Bounty by Mike Dowling - FINISHED - OcCre - 1/45

[fifthace]

haha Al it's a liquid, usually, you brush it onto tissue paper once it has been fixed to the frame of an aircraft and when it dries it hardens to an almost plastic-like substance, although not as strong, but it is incredibly light which makes it ideal for use in model planes.

 

Plus it stinks!

[Mike Dowling]

^{I tell you , procrastinate is rather a long word even for a Thursday!!! However, no one has said that tissue and dope isn't a good idea. The other sort of dope I may well need if I give in to planking the beast!!!}

[Cannon Fodder]

I've read if you stare long enough at the planks and then the model, they start to apply themselves. Maybe you can independently verify this theory?

[Mike Dowling]

I am trying very, very hard to verify this already. By the way, good old dope, apart from use on model aircraft is an excellent sanding sealer and a matt finish laquer for all sorts of models. You just need to keep a window open when using it or it works like the other kind of dope as well!!! Hey, keep the windows shut and enjoy!!!

[Captain Al]

Thanks all you dope heads for bringing me up to speed.  I just finished gluing in half of my lower deck (pictures will follow soon on my own build log) and if valium qualifies as dope, please send me some.  I knew the warpage of the ply was going to be my Achilles heel.  I had to use like 20 clothes pins, five C clamps and six weights (from my wife's knitting machine) to make the whole thing sit tight on the beams.  I was going to do both halves  at once but found it impossible cause I have clamps on the inside center line.  Probably better anyway to let it all dry and then make a go of the second half (the open side should be easer; more flexible).  I continue to wonder and ask: is there a tried and true method of flattening out a piece of warped ply?  I tried wetting and clamping between two pieces of flat wood.  No success.  Maybe not wet enough?

[fifthace]

You need a few hot days, a hosepipe and two paving slabs.

 

Hose the ply down so it is completely saturated, lay the soaked ply on one slab and place the other on top and leave it to bake in the sun for a day or so until bone dry.

 

If it is still warped after that....um....get some more ply and cut a replacement.

Edited March 14, 2014 by fifthace

[Mike Dowling]

^{Seriously though, I have found that this plywood rubbish only seems to warp on one side at a time. I have managed a couple of times to unwarp (is that a word?) by letting it dry completely, damp the opposite side and then weight it until dry. I have found that wetting it too much can cause delamination of the ply and them you do have to start again.}

^{I am guessing but it has happened to me that if you use white glue (PVA) for the planking on decks it can make the ply a lot wetter than you think so, I have used dope (or cellulose sealer if you prefer) to seal the ply first. I realise that is absolutely no help if you have already done the planks but it might be handy in the future.}

[Mike Dowling]

HELP!!! I thought that I was OK with my fairing but before I get in a right state can I please have some expert opinion on these photos. I think maybe I should remove quite a bit more wood to sharpen the back more and I wonder if I should take enough off the last bulkhead for it to meet the second deck. I have done my best to show you what I mean in the pics. 

 

Also for the pleasure of Cannon fodder there are a couple of pics of my bulwark that snapped. Now I have repaired it I think it will pass muster?

 

[fifthace]

First time I have had a proper look at your decking, really very impressed.

 

I wonder if I could trouble you for your exact method, including how you simulated the caulking?

 

I have tried many different methods with an ok result, but not great like this.

 

 

As for your question on the fairing, the best way is to use some balsa wood to fill those gaps on the last bulkhead, and sand them to the contours of the frames until you can get a plank to lay smooth and flush.

 

I assume the bulwarks get planked with veneer? If so, then sand the joins reasonably smooth and they will be fine. (Personally I hate pre-fabricated bulwarks for the very reason of them breaking when bending )

Edited March 14, 2014 by fifthace

[Mike Dowling]

_{Hi and thanks so much for post and the compliments. Re the planking, when I have cut the little beasts to length I run down both sides with pencil holding 10 - 12 at a time. I have always stuck them on with white (PVA) glue literally one at a time. I know it's a bit lengthy and boring but I like the result. Again I just use pencil to simulate the nailing and when done I give the whole lot 2 coats of good old dope!!}

 _{Re the fairing. Can you have another look at my pics for me as my concern is that at the transom end particularly I think I still have it far too thick on the false keel especially by the time it is planked. I am also not sure that there should be gaps between the deck and the planking. I realise that normally this wouldn't show but with the monster having one 'open' side to the hull it might. Maybe I am just being too fussy?}

_{Yes the bulwark was ghastly ply, hence the snap but I did manage to bend it very carefully with the help of some tape to hold the break. Once I had bent the lining strips the glue for them solved my problem. Yes the outside will be veneered in the end and I don't think it will show at all.}

[Cannon Fodder]

If it were me I would fill the stern as previously described with balsa or basswood. It will also help you fair the bullheads in the region.

[Mike Dowling]

Hey CF, did you like my repair?

I have balsa on order already but what on earth is a bull head, and don't tell me it's something on the end of a male cow!!!

[fifthace]

Mike the gaps between the decks and the planking is common. In normal cases no it wouldn't be visible, even with the side open, from what I can tell, unless you stick a mini camera with light in after she is finished there is no way that area is going to be visible.

 

Thanks for the description, the pencil and several at a time is pretty much the method I found the best, although you seem to have developed it further than I have been able to. I also cut to length and attach one at a time, however I use cyano purely for speed, although being quick is essential, I have come a cropper once or twice lol

[Mike Dowling]

Thanks for that matey!!  I wonder if the oozing PVA helps with the overall effect? I just get so fed up with sticking myself to the model with CA!!!

[fifthace]

haha yeh it can be a pain.

 

I notice you're in gods country too, do you have a Home Bargains near you? Locktite Superglue Gel, normally £5 in the shops, £1 a pop! I stock up on the stuff every time I go shopping! And because it is a gel it has great small planking gap filling properties, (fill the gap with it, and quickly sand the area with a coarse paper...the sawdust collects in the gel and fills the gap and it's hardly noticeable).

 

You also get a few seconds manoeuvring time as well. One tip though, when first opening sometimes the tube itself twists when screwing the cap on for the first time, so I pierce with a map pin, and then use a map pit in the nozzle instead of the normal lid, which ALWAYS ends up blocking itself.

[Cannon Fodder]

I am going to blame autocorrect on that one. Bullhead that's funny!

I did like the repair job. Did you not soak the plank enough before attempting the bend?

[Mike Dowling]

No we don't have a home bargains! Too far North I guess but I will keep an eye open for your magic glue.

[Mike Dowling]

I didn't get a chance to soak anything - it broke just cutting it out!

[shihawk]

Did you start the planking yet??????

[Bindy]

Hi Mike,

 

I haven't experienced planking or warping yet myself so I really haven't been able to offer any help or advice to your dilemmas.

 

BUT, I do have to agree that your decking looks fantastic!  I tried the pencil and white glue method myself but yours looks so much better!

[Mike Dowling]

Thanks Bindy, nice to hear from you again and no shihawk I haven't started yet. I am waiting for some balsa to do a bit of bulkhead filling before I start!

[AntonyUK]

Hi Mike.

Another interesting build

I wonder if the oozing PVA helps with the overall effect? I just get so fed up with sticking myself to the model with CA!!!

I would say NO to the Oozing glue bit . Any excess glue soaked into the wood and will affect the varnish,stain and even Dope

 

All the best.

Regards Antony.

[Captain Al]

Mike, have you tested your masts lately?  I found (thankfully in time) that with all the manipulation I was doing to fit the second deck in that when I went to put the masts down through this second deck and then through the holding platform and into the mast step that I was off by a bit on two of them.  As I said, thankfully I haven't put down the second half of the second deck yet so I still have pretty good access to the holes that I have to work on.  I had to ream out the mizzen mast hole in the holding platform (used sandpaper wrapped around a chopstick), same for the main mast hole in the second deck (though with the second half of that deck not yet on it was only a half hole to ream out).  I am still having a hard time getting the masts to sit perpendicular in all planes to the keel, but what I think the final answer will be is that I am going to take a bit of wood off the last 8 mm of the mast itself.  I have to square off the mast down there anyway (does your model necessitate that?) to get the round peg (mast) into the rectangle hole (mast step).  So I think making the rectangle just a wee bit lopsided is going to get it into the hole.  This work has prevented me from completing the second deck which I thought would be done last Thursday.  Not to mention that the grass is now growing, shrubs are needing fertilizing, and I've put off re-varnishing my park bench all winter.  Hoping to resume work on Bounty right now.  Oh, and one more reason for posting....you're doing quite well it seems.  Keep it up and just keep coming up with solutions to the inevitable problems.  My kit suggested the pencil for the simulated trenails but I kept breaking the points.  So I have been drilling holes (#76 bit) and not even filling them.  Then letting the varnish (urethane) fill them.  I also cut them all close to size, then nipped them to exact size before laying each one down one by one.  I used white glue -- used a artist brush to spread it thinly on the ply first then on the strip.  One by one.  Very tedius but rewarding in the end.  The key is (I guess you know) to get the first one on perfect, then the rest just press up against that one.

[Captain Al]

Mike it looks like you did a good job on fairing the frames.  What tool(s) did you use?  When I get to that crucial step I'm wondering if a dremel with a sanding disk or barrel would be dangerously effective.  Maybe files?  Or just sandpaper.  Did you have to support the inside of the frames in order to apply enough pressure to make it work?

[fifthace]

Mike that is some good advice from Al there. Definitely check the masts, or at least the size dowel used for the lower section, fits frequently and square, it's much harder to correct later.

 

Although keep note that on the Bounty the foremast is bolt upright, 90 degree's to the deck looking from abeam, however the main and mizzen masts are at a slight backwards angle. I assume our kit has taken that into account but check your plans to be sure. They will still be 90 degrees looking from bow to stern though.

 

It's easier to correct now than later.

[Mike Dowling]

Wow, a few questions to answer there. Firstly, I did find your message after all CA, it must have been here all the time so I apologise for my senility!!

I haven't had a problem with the masts, they sit just right. Looking from the front they are straight except maybe for a wee bit of warp on the rear mast which does indeed slope very slightly backwards when viewing from the side. Can't say I notice much slope on the main though. The rear and mizzen (?) masts are indeed round pegs in square holes, the main required drilling the seating for if that makes sense.

My technique for the fairing was just a longish sanding block and sandpaper for the main hull and a smaller block for the bow and transom. I did use a small file a bit on the transom end formers. I didn't use a dremel as I find it a bit vicious though I might with the planking.  Once I had all the decks on the hull was quite rigid and stood up to my sanding abuse!! Bare in mind that the bow section on my kit is balsa blocks which are fitted and shaped after the first planking. I just hope my fairing so far is OK, time will tell.

It does occur to me CA that looking at you photos the two halves of your deck do not appear to be square. Is that me or because of your warping problems?

I can't believe that you drilled all those holes for imitation nails, I found it quite hard enough with a pencil.

For the deck planking I just put white glue on the ply only and then the planks. Unfortunately I have found that the veneer wood for the planks does vary quite a bit in width so you can't always rely on the sitting just right beside each other. Still, it all adds to challenge I guess!

 

 

[Captain Al]

Well you are looking pretty darn good; I hope I can catch up to you some day and have my Bounty (which my wife wants me to call 'Lil Walter' in honor of the gentleman who gave it to me and passed away two weeks ago) looking as good. Actually drilling the holes wasn't a big deal; took about 1 hour on the holding platform and 2 on the lower deck. I don't know what I'll be doing on the main deck but I'm thinking something more visible and authentic like actually filling the holes with trenails. Below decks won't be seen much. I guess I am lucky that the planking strips in my kit are perfectly 5 mm each. Made it quite easy to get straight lines. What I need to learn to do (or get a better tool that allows me to do it) is nip these buggers at perfect 90 degree angles. Seems like no matter how straight it looks in the cutter tool its off by a little. Is that what is known as the parallax view? My perspective on the cutting edge isn't 90 degrees so it only appears to be aligned right? I also have that problem when I try to file or sand down to a right angle. I don't know for sure if your solution to the round peg / square hole is what the kit and other builders would recommend. I'm just thinking aloud and offering up an idea for the future. I thought of doing that, and of course I'd have had to do it immediately upon installing those steps on the false keel. But here's my thought: a round peg in a round hole can twist. Even with glue down that hole I didn't want to risk it. And I wondered about how the real ship was stepped. On the boats I've owned there has always been blocking or the mast shape was not the same as the step. So I went ahead and cut (actually filed) tenons into the lowest 10 mm of the mast. Now it can't twist no matter how much strain is put on it. Now, after all the work, Dominic says the main and mizzen should rake back slightly. I didn't see that in the plans -- though I did look -- so now its back to look again and if necessary, make some more adjustments. Will I ever get to gluing in that lower deck?

[Mike Dowling]

Somehow I just know you are going to hate me but, I just cut my planks by hand using a cutting board with a grid. The first one I cut I use for the measure of all the rest to obtain consistency. I'll bet you wish like me that Dominic hadn't mentioned the slope on the masts. It could be HIS kit is wrong, but I rather doubt it. I am not quite sure what you mean about your mast twisting. As and when I get to actually putting mine in properly believe me, they wouldn't dare move or I would threaten them with the open fire!!

Anyway, thank you very much for the compliments. At least your good lady has a polite name for your boat. I have a couple in mind for mine but certainly not for public viewing!! Onwards!!!

[Captain Al]

I assume you mean you cut them with a little saw. That would solve my issue. Don't know why I never adopted that. I bought this nipper type tool which uses a razor blade (its on one of my pics) and it cuts really cleanly but like I said, hard to get a true right angle.

 

I went and checked the slope of the three masts. Dom was correct 66.7% of the time. At least what I could glean from my plans and a triangle, the foremast and main are perpendicular to the keel. It does look like the mizzen has about a 4 degree rake aft. I'm not worried about this. My thinking is this: it either doesn't matter at all or whatever rake needs to be put in can be done with rigging. On many sailboats nowadays (mine included, when I still owned her) you have an adjustable backstay which you tighten up when sailing upwind (unless your a lazy sailor like we were often times). This puts a slight rake aft into the main mast. I think this could apply to a mizzen mast as well, and from what I'm seeing on my model, the mast is tall enough to bend 4 degrees with no problem given tension on the backstay. All this assuming there is a backstay which may not be the case.

 

The "twist" I referred to is simply the mast being able to rotate in the hole. Your's is probably a nice tight fit that won't. Mine, I was afraid, would end up too loose (since I always seem to take off more material than necessary) and would do the twist. I would then have had to call the ship the "Chubby Checker."

[Mike Dowling]

HI, no I don't use a little saw, just an exacto or Stanley knife.

I checked the mast as well and agree with you completely not that I have any personal experience of sailing at all.

 

I have sent you a PM as well as this post for the matters we have been discussing.

 

Don't give up - together we can work wonders with these kits - whatever we decide to call them!!!