Ratline Spacing

[bear]

What is the spacing between ratlines?  Is it 11" in full sclae on a ship?

 

Thanks

Keith

[druxey]

Usually a little more: 12" to 15" is the range.

[clearway]

A lot of source works i have read specify 15" spacing for the ratlines.

Keith

[michaelpsutton2]

I believe Steels 1794 has 13"

[wq3296]

Greetings Bear,

 

Common sense would peg the distance at 12" - same as a common step ladder. This spacing seems quite natural, and may have come from ratlines first, and over time was applied to ladders when they were manufactured to typical standards.

 

wq3296

[wq3296]

Really garym?

 

Assuming 1:48 scale, the difference between 12" and 13", or even 15" is practically indistinguishable. At 1:64 or 1:96 scale - forget about it. Even at 1:48 you can't build consistently to 1/16" tolerance no matter what the research shows. Research is important when it makes sense and will yield information critical to the proper configuration of the model. Beyond that how far do you want to take it?

 

wq3296 

[michaelpsutton2]

I would weigh in on the side of the practical.  Differences of an inch or two at this scale are not going to be readily discernible.

 

There is always the internal satisfaction that comes from kn wrong that you have done it right. Or at least as close to right as you can.

 

But there is no avoiding the fact that soon after finishing any project new information always comes to hand. And it almost always contradicts what you have done

[amateur]

Really garym?

 

Assuming 1:48 scale, the difference between 12" and 13", or even 15" is practically indistinguishable. At 1:64 or 1:96 scale - forget about it. Even at 1:48 you can't build consistently to 1/16" tolerance no matter what the research shows. Research is important when it makes sense and will yield information critical to the proper configuration of the model. Beyond that how far do you want to take it?

 

wq3296 

 

Yes and no: I had my ratlines at -on average - 4 mm apart (at 1:100) scale. I changed it to 3.5 mm (again, on average), just because it looked better.

Your eye picks up tenth's of milimeters, especially in the case of ratlines, as larger spacing results in fewer ratlines. So the question between 11" and 15" is not just an academic question.

 

Jan

[bear]

Thanks for all the information and  opinions. I have just finished with my ratlines on my MSW"s Armed Virginia Sloop. I ended up setting the spacing at 14" or .291 in 1/48 scale. It looks right at that spacing.

 

I made up a spacing block so that I could check the spacing as I went along. Being the Toolmaker that I am they all came out within .020.

 

As to the 1/16"  building tolerance,I would presume that you are  talking about 1/16" in full scale,which would be .001 ?  I have made up displays to show our building group just how close of differences can be seen by your naked eyesight.

As for feeling diferences on a surface,the average person can feel height differences side to side of .0002.

I uild to variuos tolerances as everyone does.

 

It just is up to each person as to what is important to them. 

 

 

  I tied on the outside right shroud line and then went across to the other side. Just used the block to check along as I went. It's just takes time-about 3 hrs later they were all done.

 

I did not measure any of them with a dialcaliper,I just looked at how they compaired to the setting gauge stick,and how they looked as a whole. It's better to have a little variation. Too perfect can also standout as being unnatural.

 

Thanks

Keith

[wq3296]

Bear, 

 

The difference between 12" and 15" spacing at 1:48 scale is 1/16" (.0625). 1/16" tolerance is in the context of dealing with rigging thread and, I would argue, is difficult to consistently maintain. My opinion is based on the facts that 1.) to look correct the ratline should sag slightly in middle 2.) the tying of the ratlines to the shrouds can cause the thread to twist such that they will not lay truly horizontal, 3.) finally, and most importantly, I expect that actual ratlines on real ships were not perfectly spaced or perfectly level. Of course, 1/16" (.0625) tolerance is easily achieved with wood, metal, plastic. I totally agree with your last statement about being too perfect.

 

By the way, 1/16" (.0625) is .0052 of a foot, which is 12". Not sure how you came up with .001. 

[wq3296]

Jan,

 

At 1:100 scale? 4" is .04 which is slightly more than 1/32" (.031). Good luck trying to maintain that tolerance. Probable not worth the effort after all said and done.  

 

wq3296

[twintrow]

He is doing the research GaryM, and he started at the appropriate place by asking a question at MSW.

 

Tom

[bear]

Hi  wq3296

 

As to the 1/16",I was scaling it down to 1/48 scale,which is .0013 . As to the difference between 12" and 15" spacing being 3" which in 1/48 scale would be .0625. Which is were you got the 1/16",now I see what you were talking about in variations in the spacing being 1/16".

 

It coud be the same type variations in the heights of the deadeyes. As you noted in real life there would be very few instances where they were all the same spaces and heights.

 

Now,add that you are entering a built model into a contest,if they were not all perfect,just what kind of deductions would take place for uneven Deadeys and random spaced ratlines?

 

I just look at it as to what would be a "guideline" or "ballpark" measurment be. And if there were differences between civil and naval ship rigging. 

 

 

Thanks for adding to my knowledge base on rigging this week. And for the help it was in my current build.

 

Keith

[wq3296]

Really garym?
 
Unlike you, I spend more time living life and building models than I do satisfying myself...with extensive research on minutia. You purposely twisted the intent of my initial post and I will not let you get away with it. My point was that a ladder has rungs spaced at 12" so it's not a bad call to think that ratlines could present the same spacing, particularly as shown at modeling scales. Are you ready to say that no ships have ever had ratline spacing less than 14"? You would be on this ice, I think. Does your library include Longridge's book on modeling the Victory? If so, go to page 231 and you will see that the spacing taken off of the actual ship was 13". Oops! Looks like your statement is equally misleading and misinformed.

 

My original post was meant simply to provide an opinion, as many folks do who follow MS, not dogma. I wonder: do you research every post for accuracy? If so, I want to let you know that you've missed many that had major inaccuracies greater than my subjective opinion amounting to scale inches. I am always willing to learn from anybody who has more information than I, including you. However, I am not receptive to your smart-#%* answers and indirect and unwarranted criticism.

 

wq3296

[Chuck]

Ok guys....knock it off......

 

12" or 14"  this can go for ever and its making folks uncomfortable.  

 

Chuck

[wq3296]

Greetings Keith,

 

I have never entered my models in any kind of a contest, so I can't provide an answer. However, I expect that realism would be taken into account. Scale model work can never be perfect, nor should it be. Some of the best models I have ever seen were put on the internet by the daughter of a man who had passed away. They were perfect in there imperfection. Anyone who has been around real ships, fishing boats, historic ships, etc. will tell you that they are not perfectly painted or finished. They never look better than the day they are launched. I think when modeling a ship, the builder needs to be aware of this fact. I strive for period correctness since I have no desire a build a ship model that the finish and paint work of a Ferrari.

 

wq3296

[wq3296]

10-4 Chuck

[wq3296]

Thanks garym,

 

Enjoyed the discussion and look forward to more of your input on future topics. Let's have a grog or two to knew friends.

 

wq3296