JPZ66

That would be quite a find if that's the ship and can be salvaged to any degree ! Fascinating ! Thanks for posting that link.
 
Joe

As someone who grew up on the Hamble River, exploring the wrecks, the coves, inlets and the marshes of the river. As a kid, what's more exciting than that?!? I knew of the wreck of Gracedieu from an early age. I remember hearing stories of the wreck being "a Spanish Galleon seeking shelter from raging storms" and "an almighty French naval ship preparing to disembark it's troops to run amuck in the English countryside en route to London".
 
In 2000 (ish) a TV Archaeology team (Time Team) came and surveyed the wreck and they confirmed the wreck was in fact the 60+ metre Gracedieu. As far as I am aware they had a limited time to excavate and investigate the wreck (about 6 hours dive time a day for 1 week). The Hamble is probably the best place for a ship wreck, as the tidal range within the river is very low (Neap Tides - 2.6m to 4.8m / Spring Tides - 2.6m to 5.6m), but is very strong, often on the flood and ebb tidal periods. The chalky-clay silt is disrupted during each flood and ebb tidal period (lasting about 6 hours), and the silt ends up covering wrecks and obstructions of the flow of water/silt. Eventually the silt builds up over a wreck or obstruction and preserves almost all natural elements that can be found in that area (wood/iron/bone/leather).
 
The discovery of the Holigost is certainly ground breaking. The river spans a maximum of 300 m at the point where both wrecks are, so I'm generally impressed that both ships were able to get that far up river (about 16 to 18 Km from Southampton Water). The river certainly is deep enough for a large ship of up to 1200 Tonnes to transit as far Bursledon, but the river shallows out fairly sharply after that point.
 
HMS Elephant (1786) was built by George Parsons on the bank of the Hamble, on the meander of the river near Bursledon. The yard is now called the Elephant Boatyard, and I believe has been owned by the Parson family (in one guise or another) since then.
 
In 1905 (ish), a Celtic or Viking Longboat was discovered about 1 Km up river from the present location of the Gracedieu. The Longboat was found in what was known as Cathead Bay opposite Smugglers Creek. The wreck was discovered during dredging of the river to allow the owner of the adjoining land to move his livestock by river to Southampton. The longboat measured 20 m in length and was almost intact. I believe the wreck was excavated and removed during the 1950's.
 
My Grandparents have lived on the bank of the Hamble for nearly 50 years, and from their garden, there are wrecks of many vessels. Immediately on their part of the river bank is a wreck of a 19th Century Coal Trader. This was 90' in length and apparently was scuttled there after a fire on board, circa 1875.

The Norseman is another wreck on the Hamble (around Swanwick) that is of some importance. It was a regular trading Schooner, registered in Brooklyn, NY, to Southampton and the surrounding rivers and estuaries. The Norseman was built in 1886, and was wrecked by fire in 1949, some 63 years after being built. In 1926 (ish) the Schooner was sold to a private trader, and registered with Lloyds of London, with a home port of Southampton. The Norseman changed hands a few time between 1936 and 1949, and the reason for the fire that gutted her, is still unknown.

The two images below are wrecks of vessels abandoned either during or post WW2. The Hamble river was pivotal for the success of the D-Day Landings in 1944, where the whole river, the surrounding boatyards, and many of the vessels on the river were requisitioned by the War Effort to store and embark the troops and supplies on to Landing Craft, barges and Supply Ships. My Grandfather (aged 9) can remember being chased by two American Soldiers as he and some friends ran across the river from Swanwick to Bursledon via landing craft. They were then caught by three Canadian Soldiers and handed back to their mothers, and got a whip round the ear for being naughty.





 
The hulk of the J Class yacht Velsheda was also kept in a mud berth on the Hamble, and had been left to rot there for some 40 or 50 years before being bought and restored by Terry Brabant in 1984.
 
Sorry for prattling on about all the wrecks and interesting facts about the Hamble River, but it's been my home for all my life, and it's such an interesting area to explore.
 
Cheers
Jonny

That would be quite a find if that's the ship and can be salvaged to any degree ! Fascinating ! Thanks for posting that link.
 
Joe

That would be quite a find if that's the ship and can be salvaged to any degree ! Fascinating ! Thanks for posting that link.
 
Joe

That would be quite a find if that's the ship and can be salvaged to any degree ! Fascinating ! Thanks for posting that link.
 
Joe

That would be quite a find if that's the ship and can be salvaged to any degree ! Fascinating ! Thanks for posting that link.
 
Joe

Deck planking.
Increasing thickness around masts and bowsprit.
Now is time to think to the cabin.

Cabin trunk is growing.

Found this very brief video on YouTube....a quick overview of the process, but gives you the idea....
 

Here is a link to a thesis that some may find interesting and was / is the basis for "Ships' Bilge Pumps" , Oertling, a book published by Texas A&M University press.
http://nautarch.tamu.edu/Theses/pdf-files/Oertling-MA%201984.pdf
 
- Joe

Thanks Greg, Nick, George and Keith.
 
 
Gee, sorry George. Just a 4x magnifier .
 
 
Lots of practice???
 
Here's your pic Keith :
 

 
  Danny

Thank you Dan and Don.
 
I've done quite a lot on the boat lately, but haven't updated the Log so there will be a fair bit coming up .
 
I've painted the hull in similar fashion to Chuck's. The Friezes were hand-painted with a toothpick :
 

 

 

 
The Parrels were a bit of fun to thread onto the boom yoke :
 

 
Now came the time to fix the mast to the swivelling thwart and try it out to see if my plan was going to work - a close shave, but all was good :
 

 

 

 

 

 
  Danny

Thanks Sal, Bob and Per.
 
 
I used furniture wax on the wooden plug, and glued each plank by wiping the glue over the seam instead of trying to glue the edge.
 
To prevent the hull from spreading while fitting the ribs I made a jig. I had that problem with my Cutter - this will do the job nicely :
 

 

 
Here's a tip for edge sanding very small or thin planks - another jig :
 

 
  Danny

Hi all,
 
A while ago I'd intended to build a Real de France in a bottle, but I've changed my mind on that as it's going to be a present for my girlfriend and she wasn't keen on the ship. I've since deleted the topic I'd started.
 
So I've gone with her preference, which is a model of Chuck Passaro's 18th Century Longboat in a much smaller scale (1:100). It might be just a tad easier than the R de F . Here's a pic of the finished article (Chuck's, not mine) :
 

 
I have a very nice (empty ) bottle of Dimple Scotch Whiskey which will be suitable, as I'm intending to build with a lofted mast and oars. The triangular shape of the bottle will accommodate both these features nicely. The bottle is 200mm long (including the neck) by 90mm wide/high
 
Here's a pic of a scale pic of the boat in the bottle, just to make sure it fits . These two pics are about the same size as the real thing will be :
 

 
  Danny

Found this very brief video on YouTube....a quick overview of the process, but gives you the idea....
 

Hi,
 
There are a couple of ways to go about this process...I won't go into that except for this much ....
 
You can create a master...from nearly any material, mold it in a type of heat resistant silicone, and make injected waxes for the investment casting process, or you can create wax masters for either 'one off' ( risky ) or to use for other forms of molding, and again making additional wax copies for the investment process.
 
The "Investment" is a type of refractory grade material, similar in appearance to plaster, but capable of allowing very high temperature materials to be poured or cast into it. Brass, silver, gold, platinum, etc.
 
No matter which way you tackle the front end work, once you create a 'tree' of wax masters and set up, pour and create the investment mold, the mold is then cured and baked in a high temp oven for very specific cycle of temps and time to both cure the investment AND melt out the wax masters....leaving behind the exact cavity of the master which then gets filled with your casting Metal. - The 'Flask' ( the part that is the investment mold in a metal cylinder ) will be taken from the oven or kiln, and either gravity or vacuum cast with the metal that is ready and waiting. The flask needs to be at a quite high temp when this is done. Again, a separate topic all its' own....for another thread maybe one day.
 
Throughout the process, there is a small percentage of shrinkage produced at the different stages, and knowing both the molding materials and the final casting materials will be a part of the initial design...i.e; the original master is often created at anywhere from 1-3% oversize to account for this. For very small parts this process shrinkage may not be noticeable, but if the parts have a bit more size or mass, and are requird to fit as a part of an assembly.....well, you get the idea.
 
The good thing about creating a silicone mold for wax injecting, is that if you decide you want more of the castings, you simply make more of them and repeat the investment process for more metal castings.
 
BTW - there are quite a few silicone mold materials to choose from and the type of investment will depend on the desired finish, type and temp of the metal to be cast....none of these parts of the process are " one size fits all ".
 
I hope I have not added any confusion here....hopefully it sheds a little light on the process. There are a few decent videos on the internet out there, but most that I have seen are less han satisfactory for really explaining things well.
 
- Joe

I should also like to mention, that when multiple waxes are created, they will each need to be imspected, cleaned up (of parting lines, etc) and assembled into a 'tree'...looks a lot like a Christmas tree when done, and then is ready to be made into the investment mold stage....the great part about investment molded metal castings, is that they have no parting lines...only the attachment point of gates and vents, which are easily trimmed and cleaned.
 
It is certainly possible to create low temp metal castings at home, but there are a number of downsides. Foremost of them is that the low temp metals available typically do not have much strength and many will 'rot' over time. Some contain lead. For low temp metal castings, you can simply mold your master in a high temp resistant silicone and won't need to worry about any plaster molds or the like. If you are a DIY'er...Please follow the directions of any casting kit you buy and be very carefull with even the low temp metals...they most certainly can cause serious injury to you and your household equipment if not handled properly.
 
When you move up a step to actual shop castings, one must consider there are a number of different formulas even for brass. Not very home casting friendly due to the required temperatures, proper crucibles and so on.
 
I was supposed to have my shop up and running by now, but got sidetracked with a different venture......at any rate, I will be setting up my casting operation in the coming months, and will once again be able to cast large or small quantities in everything from resin to lead free pewter / brittania, brass, silver and gold ( forget about platinum ! )
 
Anyone desiring more information about molding, casting in resin or metal, feel free to shoot me an email with your questions. I'm happy to assist if I can.
 
- Joe

Found this very brief video on YouTube....a quick overview of the process, but gives you the idea....
 

Found this very brief video on YouTube....a quick overview of the process, but gives you the idea....
 

Hi,
 
There are a couple of ways to go about this process...I won't go into that except for this much ....
 
You can create a master...from nearly any material, mold it in a type of heat resistant silicone, and make injected waxes for the investment casting process, or you can create wax masters for either 'one off' ( risky ) or to use for other forms of molding, and again making additional wax copies for the investment process.
 
The "Investment" is a type of refractory grade material, similar in appearance to plaster, but capable of allowing very high temperature materials to be poured or cast into it. Brass, silver, gold, platinum, etc.
 
No matter which way you tackle the front end work, once you create a 'tree' of wax masters and set up, pour and create the investment mold, the mold is then cured and baked in a high temp oven for very specific cycle of temps and time to both cure the investment AND melt out the wax masters....leaving behind the exact cavity of the master which then gets filled with your casting Metal. - The 'Flask' ( the part that is the investment mold in a metal cylinder ) will be taken from the oven or kiln, and either gravity or vacuum cast with the metal that is ready and waiting. The flask needs to be at a quite high temp when this is done. Again, a separate topic all its' own....for another thread maybe one day.
 
Throughout the process, there is a small percentage of shrinkage produced at the different stages, and knowing both the molding materials and the final casting materials will be a part of the initial design...i.e; the original master is often created at anywhere from 1-3% oversize to account for this. For very small parts this process shrinkage may not be noticeable, but if the parts have a bit more size or mass, and are requird to fit as a part of an assembly.....well, you get the idea.
 
The good thing about creating a silicone mold for wax injecting, is that if you decide you want more of the castings, you simply make more of them and repeat the investment process for more metal castings.
 
BTW - there are quite a few silicone mold materials to choose from and the type of investment will depend on the desired finish, type and temp of the metal to be cast....none of these parts of the process are " one size fits all ".
 
I hope I have not added any confusion here....hopefully it sheds a little light on the process. There are a few decent videos on the internet out there, but most that I have seen are less han satisfactory for really explaining things well.
 
- Joe

Epoxy putty is a great material to use for sculpting the main clothing, and lead foil is useful for straps and such. The putty can be mixed. rolled out, flattened, applied and sculpted to final shape. Work in layers - just as you would get dressed- it's not as hard as you might think.
 
-Joe

I agree,this is the result I achieved using a multi stage process incorporating gilding paste followed by sealing then an acrylic wash,finally drybrushing to accentuate the depth.More detail in my Caroline log.
 

 

 
Kind Regards
 
Nigel

We should definitely NOT try to immolate them.
 
I actually think that might be illegal, in the U.S. at least.

Hi,
 
There are a couple of ways to go about this process...I won't go into that except for this much ....
 
You can create a master...from nearly any material, mold it in a type of heat resistant silicone, and make injected waxes for the investment casting process, or you can create wax masters for either 'one off' ( risky ) or to use for other forms of molding, and again making additional wax copies for the investment process.
 
The "Investment" is a type of refractory grade material, similar in appearance to plaster, but capable of allowing very high temperature materials to be poured or cast into it. Brass, silver, gold, platinum, etc.
 
No matter which way you tackle the front end work, once you create a 'tree' of wax masters and set up, pour and create the investment mold, the mold is then cured and baked in a high temp oven for very specific cycle of temps and time to both cure the investment AND melt out the wax masters....leaving behind the exact cavity of the master which then gets filled with your casting Metal. - The 'Flask' ( the part that is the investment mold in a metal cylinder ) will be taken from the oven or kiln, and either gravity or vacuum cast with the metal that is ready and waiting. The flask needs to be at a quite high temp when this is done. Again, a separate topic all its' own....for another thread maybe one day.
 
Throughout the process, there is a small percentage of shrinkage produced at the different stages, and knowing both the molding materials and the final casting materials will be a part of the initial design...i.e; the original master is often created at anywhere from 1-3% oversize to account for this. For very small parts this process shrinkage may not be noticeable, but if the parts have a bit more size or mass, and are requird to fit as a part of an assembly.....well, you get the idea.
 
The good thing about creating a silicone mold for wax injecting, is that if you decide you want more of the castings, you simply make more of them and repeat the investment process for more metal castings.
 
BTW - there are quite a few silicone mold materials to choose from and the type of investment will depend on the desired finish, type and temp of the metal to be cast....none of these parts of the process are " one size fits all ".
 
I hope I have not added any confusion here....hopefully it sheds a little light on the process. There are a few decent videos on the internet out there, but most that I have seen are less han satisfactory for really explaining things well.
 
- Joe

A bit late perhaps, but possibly useful for others.... If the photoetched parts are in layer or have little to no stress on them, using clear lacquer applied via artist brush works well as a "glue".
 
-Joe