CharlieZardoz Posted December 8, 2014 Share #1 Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Hello again fellow builders. Was wondering if one wanted to lets say make the Fair American or Armed Virginia Sloop from 1/48 scale to 1/64 or another scale what might be the challenges a modeler might face? Aside from a few fittings and changing the size of the wood planks, parts, etc, the kits seem to have very clear instructional guides to work with but curious if anyone's every tried doing so and what the process would entail. Also would one say doing so would be significantly harder to build than the kit directly from the box? Appreciate the shared wisdoms cheers/jeers and/or speculations. Charlie Edited December 8, 2014 by CharlieZardoz Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 8, 2014 Share #2 Posted December 8, 2014 Charlie, Basically, you enlarge the plans (or make them smaller. Then cut wood as needed for keel, bulkheads, etc. You'll basically be scratchbuilding. Nothing wrong with that and quite a few folks have build logs in the scratch area for doing this. The only thing really different is that parts need to be cut by you instead of the manufacturer. CharlieZardoz 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted December 8, 2014 I think i'm going to look through the scratch section more thoroughly to see what people have posted. Scratch building feels ominious but mainly in the manner of knowing what resources to get ie. size of deadeyes, size and amount of plank strips, cannons, etc. I have noticed that the quarter gallery window for the Fair American looks just like the one in the ms rattlesnake so perhaps conversions aren't as scary as they seem with a bit of searching through available stock parts (also don't seem to fancy myself an extremely proficient whittler either lol). BTW how does everyone have that list of builds under their name? Charlie Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 8, 2014 Share #4 Posted December 8, 2014 Charlie, For the linking: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/760-how-to-add-a-build-log-link-to-your-signature/ True, scratch isn't much different from kits except normally there's no instructions. Kits do have a lot pre-cut and some things pre-made but they do have almost all of the parts you need. Scratching you just source or make your own. CharlieZardoz 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimber Posted December 8, 2014 Share #5 Posted December 8, 2014 as I see it, and read about scratch building, kits just take some of the pre work out of it for you. scale plans, precut parts and finding pre made manufactured parts already made to that scale and putting it all together in a box. so your steps would be to rescale the plans, transfer those scaled up (or down) plans to cut new scaled parts ( false keel, bulk heads, false deck and so forth) and figure out new scale sizes of manufactured parts like dead eyes, blocks, cannons, rigging lines , planks and so on and buy or make those. Basically then, you have just made your own kit to the scale you want. CharlieZardoz 1 Quote Current Build Log(s): -Swift Virginia Pilot Boat 1805- Artesania Latina 1985 no sails kit. My first wooden ship build. - Carrack - Woodkrafter Kits Completed Build Log(s): -Pirate Ship- Woodkrafter Kits Ship in a Bottle - First ship in a bottle kit build. -The Secret Revealed Boat in a Bottle Kit- Authentic Models - Ship In Bottle On the Shelf to build: - Build a Ship in a Bottle Kit - Authentic Models - The Chesapeake Bay Flattie - Midwest Products - Armistad 1832 - Serial Modellbau - San Gabriele 1497 - Serial Modellbau - Clara May English Ketch - Artesania Latina - Santa Maria - Scientific - Margaretha - Tris Model - Paranzella - Tris Model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadeusz43 Posted December 8, 2014 Share #6 Posted December 8, 2014 Hi, After rescaling you can use only strips for hull planking and other simple stock of wood rest of things to be usless.More resonable and cheaper to buy the plans for the model you want to build. You can also buy items of equipment such as guns, blocks, decorations and other on a scale appropriate for your project. Plans are available for most models sold as kits and many other ships to build models. However, the construction of models from scratch requires much more equipment in workshop and skills of modellmaker. Source of plans at reasonable prices:Associazione Navimodellisti Bolognesi (Italy)http://www.anb-online.it/I bought there plans for 5 ships.Big choice of plans, moderate prices (Germany)http://shop.vth.de/bauplane-frasteile.h ... 2&limit=30Links for sources of planshttp://www.bauplanarchiv.modellskipper.de/ Cornwall Model Boats: http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/aca ... plans.htmlRoyal Museum Greenwhich http://collections.rmg.co.uk/modelbouwers (Dutch): http://www.modelbouwers.nl/tekeningenschepen.phpANCRE: http://www.ancre.fr/ Plans in Polish monthly Modelarstwo Okrętowe (Ships Modelling).http://www.modelarstwookretowe.pl/index.php?p=17List of plans:http://www.modelarstwookretowe.pl/index.php?p=44Spanish plans:http://www.cuervas-mons.com/Miscelanea% ... lanos.html Free uploads (Spanish)http://www.modelismonaval.com/descargas ... arcos-vela Happy modelling. Tadeusz My models: From kits Vasa, HMS Victory, Le Solei Royale, Friesland From scratch HMS Warrior 1860, Esplanade, Grosse Yacht Norman’s ship, HMS Speedy, La Royale Peter von Danzig Polacca XVII cent. Current project: SS Savannah 1818 mtaylor, CharlieZardoz, WackoWolf and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted December 8, 2014 Share #7 Posted December 8, 2014 Charlie, In the case of the Fair American, nobody was sure about what scale the original model is, or the size of the actual ship was. When Model Shipway first offered the popular FA in solid hull form back in the 1950s, they guessed it to be in 3/16th of an inch scale, and so marked their yellow box. When they redid the kit in laser cut bulkhead form in the 1980s, the FA she suddenly became a 1/4th scale model, EVEN THOUGH BOTH KITS AND THEIR FITTINGS WERE THE EXACT SAME SIZE! CharlieZardoz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 8, 2014 Share #8 Posted December 8, 2014 Tadeusz, Would you give some thought to posting your list here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/13-ships-plans-and-scratch-research-general-research-on-specific-vessels-and-ship-types/ ? I think it would be big help to those looking for plans. WackoWolf and CharlieZardoz 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Frolick your statement intrigued me so thought I'd look into this a bit more. I put together an image comparison of Rattlesnake and Fair American both ships from the same era. The left is more or less what the ships should be in same scale historically, the right is the comparison of the size of the two hulls as per the models measurements. I added little Sultana at the bottom just to offer a bit more for comparison. While I find it odd that a 14 gun brig could be a mere 69' I do think the picture shows that certain details look in proper scale to the left rather than right. The Fa's depth and the rudder cleats and masts seem too big on the right so the kit is most likely accurately portrayed at 1/48. That said the pic on the right shows cannon ports that are the same size as the Rattlesnake also the forecastles do look rather proportionate. Regarding the fittings I got the measurements of the quarterbadges (fancy window ports) for both kits and they seemed to be the same size (about 1" by 5/8"). Since they look similar it's possible the models are just using the same fitting. Edited December 11, 2014 by CharlieZardoz Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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