the bolts to the mast assembly today (monofilament fishing line).

 

I then pulled out my rudder that I'd made some time ago and added pintles and banding to it.  Once again using blackened bond paper.

I used 0.04" copper wire for the pintles.  Drilled snug fit holes in the forward face of the rudder just above the pintle/gudgeon pockets (where the banding goes).  Filed a point on one end of the wire (nail like) and inserted it (pointed end) into the  rudder.  Gave it a few gentle knocks with a tack hammer to set it, then bent it over with miniature pliers.  These were blacked with permanent marker.  The banding was added which covers the hole.

Today I will do a test to add faux bolt heads with drops of Weld Bond glue applied with a pointed applicator to the blackened paper.  As it dries clear I imagine the black colour will come through but a "bolt head bump" will be visible.  I will post photos after the job is done.

Edited July 12, 2021 by AON

[AON]

For those interested... My main mast platform and trees were made from measuring images found on steels plate 3.

 

I searched high and low to find information on the size of the foremast and mizzen mast platform (tops).

On Saturday, at the Chicago NR&MS club virtual meeting I was told to look in Steels Mast Making Vol 1.

This was where I found the plates and I had looked before but could find nothing on the platform (tops).

 

It ends up I simply could "see the forest for the trees"!

There on page 25/26 was a description of the sizes of the timbers for the trees.  The platform sits on the trees and so would be made to suit them.

I was searching for the platform when I should have been looking for the trees!

[AON]

I was called away... so to finish the last post:

 

Trestle Tree

Length = 1/4 the length of the Top Mast

Depth = 1/2 the Top Mast diameter

Thickness = 2/3 x the Depth

 

Undersides snaped (tapered) at each end

One end 1 and a 1/2 x the depth; other end 1 x the depth, within the ends

Snapes are lined to 1/2 the depth of the trestle tree and rounded to a sweep at the ends

The lower outer edge is chamfered the full length

The lower inner edge is chamfered to the cross trees

Chamfered on the undersides

The longest snapes are the foremost ends of the main trestle trees and the aft ends of the foremast trestle trees

(nothing mentioned about the mizzen mast!)

 

Cross Trees

Length = 1/3 the length of the Top Mast less 6"

Breadth = thickness of the Trestle Trees

Depth = 2/3 the Breadth

 

Tapered (snaped) at each end on the underside to 1/4 the length of the cross tree, from the end to 1/2 the depth, and round the ends with a sweep

 

 

[AON]

and to continue...

 

Main Caps

Length = 4 x the diameter of the Top Mast plus 3"

Breadth = 2 x the diameter of the Top Mast plus 2"

Depth = 4/9 x the Breadth

 

Fore Caps

Length = 4 x the diameter of the Top Mast plus 2"

Breadth = 2 x the diameter of the Top Mast plus 1"

Depth = 4/9 x the Breadth

 

Mizen Cap

Length = 4 x the diameter of the Top Mast plus 1"

Breadth = 2 x the diameter of the Top Mast

Depth = 4/9 x the Breadth

 

so I am ready to make my Main Cap.

[AON]

So here is the test with weld bond glue to simulate bolt heads with a thank you to John Cairns of our local Niagara Region club for demonstrating this technique to create shapes on small parts (i.e. insignia like a royal cypher on a gun barrel)

Test wet and dry...

   

 

Here it is on the rudder ... up close and personal.  It looks much better from 12 inches away!

Rudder wet and dry and full view.

 

 

 

The great thing is I can wipe it off when wet and do it again, or when dry (hours or weeks later) I can easily add to it.

 

[bruce d]

1 hour ago, AON said:

this technique to create shapes on small parts (i.e. insignia like a royal cypher on a gun barrel)

Is there a demo of this exciting concept anywhere? It sounds like just what the doctor ordered.

[AON]

There is no video demonstration.  The link below is to our local club web page BLOG section for May 2019.  John gave a live presentation and the blog (with a few photos) explains what he showed us.

 

https://modelshipwrightsofniagara.weebly.com/monthly-meeting-blog/archives/05-2019

[flyer]

Hi Alan

 

Thank you for sharing that great idea. I had to try it out on my Bellerophon's rudder and it definitely looks better than a line of holes.

As always your ship and her details are outstanding.

 

Cheers

Peter

[AON]

Thank you Peter.

As a novice myself I really appreciate connecting with other modelers to discover how others do stuff... and I am always happy to share.