Niagara 1813 by Don Quixote - Model Shipways - 1:64 - First build

[Don Quixote]

LOL. They're such small strips! 29 planks each side. That's not including the area around the gun ports/sweeps. It should be noted though, this is my first wooden model and wood and I have a love hate relationship. Wood loves to make me hate it! I've rebuilt car engines, I can fix anything. Restoring a '69 GTO now. No sweat! Wood? Major smelly sweaty arm pits, ya know?

 

Thanks for looking in. Check out greatgalleon's log. He's built dozens of ships, and see what he did with the hull... I 'spect I'll be buying some bondo soon.

 

This guy however, did a fantastic job!

 

Welcome to the niagara club. Got a log?

[Laxet]

If you look at my build log for Niagara, you will see how the battens should lay. There were around 5 to 8 strakes in each belt. I ended up using only two stealers at the stern. The planks got very narrow at the bow.

 

And welcome to the Niagara club. You will find lots to drool over here. I know I have.

[Laxet]

Some other points I will make. When you look at the pics of my build, the pics showing the battens, notice the dark colored frames. The dark color is from wooden shims used to eliminate dips in the planking. I took a typical plank & laid it over the frames, noting any high spots that needed to be sanded & any low spots that needed to be shimmed. It will be obvious when you do this . Just hold the plank down at the ends & look at the frames in between. It's a time consuming process but your hull will look much better.

 

You should get a copy of Planking the Built-Up ship Model by Jim Roberts. It is available at Model Expo, for $12.99. It is invaluable.

[Don Quixote]

That's just it though. I have the marks in the right place, I'm sure... Did you have to force yours in place at all? If I let mine lay naturally, they're a ways off. I can easily bend them in place, but being so new, I worry about every detail.

 

Bottom line I guess... Is it ok to bend the battens as much as it appears to me I'll have to?

[Don Quixote]

Oh yeah. THANKS! My mother taught me manners. I just never learned. I'm a kinda "to the point" man.

[Laxet]

I did not have to force them. When you lay them, they should follow a graceful curve. You should look at them fore to aft , aft to fore & athwartships.

[Laxet]

You will have to bend them. Just not excessively. They should just be gentle sweeps. Pin one in the middle, then pull the end into place. Then place pins in the frames between the middle & ends watching for anything that disrupts the flow of the curve.

[Don Quixote]

Thank you! I feel brave again. Did that jet ever catch up with you?

[Laxet]

I have rebuilt things on my ship many times already. In fact, I am redoing the breech ropes for the cannon as we speak.. I'm in no hurry. I've been building this for 16 years now. And don't forget: Model Expo will replace any broken/lost (or screwed up) parts for free. I've done this several times now & suspect I will do it again.

 

I was late for my flight. I was trying to catch it.

[Don Quixote]

Given the problems I caused myself with the transoms - see the bottom of page one. I used balsa wood to replace what I was having trouble with - I'm happy enough with the way this turned out.

 

What a learning experience! Are we having fun yet? As a matter of fact I am!

[Don Quixote]

Home Depot (local home do-it-yourself store) was tearing down some display end caps. They let me take some of the scraps home so I made this:

[Laxet]

Yep. That's what I need. Some sort of a wood rack. I get tired of digging through piles of wood trying to find the right sizes.

[rfolsom]

Good way to organize...

[Don Quixote]

Ok all you 650,023 people that are following this log... I used these non-digital callipers to measure all the wood from the kit. When I planked around the gun ports and sweeps it looked to me like I was missing more than half of the planks I needed. Got 'em from Model-expo. Now, when preparing for the planking of the hull, I need 8 1/16"X3/32" for each side for the first strake "A". When I started measuring out the battens and verifying with the width of the planks I started having problems. Things weren't adding up. The 8 planks I needed totalled more than what the plans call for. Thinking WTF? to myself, looking over and over I noticed an oddity in the callipers I used. See I have it set to 5 mm, but look at 10 mm and it's a mm off. 10ths of inches appear to me to be off too. I bought some considerably more expensive callipers and to me it looks like what should be 1 cm is off by .137 mm. (lighting is playing trick with the shadows in the picture) But the original callipers say something about .002mm. More, WTF?

 

Thing is, converting metric to inches, I get what *I* thought was 3/32" is, according to the new callipers, actually .101" or 7/64" Bottom line, I have no more 3/32"X1/16" planks, and I'm anxious to learn to plank.

 

Question is, the plans call for 8 - 3/32" planks at bulkhead H, strake "A", but all I have are 7/64". Can I change the .75" strake called for in the plans in section A, to accommodate the 7/64" planks I have? Seems to me I can modify all the strakes because the 4th strake "D" has the garboard strake which is the odd man out anyway.

 

I'm out to lean "how to", I don't care about authenticity. Yet.

[rfolsom]

Looks to me like you have a major tool problem.  You can't buy reliable digital calipers for under $80.  The electronic apparatus may be spot on, but the mechanical set-up is usually s#$%.  These non-digital calipers of mine are between 40-60 years old, and they work just fine....(Had to clean them recently with a toothbrush)

[rfolsom]

I'll look upon your planking; but you know tools help make the build;  too bad Snap-On doesn't make model shipbuilder's tools..

[Laxet]

I bought a set of fairly inexpensive digital calipers from Model Expo. Eventually I discovered the sloppiness you describe. In the electronics field, we call it hysteresis. It is an inability to achieve the same reading when moving the dial in different directions. I still found the calipers adequate for this work. The planking width is not so critical. You could plank with 1/8" planks if you want. It will all sort itself out at the end. The sizes they recommend are just the scale sizes based on the period. He even says somewhere in the book you can vary the sizeof the planks.

[Don Quixote]

I think I spent $150 on the digital. So whataya think, can I get away with modifying the strakes to accommodate the 7/64, or should I ask for the right sizes?

 

I mean, which way would be the wisest to learn? Right now I'm thinking it'd be wisest to have some directions to follow.

[Don Quixote]

Ha! just caught the Snap-On comment. AMEN! I have some Snap-on and some Craftsman. I've had to replace some Craftsman, but the older Snap-On have never needed replacement.

[Laxet]

If I am reading your problem correctly, then your analog calipers are actually right on. The 10mm mark cannot line up at the same time as the 1mm mark. As you slide them open, whichever line lines up is your actual measurement. That is how you get your increments between mm's. If the ten lined up then it would be a whole mm longer than when the 1mm mark lines up. Of course if I read your concern wrong, then never mind.

 

In any case, I doubt (& please don't take this the wrong way) that you are good enough to work with 1/64" tolerances. I know I'm barely good enough to use 1/32" tolerances, & then only some times.

 

Don't forget, also, that as you go around the curvature of the hull, the planks will separate slightly at the top, unless you trim the edges of every plank. It's just not that critical in my mind.

[Don Quixote]

 

The 10mm mark cannot line up at the same time as the 1mm mark.

OMG! If I had any dignity I'd be embarrassed. Seriously. 35 years ago I was a very bad boy and did 30 in the county jail. I was in what they call the single man side. One person per cell. There were 32 cells. They let 1/3 of the inmates out at a time to stretch and play cards or whatever. One day I told a guard that I was having trouble figuring out how all the inmates got out. I said:

 

If cells 1 thru 10 are 10 cells, and 11 thru 21 are 10 cells, and 22 thru 32 are 10 cells than that 10 X 3 is only 30 people, but all 32 got out. How? No one could figure it out.

 

I agree, no way I'm trimming anything off accurately this early in my learning curve. But I'm not going to ask for more wood. I figure the garboard plank can be adjusted... And if I have to use a little wood filler so be it. One strake starts with 8 - 1/8" planks, but the strake is only .57" at the stem. So either way I'll screw it up and rely on the garboard plank. Or did I not drink enough Scotch last night?

 

Question. (again) I know the planks have to be beveled on one side to reduce the klinking effect, but I don't recall where I saw if it's top or bottom. I've read the manual too many times and seem to skim too much now.

 

THANKS!

[Don Quixote]

Thanks y'all I'm feeling more confident. I was measuring the planks shown on the plans and some at the middle BHD are supposed to be 1/8" but on the plans the sizes are inconsistent. So I just took .125" X 8. Whatever works at fore and aft is what works at fore and aft.

 

Panic over.

[Laxet]

You will have to divide that .57 by 8. That will tell you how wide the plank must be on that frame. In fact, you are supposed to do that at every frame. If the plank gets too narrow, then you will need to go from two planks to one plank before the last frame. For what it's worth, I didn't bevel the edges of any of my planks. If I recall, I don't think I used hardly any 1/8" planks. I think the majority of mine were 3/32" planks.

[rfolsom]

I beveled the top and bottom of the planks around the tighter curvature.  By not beveling, gaps are not a problem if you use filler, but  each strake is still driven further away from the last, and your build will start to deviate from your plans.  I would take a raw plank, of the width labeled in the upper right corner, plan sheet 2, left side; test fit it, making tic marks at each bulkhead, labeling the marks, then directly place onto the hull planking layout, at each bulkhead, and transfer the widths.  Then I connected the bulkhead marks via a straightedge, cut the plank to length, hand sanded the taper, and kept test-fitting as I sanded the bevel.

 

On my plans all of belt "a" are 3/32" at bulkhead H.  They will taper from there, towards the fore and aft.

 

All of belt "b" are 1/8" at bulkhead H; also tapering towards the fore and aft;  I used 3/32" planks for the outermost planks due to tapering.

 

You can do the measurements for each belt and divide by number of planks, or you can use the method I use above, or (what's better)  use both methods to double check your accuracy.  Either way, you have to do the measurements at each bulkhead along the plank for an accurate taper.  I would fabricate each plank in pairs, port and starboard, and make sure they land exactly equal on the bulkheads when mounted.

Edited August 12, 2014 by rfolsom

[Don Quixote]

What the heck am I doing wrong here? Those battens lay as naturally as can be!

 

I'm happy with the battens aft.

 

And yes, I know I have some fairing to do. Some of that is shadow (the BHD's are actually white) and too much is me.

Edited August 12, 2014 by JustBlowinInTheWind

[Laxet]

The battens should be placed so that there are an approximately equal number of strakes in each section. That means they should be roughly the same distance apart at each frame.

[Laxet]

Here are pictures of my ship at the same stage you are at.

[Don Quixote]

Nice. My 3rd of 4th will look a lot cleaner than this one... I keep taking the plans too literally. The diagram where they show stem/stern side beside, I measured like crazy to discover the planks that are supposed to be 1/8" wide (as per labelled) are wrong on the plans. I mean according to the text on the plans they're supposed to be 1/8", but if I take my callipers to the plan they're not. Band "B" at BHD H should be 1". 8 - 1/8" planks. I measure from the plans and it's off 3/64.

 

I might be too literal. When you bore and engine out it better be 30 thousandths. 30 thousandths is 30 thousandths, is 30 thousandths. Adding a hobby. Steal and precision vs. Problem solving. No problem solving with cars. Pontiac 455. Buy an Edlebrock performance plus cam, intake manifold and 750 carb for that engine of a given year and it bolts up. Torque wrench, correct order and boom. I've had to tested. 630 H.P. Should get a good 20 gallons per mile.

Edited August 14, 2014 by JustBlowinInTheWind

[aliluke]

My 2 cents here. I'm inclined to just plank the hull and have never used this battening technique. I know that is probably a crude approach but the three hulls I've done have come up just fine. Probably makes me a bull in a china shop but unless I actually get into the planking using some basic rules of engagement I can't see ahead.

 

I'm sure planning it out with battens is the smarter move but sometimes you have to just go for it to get your head around the issues.

[Guest Tim I.]

The first larger ship I planked I also had some challenges with the finding the battens. The thing that worked for me was to plank only belt A per the diagram. Then I found the batten for belt B and planked that. Rinse and repeat. Now a couple ships later, I follow the map all the battens out and plank. The first full planking might not be as precise as you might like, but with filler, heavy sanding and a couple coats of paint, no one else besides you will be the wiser.

 

- Tim