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Geoff Matson

Constitution by Geoff Matson - Model Shipways 2040 - 1/76 scale

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Jay

 

Glad to have you back. Hope the vacation went well.

Well, not exactly. We were in Europe on a river cruise and got flooded out. The boat trip turned into a bus trip with sleeping arrangements on floating hotels. All river traffic had come to a complete halt on all major rivers in Europe. Here is where we were supposed to dock in Budapest.

 

post-246-0-02605300-1371651240.jpg

A couple of your ship boats would have been handy.

It is good to be back home after that expensive excursion.

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I am in the process of figuring out my rigging line sizes and colors. I do not like the kit supplied line and plan on making my own using the Byrnes Ropewalk. I have narrowed the line down to DMC cotton for most of it and Coats & Clark cotton for some of the smaller sizes. I also think I will be using General Finish water based stain to color the lines. Right now I am making some test lines and checking the sizes to see how the sizes come out. So far I am pretty impressed with DMC and Coats &Clark results. They look a whole lot more to scale than the line supplied.  Once I get it all finalized I will then rig the bowsprit, and the masts off the model. For those of you who haven't checked out Jays web sight he has a nice explanation of how he made his rigging line as well as the MSW article for down load.   www.brentjes.com/conny.html  . 

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Thanks Geoff and Jay,

 

I borrowed our group's Byrnes ropewalk because I'm at about that point too. Your posts and comments will help a lot.

 

Harvey

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Harvey, if you have any questions I will be glad to help were I can. In Harold Hahns book (Ships of the American Revolution and their models) he gives some great information about making scale rope. Well worth the read.

 

In going over the Riggins sizes off the plans. The line goes form .005 all the way up to .049. About 21 different sizes. Most of them only .001 to .005 difference in sizes.

 

 

In the kit you have six sizes of black thread and three sizes of tan thread.

 

 

 

Here is what the kit says to do in reguards to Rigging line:

Kit Rigging Line

 

Because more line diameters are shown on the plan provided in the kit, use the following guide:

 

          Lines on Plan                                                              Lines in Kit

            Less than 0.009"                                                          0.005" thread

            0.009" to 0.015"                                                          0.008"

            0.016" to 0.026"                                                          0.021"

            0.027" to 0.036"                                                          0.028"

            0.037" to 0.046 "                                                         0.040"

            0.047" to 0.055"                                                          0.051"

 

To enhance the model's scale like appearance, use every available diameter or purchase more separately.

 

I plan on using the same guide lines but will make my own line. Basically .005,.008,.021,.028,.040,.051 out of DMC or Coats and Clark or some other material. I know you can go nuts over this so I am going to try to keep it as close as possible. I will be making some rigging cards showing what I came up with for my sizes. Will let you know what I came up with.

Edited by Geoff Matson

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I really like your last post. :D  So all this rigging has finally drove you off to the mountains, or are you looing for a little shine to calm your nerves :cheers:

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We are sitting in a lodge while the rain is soaking our tent and gear.

 

Iguess this the year of wet vacations for us. We are here with the whole family so not all is lost.

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I have been using my Byrnes Ropewalk and experimenting with making rope.

 

post-747-0-30752700-1398004350_thumb.jpg

 

post-747-0-58793100-1398004363_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

So far I have I had good succes with Coats and Clark Cotton Thread. I like the Cotton for several reasons. You can dye it, when you glue it the clue soaks in and is not seen, and it is not shinny like the synthetic threads for starts.

 

Here is the thread I am using:

 

post-747-0-42896200-1398004790_thumb.jpg

 

With one strand of 0.007" thread  I am able to make sizes of thread 0.007", 0.014", 0.017", 0.021", 0.024", 0.028", 0.037", 0.039", and 0.043" This is done by twisting strands from two to 12 strands. Sounds more complicated than it really is.

 

 

Edited by Geoff Matson

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Geoff, that is quite a setup for making your ropes. It again, shows that a great machine and a great operator makes the difference between so-so and marvelous output. I like the idea here also that you can make rope a lot longer with the spools mounted on the traveling head. I am surprised that, back in the olden days, they did not think of that rather than having long-long sheds and long walk-ropes

 

I also agree with your analysis that cotton allows you to dye and glue the threads (or ropes) better than when made out off synthetics. Keep it up. 

 

BTW do you have a picture of some rope samples you have made???????

 

When can I order some of this for my next project????

Edited by Modeler12

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Jay

 

Thanks I am in the process of putting some rope cards together. When I do I will post them. What I have been doing is making the rope in about 20 foot lenghts,(the width of my room), and then harding the line with some weights. Seems to work prety well. RIght now I have an assortment of plactic bags with different sizes of rope in them. A lot to keep track of.

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Sounds like an interesting project, Goeff. Knowing that your machine is excellent (as well as your previous work) I am sure that the results will be great. 

Have you experimented with dyeing any of the rope? I know you had before, but I like to keep track of your progress.

 

I had some help (my wife) when I drew lines through the dye. They were up to about 40 feet long and required some clips and a paper towel swipe to make sure they were clear and too over loaded with stain. I am sure you will come up with a good way to do  those long lines.

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Here are some examples of the rope cards that I am making

 

post-747-0-83666500-1398005145_thumb.jpg

 

post-747-0-87416100-1398005173_thumb.jpg

 

post-747-0-24547400-1398005160_thumb.jpg

 

 

All the lines on the card are made with Cloats and Clark 30 wt cotton thread. I know it might hard to see but that is what my camera gives me.The twist detail is really good. You can see by the thread sizes you can get a lot combinations by increaseing the number of strands you twist.

 

Still a lot more experimenting to do before I start to rig.

Edited by Geoff Matson

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Geoff,

Put me down for 100yards of each.

Thanks.

 

Arr!!!

:cheers:

Edited by CaptainSteve

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With Coats and Clark 30wt black cotton thread here is what I came up with:

 

 

Coats and Clark 30 wt Cotton Thread

1 Strand

                                                                                                                                       1 strand  .007"  or  .17mm

                                                                                                                                       2 strand  .014"  or  .36mm

                                                                                                                                       3 strand  .017"  or  .43mm

                                                                                                                                       4 strand  .020"  or  .51mm

2 Strands

                                                                                                                                       2 strand  .014"  or  .36mm

                                                                                                                                       4 strand  .024"  or  .61mm  (cable laid)

                                                                                                                                       6 strand  .028"  or  .71mm  (cable laid)

                                                                                                                                       8 strand  .030"  or  .76mm  (cable laid)

3 Strands

                                                                                                                                       3 strand  .017"  or  .43mm

                                                                                                                                       6 strand  .030"  or  .76mm    (cable laid)

                                                                                                                                       9 strand  .035"  or  .88  mm  (cable laid)

 

 

 

 With Coats and Clark 50wt black cotton thread here is what I came up with:

 

Coats and Clark 50 wt Cotton Thread

1 Strand

                                                                                                                                    1 Strand     .006"     or     .16mm

                                                                                                                                    2 Strand     .015"     or     .38mm

                                                                                                                                    3 Strand     .018"     or     .46mm

                                                                                                                                    4 Strand     .021"     or     .54mm

2 Strand

                                                                                                                       2 Strand     .015"     or     .38mm

                                                                                                                       4 Strand     .023"     or     .58mm     (cable laid)

                                                                                                                       6 Strand     .027"     or     .68mm     (cable laid)

                                                                                                                       8 Strand     .032"     or     .81mm     (cable laid)

3 Strand

                                                                                                                       3 Strand     .018"     or     .46mm

                                                                                                                       6 Strand     .030"     or     .76mm     (cable laid)

                                                                                                                       9 Strand     .035"     or     .89mm     (cable laid)

4 Strand

                                                                                                                       12 Strand     .043"     or     1.09mm     (cable laid)

 

 

 

 

As you can see you have alot of combinations out of two sizes of thread. I have been happy with results. I am going to give it a try with some lighter color thread  for the running rigging.

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Hello Geoff,

 

Happy birthday animaatjes-verjaardag-77512.gif

I hope you have a great day.

 

Anja

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Hi Geoff, trip has been going well. Really enjoyed seeing all the ships and maritime museums along the way. Hope all is well.

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Hi Geoff, Your mast builds look really great. I'll be starting on those for my Morgan pretty soon, since I think I can do them on the road easier. I'll just be forming the parts, and assembling later once i return home. Your's are inspiring to say the least.

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Well I finished up all my summer projects and it is now time to get back to modeling. I figured out all my rigging lines and how I am going to make them with the Jim Byrnes Ropewalk. But first I have to build a kind of boat dock on my work space where I can keep the Conny in a work case so the dogs and cats as well as the dust will be kept out.

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Here are some pictures of my work area boat dock for the Conny

 

post-747-0-03802300-1381873809_thumb.jpg

 

post-747-0-58727200-1381873833_thumb.jpg

 

post-747-0-60958500-1381873852_thumb.jpg

 

post-747-0-08789100-1381873871_thumb.jpg

 

post-747-0-42031300-1381873895_thumb.jpg

 

post-747-0-04992900-1381873913_thumb.jpg

 

 

This new arrangement will make it easy to slide the Conny out, work on the rigging and then slide it back in its case.

 

Edited by Geoff Matson

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Great idea Geoff and well executed as always.

I am about ready to tackle my version of the Connie. Like you, I have been busy with other 'thoughts' and projects this summer.

Perhaps we can continue together as we rig this lady and see this great model come to a close. It would be nice to put her in a display case and think of her with lots of memories to go with it.

Pardon me for this premature thought.

 

PS I have closed my web site, but still have all the pictures and comments on my computer.

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Thanks guys for all your kind thoughts.

 

For the rigging I have decided on using Coats and Clark cotton thread and some thread by Lizbeth all from Hobby Lobby. The thread will be used from single strands on up depending on the sizes needed. The thread is in five weights, 30wt, 35wt and 50wt for the Coats and Clark and 20wt and 80wt for the Lizbeth. Not too bad, with five spools of thread I will be able to come up with most of the sizes of rope show on the plans. I plan on seizing and serving where needed. For gluing the line I will be using dilutedwhite glue (Elmers)

 

Once the rope is made, I harden it by hanging it with some weight on the ends.

 

I haven't decided on wheather to treat the line with anything. I have beeswax, (both natural and black), and some museum wax (micro-crystalline) to treat the line with. On the black line (standing rigging) the wax leaves a light greyish color on the line. I guess I should expect this because it is a wax. There is no problem on the euchur (running rigging) because the line in lighter in color.

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Hi Geoff, you might want to check out Andy's (realworkingsailor) log, he use's matte medium from scenic express.  I have some Woodland Scenic's scenic cement, which I think is the same thing.  I've used this on model railroads (I still have some) but never on ship rigging, but I plan to.  Andy swears by it!  And of course his serving machine...  And GS Hypo cement...

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/24-hms-pegasus-by-realworkingsailor-victory-models/page-39#entry59245

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No problem Geoff.  You're process of making your own rope is very interesting, but I must admit I'm considering just buying rope from Chuck...  Do you think there's cost savings when you consider purchasing the rope walk vs just buying quality rope?  I do have to rig 3 ships (at least) so I assume at some point I would save a few bucks...

 

(Im)patiently waiting for you rigging to start... :P

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