review sloop of war

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

On 7/1/2023 at 5:31 PM, Bob Fraser said:

I've had a reply from the author Ian McLaughlin and summarised below with permission.

Thank you for reaching out to Mr. Mclaughlin and getting an update on the state of research and the challenges facing a further volume. 

 

I’ve been thinking about what could be done by aspiring scholars interested in picking up where the last volume left off, in collaboration with the author. The topic does remain sorely under-covered and stands as a glaring hole in our picture of the royal navy at the time, whose majority was made up of small patrolling or support craft. 
 

It occurs to me that a lot of the research from the American side of things can be gleaned from referencing Chapelle and other extant works, while the best record of actual hull forms from American vessels of the revolutionary war and into the Napoleonic era comes from British admiralty drafts of captured vessels. 

 

As for the French side of things, I imagine that again British admiralty drafts may be adequate to explore their input, though some research on the logic of their design and use would be necessary. I’m also curious of Mediterranean influences on French craft of this period, and a glimpse at xebeques frigates and tartane privateers may make sense. 

 

British designs (from a quick glance at nothing more than the Wikipedia list) seem to include successive batches of 6 lbr ship sloops not radically different from the designs arrived at by the end of the Seven Years’ War, plus attempts at developing an effective brig design (such as HMS Speedy) based around 4 pdrs for budget presence. 

Royal navy schooners seem to have mostly been built in Bermuda (such as the famous Pickle) and many schooners were purchased or used as captured, generally built in America even if captured from the French. A chapter or subchapter on Bermuda shipbuilding would probably be appropriate to include as well. 

A fact that strikes me is that the British Bermuda schooner classes were all rather smaller than most of the American “letter of marque” schooners we now call Baltimore clippers. 

 

Then there are the large populations of Cherokee and Cruzer class brig sloops and the smaller “gun brigs”, all an evolution in applying the carronade to amplify firepower for affordable omnipresence through small hulls and crews.  There is a memorable image somewhere of a small carronade-armed brig playing an important role in the capture of a French 74, though I forget the details of the incident. 

A discussion of the impact of the carronade on naval warfare would be unavoidable, as sloops became primarily carronade-based platforms over time. 

A discussion of the development of fleet supply lighters and water tankers to support the Brest blockade and ships patrolling foreign stations may also be appropriate in such a volume, as they were small utility ships vital to the fleet (but difficult to market their own volume about). 

This is all no doubt known to Mr. McLaughlin and most of us interested in further research. I’m wondering if a different publisher could become interested in helping such a project along,  if one or more intrepid contributors were able to help assemble the needed research and images. I wish I was in a better position to offer more than simple words!

We have the ability to coordinate online across oceans, if only we could get the NMM and other institutions to send us all they have on the subject matter!  Or upload it in a searchable way. 
-hard-headed Meriadoc

[Bob Fraser]

2 hours ago, Meriadoc Brandybuck said:

Thank you for reaching out to Mr. Mclaughlin and getting an update on the state of research and the challenges facing a further volume. 

Not a problem. he seems a very amenable guy.  I have, however, accidentally misspelled his name - its McLaughlan 🙄

 

2 hours ago, Meriadoc Brandybuck said:

I’ve been thinking about what could be done by aspiring scholars interested in picking up where the last volume left off, in collaboration with the author. The topic does remain sorely under-covered and stands as a glaring hole in our picture of the royal navy at the time, whose majority was made up of small patrolling or support craft. 

The development of the Sloop of War is probably a niche market within the niche of Age of Sail. 

From my own limited research, online primary from RMG and secondary from books, for a snow rigged sloop of 1756, one of the Thomas Slade  classes ofter he became Surveyor, the RN designs for the sloop of war at that time are getting bigger. They are also starting to become 3 masters, with the largest classed as a small 6th rate, losing the oars over the years, quarterdeck getting longer, losing the tiller etc over various classes.

 

Books on specific classes appear to be what most modellers want, such as David Antscherl and Greg Herberts Swan class series, and the lesser known one on the Cruiser class (Building Plank on Frame Models) by McCarthy, and of course the multitude on the Victory.

 

3 hours ago, Meriadoc Brandybuck said:

.......

I’m wondering if a different publisher could become interested in helping such a project along,  if one or more intrepid contributors were able to help assemble the needed research and images. I wish I was in a better position to offer more than simple words!

We have the ability to coordinate online across oceans, if only we could get the NMM and other institutions to send us all they have on the subject matter!  Or upload it in a searchable way. 

A large project you've outlined there, one that would need considerable time and access to original sources, some knowledge of the types being researched, someone to co-ordinate, and of course someone, or a collaboration, to put it all together into a coherent readable book or books that a publisher would want.  Like yourself the only one I could think of was Seawatch, but maybe Conway too. We can but live in hope.

Distance and cost, with a lack of expertise puts me out the frame for any of the above jobs.

Just my 2p worth of thoughts.

 

 

 

[Ian McLaughlan]

Good morning everybody, well at least it is morning here in Blighty. Thank you for your comments on the business of the Sloop of War. The principal publisher of nautical books in the UK is Seaforth, who are an imprint of Pen and Sword. Apparently books on the age of sail are not as commercially viable as they one were, at least in this Country though probable not in the USA. Were a publisher in the USA to be interested in a follow on volume then the first action would be to sketch out the main sections of the book and then find an author to take each one on. This could of course be a publisher's nightmare. Over the period we are dealing with several different countrties were deploying small warships, which could loosely be described as Sloops of War. For example: the American Colonies seeking independance, the French with their brigs, cutters and privateers, the Spanish, The USA and UK again with their privateers and all the states bordering the Baltic. The privateers are an essential part of this story, for instance those captured by the RN from the USA and France/Spain were commissioned into the RN and rated as sloops. for example "Rattlesnake and Prince de Nieuchatel. Thus there would be a mountain of information to master in order to produce a worthwhile volume. From my particular angle as an elderly marine painter there would be a lot of illustration, although more paintings are available for this period than there were for the earlier one. All in all a quite daunting prospect and one which any publisher would need tyo consider very carefully.  

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Good morning Mr. Mclaughlan! and good morning everyone!

Apologies for the misspellings and the general ruckus. 
It is great to hear the input from Bob Fraser and the esteemed author himself, concerning the publishing and practical difficulties. 
As it seems unrealistic for museums to upload and digitally catalogue everything relevant to such niche research, we are powerless to pursue much until we have better-located collaborators with more viability for publishers. 
We can leave this thread as a beacon to any would-be contributors as an idea pool for where to start and what to consider including. 

Some of what one might include in a further volume exists in extant works and may either be brushed over or treated in an original way- Chapelle’s discussions of the American privateers, lots of books about schooners, and the detailed Seawatch exposition on the Swan class, and possibly others I’ve missed. 
A further volume might take a more analytical look at how sloops were used by various navies, how privateers operated, the proportion of admiralty resources devoted to fielding sloops over time compared to frigates and line of battle ships, and what influenced design choices throughout the eventful decades in question. The impact of carronades and copper plating, the expansion of trade, and other developments would have told on the design, tactics, and importance of sloops. 
Considering Mr. Mclaughlan’s comments about the number of different nations developing small warships, it is necessary to consider splitting the volume based on region or conflict, or picking up on the general trends and supplying examples of the evolution of diverse subtypes. Furthermore, to be worthwhile it must not simply catalogue information that is already well-known, but provide new illumination and analysis in keeping with the quality of the original volume (a truly challenging task indeed). 
 

(In a few decades I shall begin looking into the viability of a Greenwich-area  retirement.)

If I may be bold enough to ask the author’s thoughts- Mr. McLaughlan, what sloops of war of the American Revolution or Napoleonic period do you find most interesting to discuss or paint?

-ever-hopeful Meriadoc

[uss frolick]

A brief but complete history of the development of the American sloops of war can be found within Chapelle's 'History of the American Sailing Navy'. Ancre's monographs on La Creole, La Cygne and L'Invention contain brief histories of the French sloop/corvette types as well. But what is lacking, strangely enough, is the development of the type in British service.

Edited July 10, 2023 by uss frolick

[Roger Pellett]

As a author who has actually published a book on a particular ship type (the Great Lakes Whaleback Ship) it is a massive effort.

 

Doing the Research is the fun part, and since I enjoy writing and telling a story it was fun too.

 

From then on, things get more difficult.  First of all, my text had to be, word processed into an integrated whole.  The text needs to be footnoted, keeping in mind that one error invalidates all succeeding footnotes.  To do this accurately you need to have a system from the beginning to organize all reference material for future easy reference.

 

You also need written permission to use drawings, photos, etc. and any extensive quotes.  This is a big job and no place for latrine lawyers.  Even though drawings and photos may be old enough to claim public domain this does not permit their custodians from claiming copyright and to charge for their use.  Once you have permission, all graphic material must be attributed.

 

After this all has been done, it’s time to approach publishers.  Publishers will usually require a draft the book, a discussion of its significance and an economic justification to publish.  For books of this type, pre-publication advances are a figment of one’s imagination.

 

The publisher will usually hire and pay for a cover designer, an editor, and will assume responsibility for formatting the book.  I was responsible for paying for someone to index the book.  So far, she was paid more than the royalties that I received.

 

Roger

[uss frolick]

I did it too on a 1812-era American sloop of war subject, quite a while back, even though Naval Institute Press was great, and performed all those functions free of charge. But when all was said and done, I made back only about a quarter of all my research costs, even though the book sold out.

 

But it's in most of the major research libraries in the country, so there's immortality for you!

[Roger Pellett]

What was the name of your book?

 

 My book produced my 15 minutes of fame.  It was a finalist for a 2018 Minnesota Book Award and Honorable Mention, Northeast Minnesota Book Award.  Both involved attending an awards event.  At one an invited guest told me not to invite him for any future books!  I enjoyed seeing my book at the Mystic Seaport Bookstore and like you in the collection of many libraries.  In your case, being a Naval Institute author is a big deal. Having this on your resume is the sort of thing that might interest them or Seawatch to contract you to write volume 2 of Sloops of War.

 

These books are entirely different from the mass market volumes found everywhere.  Print runs are small, in some cases, 500 or so books.  My contract provides a 25% royalty but when discounts to sellers and institutions are taken into account the return is minimal.  My publisher is an academic press.  Commercial publishers may offer better terms.

 

Roger

 

 

[uss frolick]

‘Blakeley and the Wasp: The Cruise of 1814’, NIP, 2001.

[Seahawk1313]

uss frolick,Hi Steve, Have you consided writing comparing the 1813 sloops.  I'm sure you have a lot of research on the subject.  - Hal