Chasseur

Update
 
machine room skylights (dry fit ) nearly complete.....
 
Nils
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

I'm sicker then a skunk today so I will be brief.  I tinkered on the GR and finished up the knightshead.
 
Going to bed...see everyone later.
 
Rob

Happy Birthday Nils and good to see the Brass Meister is back at it!
Blessings on your day*

Excellent work here Jond. You are a true artisan.
 
I love when nay sayers think things can't be done old school. People fail to believe things can't be sucessesfully scratch-built just as good as store bought or a 3D printer. Your gears look perfect to me and my experience when I worked off-shore was things looked a bit beat up and never perfect so your scale RC model will be very realistic and up to snuff!
 
Looking good my friend ... Jeff

Excellent work here Jond. You are a true artisan.
 
I love when nay sayers think things can't be done old school. People fail to believe things can't be sucessesfully scratch-built just as good as store bought or a 3D printer. Your gears look perfect to me and my experience when I worked off-shore was things looked a bit beat up and never perfect so your scale RC model will be very realistic and up to snuff!
 
Looking good my friend ... Jeff

Thanks for the comments and the "likes".  
 
The best laid plans of mice and men... an Admiralty meeting.  We discussed progress and plans then "if I can't see it, why do it?  You'll save a couple of months, right?".   "Err.. yes.  But I want to do it because it's there.  I'll know it."  Well, so much for argument.  It's her ship and I'll do it.  
 
So,.. I scraped the planking, added the oven and mizzen mast step and applied a coat of Wipe on Poly.   And then moved to the gundeck.  
 
Beams are in and the furniture on deck was salvaged from Version 1.  It's all destined for the scrapbox except for the riding bitts.  I just decided I can do better.   There's a dummy bowspit in place.  Carlings need to be added at various hatchways.
 
So... 4" of deck planking (except the center area which is 8") and 4" for the coamings.  4" thick coamings for the hatches on top of the 8" center area.  What else... planking will follow the French style of following the hull lines.  And the ceiling.   
 
Sorry for thinking out loud...   There's a pantry around the mizzen mast and rudder lines, a "cabinet" around the rudder, a step/storage at the transom along with all the other furniture on the gundeck.  The partition for the wardroom/Great Room is on the table as far as possible.  It was removable as was the captain's and executive officer's bedplace.   I won't get into all the politics and issues with the wardroom not being the Captain's cabin, roundhouses (Captain's bedplace and dayroom), etc.  
 
I'm done babbling.... I have my work cut out for me so here's pics.....
 

 

 

Thanks for looking in and either "liking" or commenting.  
 
Just a bit of an update.  Forgive me if I get longwinded as I'm thinking outloud here... and open to suggestion.
 
We're still slogging away at planking the lower (orlop) deck.  Thankfully, I have a Proxxon Belt Sander which makes tapering the planks go quickly and accurately.  I do finish fitting using sanding sticks though as a few times, things have got away from me ended up chewed up and across the room.  Fumble fingers I am.
 
The deck will still need serious sanding but that's on hold until after it's planked and the ceiling has been put it.  My thinking is why clean up two messes when I can do the whole thing once and clean up once.   
 
The mizzen mast step is in for location only and not glued.
 
This whole process has me thinking   further ahead than normal.. like the next two decks worth.  I should install two beams/carlings at each hatchway first then fully plank and cut out the hatchways after planking. The center planks do need to be tapered also (the raised planking) The hatches need to sit on top of the deck planks.  <facepalm>  I've also discovered that not all the hatches on this deck and the gundeck have grates.  Many have planks over the hatchways instead of grates.  
 
I'm also fiddling with plans and seeing if I can copy the Belle Poule planking scheme onto them.  This will let (hopefully) me cut the deck planks from a sheet of wood using the Deathstar.  The Great Cabin is still being researched.  The Belle Poule had a lozenge type parquet deck there.  Some other 8 pdr and 12 pdr frigates, just had straight planks...  so  I may end up flipping a coin.  Nah... I'm leaning towards the parquet and again, running the pattern up in Corel and lasercutting it.   I find I'm getting lazy in my old age.
 
Then there's the partitions on this deck and the gundeck (only 1 there) plus the cabins and storerooms.  I'm working on drawings to make templates for these.   It appears that the partition on the gundeck for the Great Cabin wasn't removable.  I'm still looking for info on this.  As a sidenote, the Great Cabin was a wardroom and not the Captains cabin.  There was a removable canvas partition in the center area for his bedplace which was taken down every morning.  The cabin itself and the quarter galleries was used by all the officers as a common room for meetings, rest, and meals.  There was a lot of complaining about this by the officers and even more after the edict was passed that roundhouses for the officers on the aft castle were not allowed.  They were allowed (unofficially) for awhile but had to be temporary in nature.  At the time of her capture, Licorne had quite a few which probably affected her handling.  I'm not putting those on as to my eye, they detract from her lines and appearance. 
 
I don't have the problem on this deck, but on the next up, using the Deathstar will let me mark accurately where all the eyebolts go around the main mast.
 
Anyway, enough out me.  Any thoughts or insights are, as always, appreciated.
 

Hi Mark -
 
Checking in again and love what I am seeing.  Those deck beams are very nicely done, and you should be justifiably proud of them.
 
As for decking, you have to be careful about the differences between British and French practice.  Since the French were strategically blockaded by the British for most of this period, their ship designs favored speed over carrying capacity.  With lighter hulls and scantlings they could make more knots, but the ships 'worked' much more than their British counterpart of similar size.  To counteract this they strengthened the decks with longitudinal stiffeners called binding strakes that were thicker and set into the deck beams, much the way the stringers stiffened the fuselage in those balsa wood planes we all built as kids.
 
Here are several contemporary cross sections of French ships.  Note that the outer binding strakes are set into the deck beams but do not rise above the deck surface. However, the ones toward the center rise above the rest of the deck level.  In fact, the entire center section of the deck is raised.  Frequently these binding strakes are shown on models as being contrasting color from the rest of the deck.  Whether this was true on actual ships, I do not know.
 
Further, as seen in the models, the gratings are set flush with this raised section of deck and do not have the coamings that are such a feature of British ships.
 
Didn't mean to make extra work for you, but hope it helps.
 
Be well
 
Dan
 
 
 
 
  

Hi Jond,
The PDF file is to big to post here. Please PM me with an email address and I'll send it to you. Also I was mistaken about the author it's actually Gene Bodnar.
You'll love this practicum ...he goes through the build from start to finish and in great detail. He has your answers your looking for.
Jeff

Jeff and Hamilton
 
Thanks for your comments.   Jeff thanks also for getting me to Gene Bodnar work; I have his practicum pdf.  I studied it a few years back and agree he is terrific and their model links are great too. They are available through their website....modelshipbuilderdotcom.  FYI  they say it is Philip Eisnor...and show him and his work as well as offer plans for sale.
 
Someday I plan to start slowly and to learn how to do plank on frame.  When I am able to do I, It hope to build some schooners like Bluenose and follow Genes guidance.  I am not ready to do that yet. also it will not be a 1/2 " to a foot scale!!!
 
I am doing some repairs today and getting ready to attach the first equipment...i will post it later and Jeff  my approach is amateurish but the metal work is not difficult.
 
cheers .

Thank you very much Keith,
 
for your encouraging compliment...
 
Nils
 

 
 

Spent some time working on the GR's anchors and catheads and whiskers.
 
Rob

BTW it's by Philip Eisner.

I found it. I will attach it here tomorrow when I am back in the office ... Jeff

As I mentioned earlier...I am just a beginner with carving.  But to get this group started, allow me the opportunity to describe the 4 basic cuts or techniques I used to carve the crown cipher and the other designs.  This is what I covered with my local club before we undertook the actual carving.  Because the pieces are so small, I used Playdoh to demonstrate the four cuts  we were going to start with.  It allowed us to demonstrate in larger scale so everyone could see it.
 
Once I am done with cut one....please do reply and let me know if this method to describe the cuts translates well enough for the web.  If you guys think this is a good method I will delete your replies and continue with the remaining three.....
 
So let me begin.
 
To start here is an exampled of the same cipher on a contemporary model.    It very plainly carved.  And its gilded.
 

 
Here is my first try also gilded.
 

 
 
When you download and print the design patterns here
 
scaledecorationschart.pdf
 
You will notice on the crown design below, that I added some lines and arrows....the short red lines indicate where we have stop cuts...to be explained later.   The dark vertical lines show the wood grain.  The arrows indicate suggested direction for slicing the laser char from the sides of your carving.  Either with a # 11 blade or chisel.  I used a #11 blade.  I recommend you indicate the grain direction on the enlarged designs before you begin...and also draw in where you will place your stop cuts to establish depth....and arrows to indicate what direction you will slice and carve in.  Its just good practice and a great exercise before the wood shavings start flying.  As you can see I only did this for some of the cuts on the crown cipher......feel free to fill in the others on your design sheet before you begin.
 

 
Note the left leg of the monogram.  It has an arrow in green.  This is used to demonstrate the importance in cut direction with your chisel or blade.
 
The playdough piece below represents this same part of the crown cipher.  Notice the grooves I added to represent the wood grain.
 

 
When you are slicing with your chisel or blade....I watched everyone in my club group begin.  It is logical that everyone would start with the design right side up.....and start with this leg of the design.  The goal when starting is just to slice away the laser char from the sides of the piece.  Most started slicing off small shavings in the direction shown below.  I did this also.
 
Its seems like the obvious way to do it.  But guess what happened?
 

 
The blade caught on the grain and either split the leg off entirely or creating a large chip along the grain direction which ruined the piece.....time to start again.  Can you see how this would happen?
 
Some also decided not to slice or chisel away the char as they were shaping the edges.  They decided to scrape it off with the edge of the #11 blade.  Not only did this make a horrible noise...I wouldnt recommend this approach.  It leaves a dirty and rough surface that wont take a finish well.  It just doesnt look good.  Since we are trying to learn carving its best to try cutting or chiseling.  Very tiny thin shavings....dont try to remove too much.  This takes time to do.  Its very delicate work.
 
Instead
 
Slice in the other direction as shown below.
 

 
This may seem obvious to most but it is well worth mentioning.   This completes the first type of basic cut used on these pieces.  Its real beginner stuff but hopefully useful.   Analyze your piece for the wood grain and its direction and pre-plan the direction of your cuts to avoid splitting and ruining your piece.
 
You can do this ahead of time by drawing arrows on your printed design sheet. 
 
Let me know guys if this way of explaining the four basic cuts works....if it does....I will continue on with basic cut number two.....the stop cut.  God I love the smell of playdoh!!!!!!
 
Chuck

Hey Ken
One of those crazy redneck drivers from way down south is headed up your direction in the mountains next week. Blow your horn and show me a West Virginia Howdy if I'm driving too slow.  

Hi Julie
 
Thanks, but now I'm blushing! I really appreciate your comments and like you, I'm constantly amazed (and sometimes envious) at the skills that other modellers have. I guess that's what makes MSW such a great place.
 
All the best!
 
Cheers Patrick

I currently have half models of the clippers Lightning, Cutty Sark and I will be making one for the Sovereign of the Seas.
 
Rob 

Rob, I am quite certain that this model was used to shape the hull  and then to take off the offsets.  This process did not require tracing of segmented lifts but could be done from measurements.  Either process may have been used.   The segments could have later been assembled and finished.  
 
I expect that the model was given some detail as shown for purposes of describing it to and negotiating with the owners.   I assume the scale to be 1:48.  This process was common practice by Webb and very likely other American builders and perhaps Brits as well.
 
Ed

Thank you, Glenn.  Most kind.  When I saw over 50 notifications in my box, I figured someone was doing some catchup. 
 
Rob, the picture is attached.  Look familiar?
 
Ed
 
 

Nils
 
Brass is the right choice - they look so good. It may be time consuming but time hangs heavy on idle hands.

I thought it to be good to share some visuals from my research.  They explain some of the decisions I have made as I move forward to build out the deck equipment.  The research started with a trip to the Fisherman's Museum of the Atlantic in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia a few years ago. My vocabulary is probably off on several of the following items. It would be fun to learn of some sources where I could learn more about this equipment, its proper nomenclature and operations.
One key feature is shown here in their website image and description of the schooner Theresa E Connor. She was built in the same ship yard as Bluenose in 1938. She is smaller, but I trust many features are very similar.  

The following 6 views I took while on board. They focus on the anchor and running line winches on the fore deck and I used these to figure out what I needed to build.
 
here we are looking aft at the pivot style break levers for the anchors.

 
 here we walk a bit aft and see the running line winch and the chain drive that goes to the anchor winch.

 
as we turn around we see a few things.  First the engine box is just that...a box.  The drive chain comes out the side inboard and runs forward with a guard board above and one on the side shown later on Bluenose. The drive wheel axle for the winch is housed on a bracket off the engine box.  [ this is a smaller rig than Bluenose].  Also see the posts simply sit on the deck planking.  The vertical clutch arm engages the chain drive going forward.  I believe but did not see if the spools are un-engaged while transferring to the anchor winch.  I fear not!

 
 Here the full anchor rig  is visible including details of the "wild cat" [i have been told]. Dumb me thought that chain goes to the 'wild cat' [ starboard side with palls etc. to control the chain] and the rope [for deeper anchoring] goes on the smooth barrel to port.  Hold that thought for a moment..I was obviously wrong.

 
I show this hatch because it has doors.  Doors are simple and much more practical for a fishing voyage.  The Philip Eisnor plan show planks.  I suggest planks are OK  for occasional racing, but I think I vote for doors on Bluenose.  I would love to hear other's comments.

 
In this view we see the smooth barrel and notice no larger planks under the winch posts and rails.  Small added planks are under the steel drive assembly.  I am concerned about load transferred from the anchor into deck planking....see below

Here I borrow cut and cropped images from photos on line with the Nova Scotia Archives. Their image number is in the link
 
Here one can see a few things that I am  using for my interpretation of the older fishing schooner... Through the snow you can see the waterways are dark...the same tone as the planking..but lighter than black.
through the snow you see a thick plank under the anchor winch supports.  I have added those to my boat  and painted them white...  I may change them to brown.
Note the anchor chain goes directly from hawse to smooth barrel  then lays on deck back toward the chain box.  Chain box only on port side.   I have something to learn here.

Here are a few more items for consideration: In this cut image one can see the black tool box that sits forward of the engine box.  It is backed up to the guard boards above and inboard  the chain drive for the hoists. I used the photo of Theresa E Connor to complete this. Smaller scale models keep one out of this dialogue
One can also see dead eyes are similar top and bottom...that is for later.

 here there are also a few points almost completing my study of this area: see the legs of the winch support are black...I think they are clad on top after much ware. They probably started out white.
See the inboard guard rail on the drive chain off the engine box and tool box on the left.
see the mystery box in the foreground.  I think it is another vent hatch from below....not sure.  that is what I am building oh no!  just looking now I see I need to add a sheet metal guard on the large anchor drive wheel
note the thick lines under what I thought was the wild cat head chain barrel....It looks like I have had it backwards for some time.  Line on the starboard side chain to port...OK got it.  

OK next post we try to make this stuff.. fun trips to the hardware store
 
cheers 
.

Thanks Eamonn.
 
After that somewhat extensive, and obviously 'brilliant' explanation (which I think you'd agree didn't quite go to plan  ) it's back to something simpler – sailmaking (hang on, did I just say simpler ? )
 
I was originally going to call it the 'January Sails' (do ya get it, january sales, january sails – eh? oh, never mind), but I got a bit behind, so March is now officially 'staysail month' .
 
Apologies, btw, for the rather dark last photo. The weather's not too brilliant in these climes at this time of year. (Sun? Never heard of it...)

The preventer stay was made in a similar way to the fore stay, except that it is of smaller circumference and employs a pair of hearts at its lower end. I used 0.7 black thread for the stay, and 0.25 black thread for the serving. As with the forestay, the stay was served above the mouse (a smaller piece of wood than that for the forestay, and painted black) where it passes around the mast. The measurements were again fairly critical to get all parts of it in the correct position, with the mouse sitting just above the larger one on the forestay.
 
  
 
I was unable to find hearts of the right size – or at least what I thought looked right to the eye, and according to the AOTS Alert book. The smallest I could find were 7mm, which were to my mind too large. I then thought to drill out two of the 3mm deadeyes that I had, which looked to be about right for the job, and stained them. I think they look acceptable. The lower of them was seized to a strop attached to an eyebolt on the stemhead, whilst the other was seized into the lower end of the preventer stay. The lower of the two hearts just clears the large deadeye on the lower stay.
 
There is no ‘snaking’ line between the forestay and preventer stay, as this would have prevented the staysail from being hoisted and lowered on the former.
 

 
I had hoped to include the rigging of the topgallant stay with this posting, but one or two problems have arisen which will be explained next time.
 

There are a pair of belaying pins in the small rail situated on the port and starboard quarters. Originally I provided these for the (lower) spread yard braces and the gaff vangs – before I discovered that vangs, at least on cutters, had not then been introduced. Thus the forward one is now a spare. There is also an eyebolt on each rail for a lead block, through which the braces will pass before being belayed.
 
Moving forward, on each side of the companion I provided shot garlands for the 3pdr guns, and these are also situated on each side of the other hatches. Garlands are also fixed to the bulwarks, between the guns. The aftermost, between the last pair of guns on each side, actually contain only three balls – and one belaying pin. This is to belay the falls of the running backstays, when they are rigged. The balls themselves are made from the round parts of a cheap necklace, which just happened to be the right size – and are definitely surplus to my wife’s requirements! Each ball was cut from the chain, tidied up, painted and then glued in place. (Btw, I usually use a thin stick with a small blob of blue tack on one end, to lightly pick up and glue small objects like this. I find it works quite well, and one can place items rather more accurately than with the fingers.)
 
We now come to the guns, which I have mentioned before as having caused a certain amount of trouble with relation to the ports! For each gun I provided a pair eyebolts in the bulwarks to take the breech ropes, another pair for the side tackles, and one in the deck behind each gun for the running-in tackle. The latter, of course, should really have a ring through it. I decided not to rig the side or running-in tackles, which perhaps was an ommission and, again with hindsite, I think the breech ropes are not really thick enough. However…
 

 
Each of the hatches was given a coaming, this being caulked into the surrounding planks and raised a little above deck level. I decided to fill in the hatches themselves with offcuts from the kit and paint them black, before fitting the red gratings, to give a sense of depth. This seemed to work reasonably well, the main hatch in any case being largely hidden by the boat.
 
We now come to that aforementioned very necessary item of equipment – without which, no vessel is really complete! I copied a suitable drawing, from ’The Boats of Men of War’ by WE May, which was about the right size that I needed. The boat was constructed on a small building board, with scale frames and planking, the latter being mostly card since it was much easier to work and shape. The gunwale, which is made from wood, has rowlocks cut in it. The interior was then fitted out with thwarts, resting on internal stringers, sternsheets, and a small foredeck. The inside was painted grey, and fitted with bottom-boards which were painted red. This I thought both made for a nice contrast with the main interior, and also matched the red of the cutter herself. I painted the outside the same ivory shade I had used below the cutter’s waterline, and the gunwale is black. To finish off, the oars were made from orange sticks, with thin card for the blades, and painted white. Thin black paper made suitable leathers. The rudder was made from thin ply, with a wood rudder stock, and there is a separate tiller. A coiled painter was provided on the foredeck. The boat was lashed down to four ring bolts in the deck.
 
On either side of the boat are the pumps. I modified the base of these, although I used the metal top and handle. Their bases were cut at an angle, so that the imaginary ’business end’ of the pump shaft would be adjacent to the keel, where the water would normally collect. The handle is connected by a brass rod mechanism , actually the stem of a cut-off ringbolt, and there is a short outfall pipe on the outboard side of each pump. The base of the pump and the handle are painted red, the former also having two ’iron’ bands, made from black paper, around them.
 

 
Forward of the boat and main hatch, and just aft of the mast, are the jeer bitts. This structure was not included in the kit, being an addition of my own, but it is certainly a feature of cutters of the period, as is evidenced by models and pictures. It consists of two uprights, with a geared roller at the top and a crossbar beneath and, as its name suggests, it is used for hoisting purposes. The gearing on either end of the top roller, is actually just pencilled lines drawn on the black-painted ends, but it looks effective enough. There is a winding handle on each end, made from pieces of bent wire.
 
I originally fitted six eyebolts to the deck, to take the various tackles connected to the running rigging that will be belayed to cleats fitted around the base of the mast. I am now not certain I will use all of them, and actually since then I have fitted another two outboard of the anchor cable, one on each side, as giving a better lead. However, one never knows.
 
Abreast the mast on either bulwark, are two pinrails, with six pins in each. These were supplied with the kit and at the time of fitting them, the number of pins seemed barely adequate. In fact, with rather more rigging seemingly to be belayed, I think they may be woefully inadequate. I should perhaps made have my own rail, with extra pins – but I tell myself, I can always resort to shroud cleats if necessary!
 
Forward of the mast is a rail. This again was supplied with the kit, but I added six belaying pins to the crossbar, as I intend to belay the the square sail sheets here. Ahead of that is the foredeck grating, down to the crews quarters, with the shot garlands on either side. Offset to the starboard side I fitted a chimney, painted black, and which I imagine connects to the stove below!
 
Next we come to the bowsprit support, from the kit. This was straightforward, but I felt that it needed pinning as well as gluing to the deck. The heel of the dowel-rod bowsprit was squared, to pass through the support, and I drilled two extra holes through it, to give the impression that the bowsprit can be moved in and out.
 
I wasn’t too happy with the anchor windlass as supplied, as I felt it didn’t look at all realistic, the completely straight windlass bar being rather strangely made up from short sections! I redesigned it to my own liking, giving it a proper shape, with hexagonal faces. The central section, was made to look as if it had toothed gearing, that engaged with the small bar-mounted rachet, but this again was merely pencilled on the black finish. The equidistant holes for the bars were also just painted black, on the red structure. I had thought about providing the bars themselves, but then the lack of a place to stow them arose – so I stored them below!
 
The anchors also needed some attention. The anchors themselves I thought were well cast and with the minimum of flash, but the wooden stocks – made as in actual practice from two halves - needed some considerable modification. To begin with they were too long, so I reduced the length at each end so that they were approximately the same length as the metal shank – which fitted with the proportions for an anchor of this type. They then needed sanding somewhat. The modified arms were then glued together around the shank, below the ring, at a ninety degree angle to the arms. Four ’iron’ bands, made from black paper, were then glued around the stocks at appropriate points. Finally, the anchor rings were ’puddened’, or wound round with black cord, which on the real vessel helps to prevent chafe. The anchors are held in their stowed position, by to two supports on the outside of the bulwarks – my own invention – although I think I may have made them a little overlarge. They are also made fast with a length of line, belayed to the two aftermost timber heads. The anchor cables are lengths of plaited cord, that I thought looked somewhat realistic. They are perhaps a little overscale, but I think they do the job. Running aft past the mast, their inboard ends disappear down the fore end of the main hatch, in which I made two squared holes. Their other ends are ’clinched’ to the anchor ring, their circumference making them too large, of course, to tie a knot!
 
The catheads needed little modification, and are basically as supplied. I didn’t give them any decoration, merely a couple of paper ’iron’ bands, before painting them black. Due to the lack of suitable belaying places I decided to fit a crossbar between the catheads, over the bowsprit, with some pins. Two of these are already taken up, by the inhaul and outhaul lines for the traveller ring, for the staysail. Finally, there is a band around the top of the stem piece, with a ringbolt on the fore side to take the preventer stay when rigged.
 
 
Next time: the outboard details, the bowsprit and the mast.