THE BLACKEN-IT TRIALS

[Vivian Galad]

Hey E&T. As everyone else is doing, I come to thank you for your work. I´ve used it for the first time, though changing muriatic acid by vinegar - I did it instinctively, only now I read other ppl do the same. So far, the results seem great. Your post is really one of the most usefull in MSW.

[mtaylor]

Bart,

 

To my knowledge, Blacken-it is only for brass.  White metal is a totally different critter...Hopefully the Jax will work for it.

[janet bode]

Janet B

                    If you look on website www.peterdyson.co.uk they sell every- thing you need.First you need to purchase Cleaner-Degreaser.Second you need to purchase bottle

                    Brass Black.Third you need to purchase tin of Jade Oil fron John Penny Restoration Ltd.( www. jpennyltd.co.uk)

                    to start wash object in water best as you can ,put object in Cleaner Degreaser and get a piece of cloth and wipe parts thoroughly until clean do not touch with fingers

                    rinse thoroughly in cold water.wipe dry with clean cloth,follow instructions printed on bottle of Brass Black .Jade Oil also follow instructions on label.

                    It is very important to follow instructions to the letter, after 24HRS gently wipe you may find a bit of black comes off but it is of no concern ,try not to touch part.

                    Remember clenlineess counts most.

                                                                                        Janet B

[Vivian Galad]

Well, so far, using blacken it didn´t give me a "black" metal. It got a dark brownish color that I liked - it seems aged metal, I would say. Something I did (maybe wrongly) was to put a lot of metal parts at the same time on the solution. This impatience of mine gave some parts a stained look - though I´ll keep it that way if I want a darker look, I´ll try to dump a few parts at a time.

[dgbot]

The solution might be to strong and is acting to fast.  Try cutting it in half with some distilled water and try it.  This will slow down the reaction time and give it a little time to work.  Also try soaking the part in some vinegar for about 15 minutes.  This will put a little bite on the part and may aid in the blackening.

David B

[Erebus and Terror]

Hi Bart, 

 

In my experience Blacken-it only works well with high quality metals and works very poorly on white metal and solder.  I'm still having issues with corrosion on K&S hobby brass. I Believe it has something to do with high levels of iron and tin in the brass. 

 

I've done new trials using copper and have had a much more stable and suitable result. EdT (a frequent poster on the forums) has recommended using copper and I believe this is the best advice for consistent results. I have also purchased some Jax brass black and some liver of sulphur and will also put them to some trials with brass and post here in the fall. Brass is far cheaper than copper, and is more suitable for some parts, so I hope to find the best product for consistent results. 

 

dgbot has given some great advice. Longer bath times with lower concentrations seems to work best. I would recommend using de-ionized water if possible, especially if using brass. 

 

Best of luck! With patience, good results are possible with Blacken-it and brass. But be prepared that corrosion can still occur - even after neutralization and waxing/oiling. 

[Erebus and Terror]

Hi Bart,

 

That actually looks like a very decent result to me. Try buffing the canon with a soft cloth - it will remove the flatness and bring out the highlights. In my experience deep blacks are almost impossible with hobby-level chemical blackening agents. You really need a hot blue process for that. I think the Jax did a pretty good job, from the look of your photos.

 

Just my two cents...

[Erebus and Terror]

Actually looking again it's more than pretty good. It's a very nice consistent black-grey all the way along the canon. I'd call that a success (and gives me hope for Jax). Try buffing it and see how you like it.

[druxey]

Your problems that white metal is not pewter or brass. Each metal has its own chemistry and the solution for one metal will either not work, or works poorly, on a different metal or alloy. You can see that the formula for each is very different:

 

• White metal is an alloy of any of the following: antimony, tin, lead, cadmium, bismuth and/or zinc.
• Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc.
• Pewter is an alloy of tin, with small amounts of copper, antimony, bismuth and, occasionally, lead.

[Erebus and Terror]

Yes indeed, Druxey. Thanks for posting the information.

 

Blacken-It seems to abhor lead, which is why it seems to eat solder, white metal, and pewter. Unfortunately it seems to dislike low quality brass as well, which can contain lead, iron, and other metals. I've recently lost some hard-fought pieces to ongoing corrosion. Unfortunately, I have no way of testing the brass, but I can confirm that K&S brass doesn't work well with Blacken-it. I may be forced to move to copper, which seems to work well with Blacken-It (but I will try Jax and Liver of sulpher first).

 

My slow progress lately on my build is a direct result of metal problems (the model will be covered in metal and I need to work out a stable solution).  

[Erebus and Terror]

Actually I just checked another post that mentioned ongoing corrosion. To my surprise he used K&S brass as well! So, I think we have our answer to the corrosion problem.

 

Can anyone recommend another hobby brass supplier?

 

Recommendation: Don't use Blacken-It on K&S brass!

Edited August 26, 2014 by E&T

[dgbot]

I use Birchwood Casey's brass black.

David B

[Erebus and Terror]

Looks like your perseverance paid off! It's a nice deep black with good highlights. I think it will look far better than a painted version.

 

Thanks for posting this here. Blackening metal seems to be one of the arcane arts, and I've yet to master it. 

[Kitzilla]

I happened to have contacted Jax as well recently, about their different blackeners and darkeners. I had specifically had asked if there was any difference to the finished tone and texture between the Pewter Blackener, and their Brass Black Darkener. Just thought this a bit more interesting info to add to the pot. This was the response:

 

 

The Jax Pewter Black will definitely work on both the brass and the pewter (and it will make them both the same color).

The Jax Black Darkener will definitely work on the brass and MAY work on the pewter.

The Jax Black Darkener will make the brass “blacker” than the Jax Pewter.

There is no substitute for actually trying the chemicals on the specific metals you are trying to blacken.

I hope this little tidbit will help.

[Erebus and Terror]

Kevin and Bart, thanks for the very helpful information! 

[MarkCC]

Hi Bart.

 

I am following your Philly build and am just about to the point of trying my hand at blackening the cannons and associated fittings.  A couple of questions.

 

1)  Did you use Blue Jacket's Pewter or Brass Blackener?

 

2)  Have you done any more parts and are you still happy with the results?

 

Mark

[lagrayjr]

I tried to buy some blackened- it at my local hobby store yesterday and they were out. The owner called their supplier and was told that it was not any longer being produced and that the owner of the company and his wife had both been recently killed in an automobile accident. I cannot verify if this is true but if so it is sad for all of us. Laman 

[Canute]

If I may summarize: clean parts with extra fine steel wool (or Scotch-brite scrubbie), a half hour bath in vinegar, rinse off in acetone, dunk in blackener/browning solution for ? minutes and neutralize in baking soda for X minutes. Are these the concensus, esteemed crew?

 

I'm drafting a buy and want to ensure I get all the goodies. Western NC is pretty thin for any kind of hobby shopping. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Ken

[Erebus and Terror]

This is horrible news, if true! Blacken it is a staple product and I hope someone can take over the company...

Edited October 25, 2014 by E&T

[Erebus and Terror]

Blacken the piece until it is the desired colour, however long it takes. Baking soda bath should not be longer than ten seconds of so. If you are still worried, just rinse in water.

[mtaylor]

Sadly, it appears the news is true about the owners.  I couldn't find any info/news on the company when Googling.   So... I suspect that the supplier info is correct.

 

Edit:  No website listed.  They produce products (weathering powders, other items) used in Model Railroading so there was more of a product line than Blacken-it. 

Edited October 25, 2014 by mtaylor
added info

[Erebus and Terror]

Sadly, it appears the news is true about the owners.  I couldn't find any info/news on the company when Googling.   So... I suspect that the supplier info is correct.

 

Edit:  No website listed.  They produce products (weathering powders, other items) used in Model Railroading so there was more of a product line than Blacken-it. 

 

Awful news. I've purchased some Jax, so I'm hoping it works just as well. 

[jmanhardt]

Whatever the blackening agent is, keep in mind that brass is an alloy of copper and zinc and the "brass" you buy can vary considerably in the ratio of the two metals. "Red brass" contains more copper; "yellow brass" contains less copper. Expect the blackening agent to work differently on different ratios of copper and zinc. I have noticed in recent years that hobby brass has become much more yellow than in the past.

Edited December 15, 2015 by jmanhardt