Ship Model Restoration

[Old Coasty]

Hi everyone, I'm a newcomer having found you in a restoration search.

I have 5 old ship models made before 1938 by my Grandfather.

They need much help and I am trying to make them presentable, but retaining they original look.

Rigging is no problem, as I have found replacement supplies that nearly match the original.

Masts and yards are the problem. Replacements have been made, but how do I stain the new masts to match the old?  Dyes or Stains?

The decks, fittings and spars are all splotchy.  Can I cover them with a flat or satin finish?  They look reasonable when wet with water.

 

Help!!!

[mtaylor]

Can you post some pictures of each ship?  It might help those can help to sort things out.

[Old Coasty]

Will get some pictures as soon as possible.

[STSCM]

Very interested in seeing the models you'll be working with.  I'm starting model building to gain the knowledge to fix a model clipper that's been in the wifes family for years.

[figuerres]

I would not try to match the color of new to old, rather I would document the repairs you make and keep that with the ship. that way if later someone else has to take a look at the ship for any reason they will know who did what and when.

too much of a "cover up" of the fixes could lead to confusion about the age and history of the model.

make it look good but also track the history.

 

some well known models that we copy today had fixes with no clear history so we have to guess at what happened and is the current rigging or other details a result of the fix or is it from the original model.

[Old Coasty]

Here are some photos.  The first is a schooner my not so bright cousin had rerigged with new blocks deadeyes etc.  Then painted like brand new.  Not the way my Grandfather built it.  Look at the rest and see what I mean.  This is exactly what I don't want todo with the rest.

 

The first and forth photos are the Ship and Bark that will come down the road with the other 2 in storage.  I can't get the photos in the order I would like them.

 

The middle photos  are what I'm starting on.  I chose this one because it is bigger, and has more room for blunt fingers to find there way in there.  You can see what I mean about splotchy decks, etc.Any suggestions will be thankfully received.

[Old Coasty]

Where did the schooner photo go?

 

Here it is again.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I disagree with the person above who was saying "don't match the look of the old model with the new restoration" or words to that effect. I think it makes a lot more sense to make the repairs blend in seamlessly. Imaginary future restorations are not a compelling reason to settle for a discordant series of repairs. Why live with a model with a spit personality? I will admit I am biased though, I am, as we speak, restoring an 85 year old model and I am doing my very best to make it look like I was never here. I'm aging, with paint and selection of materials, my newly manufactured parts to look exactly like the old components of the model. If you want to give a nod toward future restoration you can do what I have done: Before you begin restoration, coat every surface with a restorers varnish like Golden's MSA Varnish. This varnish is designed to be easily dissolved with alcohol and goes in as a barrier coat to separate the original material from the restorations that go on over it. The theory being that if 80 years from now someone wants to take off the restoration you are putting on today, they can easily do so by wiping the model down with alcohol. But lets be realistic: is this at all likely? And further, 80 years from now ship model restoration guys are going to have more sophisticated tools at their disposal.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

BEAUTIFUL models bye the way. They certainly deserve to be well taken care of.

[Old Coasty]

JerseyCity Frankie,

 

What do you think about the restorers varnish on the decks etc?

 

I don't want to go into it and come out looking like the schooner.

 

BTW,  My Grandfather built from experience.  He was third mate on a full rigged ship from Mystic CT to Honolulu HI, around Cape Horn.

 

Also worked at the Shipyard in Noank Ct. during its heyday as the largest wooden shipbuilding on the East Coast run by his Uncle.

 

Schooner is of actual vessel built there.  Was a Xmas present to my cousin's Father 1930.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Here are two before and after shots of the bow of a model I restored using the Golden brand MSA varnish. naturally I CLEANED the model and removed a lot of built up nastiness. As you can see the varnish really brings out a lot of color, color I am sure was once there on the original model.

Hats off to your grandfather and his life at sea, this makes the model all the more attractive and worthwhile in my opinion.

[Old Coasty]

JerseyCity Frankie,

 

What did you clean it with?

 

I assume the before photo is before cleaning?

 

The rail looks black in the before, but white paint in the after.

 

The results are great.

 

Thanks.

[druxey]

The most reliable way of removing dust accumulations is using Q-tips (and lots of them!) plus saliva. Seriously. This is what professionals use. Moisten the cotton in your mouth and gently swab a small area. Try to roll the swab rather than scrub with it. Repeat as necessary until you are down to wood or paint. (Don't put the same end of the swab back in your mouth!) Needless to say, this will take some time to do.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I think the watchword is "First, do no harm" meaning don't use any methods that will damage the model. Dry loose dirt can be removed with a dry paintbrush or a toothbrush but usually there is a hard coating of grime.  I agree Q-tips are the tool of choice for the next steps. start cleaning by swabbing with a Q-tip dipped in warm water. Slowly go over every hard surface on the model, being lavish in the use of Q-tips and throwing them away as soon as they collect any dirt.  If that won't work, add some mild soap. Then try some household cleaners. Denatured alcohol is good but leaves a chalky residue. After this point it becomes a chemistry experiment and you are on shaky ground since anything you do from this point on could be irreversible. Thinner, turpentine, nail polish remover and a product called Goof Off sold in hardware stores for removing paint and hardened crud. I have had to resort to all of these at one point or another. But by now your likely to be stripping off original paint and this is something you should avoid. Hopefully you won't have to go to that level of aggressive chemical cleaning.

There is a product sold for art restoration called "Cleaning Solution for Paintings" made by the Webber company. Its probably a blend of a bunch of mild chemical solvents and will make you dizzy if used without ventilation. But it does an excellent job of smoothing out the finish of old ship models and making the paint or varnish look revitalized just by wiping some on with a rag. Since its formulated for art restoration I assume its not as dangerous to the model as the Goof Off mentioned above, which can and will strip old paint to the bare wood.

[Old Coasty]

I've  tried the Q-tip and have a nice clean area, however, when it dries the splotchy streaky look returns.  That Hatch in the seventh photo is a good example, it looks like it hasn't been cleaned, but saliva and Q-tip bring up no more dirt.  Will the Goldens MSA Varnish make it look as it does when still damp from cleaning?  Possibly it is lost varnish from aging on the deck and Hatch were I am trying it.  If so probably something like the MSA would be the next step.  Or should I try something like the Webber Cleaning Solution for Paintings?  Webber then recommends their Salamander Restorative to renew color brilliance of Oil or Alkyd paintings. Would the MSA be OK instead?  Mix and match of brands might be a problem.

 

I'm in foreign territory here, so please excuse my belaboring everything before I mess it up.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

The varnish is a shiny coating like any varnish but it does not claim to do anything other than form a coating. I would use the painting restoration stuff first. Who knows if the varnish would clear up the splotchy parts or merely preserve them under a transparent film? All manufacturers of every liquid of any kind always suggest you "try product in a small area first" to see if it causes something awful to happen. if you exhaust the soap and water and household cleaners with no effect,  I would try a very small dab of thinner swiped on with a Q-tip on some out of the way place and see if that doesn't do some good, it could be all you need.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Speaking of splotchy, is there any white fuzz growing out of the anchors windlass or other metal parts of the model? Little piles of whit powdery residue on deck? There was a common problem with off the shelf fittings made of metal where over time oxidation would cause the lead in the alloy to break down and form white fuzzy flakes. There is no cure for this.

[Jaager]

Rather than using saliva, would not distilled water be a better choice?  Saliva is certainly not residue free.  Among other components, it contains digestive enzymes.  Tap water contains minerals.  The water I had in central Kentucky could have had enough calcium to prevent Osteoporosis all by itself. 

Given the age, the clear finish could be shellac, which will form a white layer if it contacts water, or a varnish which is a mixture of an oil (like boiled Linseed) and shellac which is not water sensitive. 

An alcohol ( Methanol, Ethanol, or Isopropanol ) will remove shellac.  Mineral spirits or turpentine may remove varnish.

The painted surface may respond to non-sudsy dye free Ammonia cleaner. 

[Old Coasty]

One good thing is the metal is fuzz free.  All fittings were made by hand out of tin lead watch gears etc.  No off the shelf parts other than the anchors.

I have tried water with a little dish liquid in it, and it cleans like saliva, looks great while damp, then dries splotchy.  No indication of white spots when it got wet with the water.

Oh well, it's almost 2330 here in Washington state, so it's tomorrow for some of you.

Thanks for the help,

 

Bob

[figuerres]

Just wanted to say that part of what I wrote before did not really come out right.   two thoughts were competing when I was writing before:

document history and changes on one hand and making the right updates / repairs and while I did not mean "put in repairs that do not match the old parts" that was kind of how it came out.  just the idea that there should be a way for someone years later to work out from records / logs etc... what was done and when it was done and why it was done.   so that we have a history to follow.

 

I hope that clears up my prior confusing post.

[Old Coasty]

figuerres,

That makes sense to me now.  It was a little confusing before.  I intend to try to match as close as possible the replacement spar colors to the original.

[Old Coasty]

Janger,

 

I was reading (a lot) about cleaning etc, and the apparently enzymes are what makes the silava work so well on paintings.

[Old Coasty]

Jaager,

 

Sorry about misspelling you name.  Small type on the laptop.

 

Bob

[druxey]

It's better to ask questions than mess up, so ask away! I agree with Frankie that using aggressive solvents is to be avoided if possible. Suspect that Salamander Restorative is some varnish softening/dissolving formulation from on-line comments.

[Old Coasty]

Frankie,

The pictures of the restored bow you sent.  Did you take one after cleaning and before the MSA Varnish?  I'm trying to equate what I'm getting while cleaning to what you have shown.  As I say, it looks clean, even and dull while damp before drying.  That makes me want to believe it would be even after varnishing.  You said the MSA brings out the colors, but what did the bare cleaned deck look like. Maybe I should get some MSA Varnish and try it.  If it is easily removed, that would answer that question without getting to a point of no return, and getting too deeply into Chemical Disaster.

 

Incidentally, I tried the saliva  Q-tip routine on the other two models, and they clean great.  This one is the worst of the 3 here, one in storage is the newest, and not two messed up.  The other one I can't remember what condition it is in.

 

Anyone else have any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Bob

[JerseyCity Frankie]

The "clean" photo is of the completed model that has been varnished. I may have some "after cleaning but before varnish" photos but it would take some digging to get them out.

I think the models you have are going to clean up great and even if there is some discoloration on some of the surfaces, it will still have an overall good look,

I bought the fancy varnish only because I was working on a model for a client and didn't want to take any steps that could not be easily reversed. But if it was one of my OWN models I would have used whatever varnish was the least expensive and damn the problems of future generations of restorers.

[Old Coasty]

It's  getting scary, I'm starting to answer my own questions.  After getting some of the deck really clean, I can see the splotchy is really where the varnish is missing in a lot of places.  Same applies to masts and yards.  So on to more deep cleaning (saliva and also water with a little dish liquid).

 

My plan, open to suggestions if I'm headed in the wrong direction, is to finish cleaning all wood, and fittings.  Clean the Hull.  It is white paint, red Boot Topping and Green underwater Hull. Use a pre stain on new wood, and then stain to match current spars.  Then varnish all previously varnished wood. Then rerig what rigging that is messed up. 

 

My new questions are:

 

What should I use to clean the white, green and red paint on the hull?  The green and red are reasonably clean, the White is the question.   I going to try the non-sudsy dye free Ammonia cleaner first.  Is there any other option if that doesn't work?

 

Approximately 90% of the running rigging is fine.  The rest I can replace with similar but not the same color line.  If it is too obvious, should I replace all of it, or leave it be showing it is a restoration.  The standing rigging being Black, replacement will not be obvious so I will only replace what is busted.

 

Once again Thanks for watching and helping.

 

Bob

[Jaager]

Running rigging - moves, functions, is subject to stress, wears out and is replaced in actual vessels. Unless it was a denovo rigging, I doubt that the running rigging of most any vessel matched, so as long as your replacement is within the range of colors reported it should be fine.  Look to wood or fabric dyes for any color additions.  Using tea or similar substances adds an acidic component which can age and oxidize the fibers at an accelerated rate.

 

If the white paint does not clean with ammonia or dilute Dawn (then rinsed off)  - you may consider that it is possible that the paint itself has discolored with age.

 

As far as the varnish flaking off: I am thinking -

Properly prepped (first coat diluted shellac or dilute oil (Tung, boiled Linseed, Walnut, Danish) it may darken but it should not flake. You might consider removing what is there and redoing it properly.

[Old Coasty]

The finish does not appear to have flaked off, rather worn off.  Some appears to have been touched up, but not very evenly

 

New Questions.

 

Is there a way to tell if the model has varnish or shellac?

 

Can you varnish over shellac?

 

If I need to, what is the best way to remove the old varnish/shellac?

[Jaager]

Shellac is soluble in alcohol.  HomeDepot, paint stores, hardware stores - all I see now for shellac thinner is ethanol.  There used to be a lot of methanol (wood alcohol) products - but ethanol works and is not as toxic.  So, if alcohol removes it, it is shellac.

Varnish - I think paint thinner - mineral spirits or turpentine - will remove it. 

Shellac is an excellent primer for most anything else. The first coat  should be diluted 1:1 with alcohol.  You can follow on with full str shellac, old style varnish, polyurethane or other clear finishes or any paint.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Jaager