Louie da fly

Hans; The Age of the Galley doesn't mention colours at all. And all the illustrations are in black and white. You might try looking for Ancient Greek representations of galleys, which could have colours. I did a google image search for "ancient greek ship art" and among all the modern pictures there were some genuine Ancient representations. Unfortunately most of them are on pottery in "red and black ware", in which everything (including the people) is either red or black. So not much help there, but for what it's worth, the link is here. Steven

Nice one. It's on my wish list as well. Lots of good reading there, and very detailed and comprehensive. I've been through it twice (from the library) and I feel like I've barely scratched the surface. Steven

Could be, but the upright is on a bit of an angle to vertical, which I don't usually expect to see on bitts. But I can't think of anything else it could be - it certainly seems the likeliest possibility.

Sharpie, I agree about the lure of the unknown. Its exciting to try working out how something might have been, rather than have it all spelled out in black and white.For me, the speculation and experimentation is one of the most interesting facets of this hobby. The pump might still be an air pump - apparently on the Olympias reconstruction the lowest oarsmen had trouble with overheating (and also with dehydration). I'm currently researching a Byzantine dromon, and air access is still one of the major problems that nobody knows the answer to. The general opinion is that dromoi, which were fully decked above the lower bank of oars, must have had a lot of gratings in the deck, and probably air scoops and pumps. But nobody knows for sure. On current theory there just wouldn't have been enough air for the lower deck oarsmen to keep going. By the way, in Olympias, they weren't able to tension the hypozomata sufficiently with traditional materials and had to use steel cable. Yet another of these unknowns - how did they do it back in the day? (I looked up the Ancient Greek meaning of hypozomata - it's a bit strange. Hypo is "under" - as in hypodermic syringe. But zomata is a plural word - the singular is zoma, and it means something that is girdled - like a tunic with a belt, for example. Why they'd use a plural word for a single cable I don't know, unless it indicates a cable made of other ropes twisted together? In Ancient Greek times it would have been pronounced somethinglike hoopoZOMata (emphasis on the third syllable), but by Roman times the pronunciation may well have changed to be more like modern Greek - eepoZOMata.) Steven

Lovely work, Hans. A very interesting build.

The work might be boring to do, but the care and attention to detail have made sure that the result is magnificent.

I'm glad you're ok with it. I was a bit worried that I might have come across like some kind of fault-finding miseryguts, rather than trying to help. When I was doing re-enactment there was a breed of person known popularly as an authenticity fascist. They would look at something someone else was very proud of and tear it to pieces. It took all the fun out of it. And funnily enough they were usually blind to faults in their own stuff . . . Anyhow, my time in re-enactment has meant I can put my own experience and knowledge in things like costume to the service of my friends in ship modelling, just as others with more experience have been able to help me in things I'm a total newbie at . And if there's anything I can help with, I'm very happy to do so. Steven

The pepper wreck is a very interesting and worthwhile resource, but it has to be remembered that it's about 100 years later than the ship you're planning to model, and there were quite a few changes in ship design over that period. There's some good info on Portuguese naus (carracks) at http://nautarch.tamu.edu/shiplab/indianau02iconography.htm and http://nautarch.tamu.edu/shiplab/00-pdf/Castro%202009%20-%20PepperWreckSails.pdf, including some good stuff on the Pepper wreck itself. Steven

Looking very good, Hans. I'm following progress with great interest. Steven

It's looking very good, Ben. A lovely, elegant shape. Steven

John, that's a nice figure you've got from Fredericus Max, but could do with a bit of adjustment of it's to be mid-16th century. That hood with the "battlemented" lower border is a century or two too early for the Mary Rose, but if you just smoothed off the "battlements" it should look pretty good. Steven

Looking really good, Dick. You're doing a wonderful job with this build. Steven

You've done a beautiful job of these figures, Tim. I take my hat off to you. The only thing I might suggest is that the archers' bows are a bit thick and might be better pared down somewhat. However, this might not be practical and if so, don't worry about it, as it's a very minor point. Steven

I came across this term in a book about sailing ships in the 19th century (may have been Two Years Before the Mast) applied to whaling ships, where unlike other ships, whalers have "crows nests", and that's one of the things that distinguishes them from other ships. Unfortunately, the term seems to have been so widely understood that the author doesn't bother to explain what it was about a crows nest that made it different from a normal ship's top.

There was also a very worthwhile discussion of this subject in an earlier thread at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/3952-dioramas-water-related-photos-hints-tips-and-videos/ . Might be of help.

Hi Dick! I just discovered a website dealing with the excavation of the wreck of the Lomellina, a large Genoese ship with 300 men aboard, which sank in Villefranche harbour in 1516. Some interesting stuff there, including the capstan, rudder, port lids etc. It's at http://archeonavale.org/lomellina/an/l_6a.html and there's more at http://www.culture.gouv.fr/fr/archeosm/archeosom/en/lomel-s.htm It seems to me that quite a bit of this information could be relevant to your build. Best wishes, Steven

I've just added some more pics of common sailors' clothing - this time to Tarbrush's build log for Mary Rose. You might find them of use. I'm following both these logs with great interest.

The Embarkation is a useful painting (it's on display in Hampton Court Palace, if anyone wants to see the original and take some photos). However, though I believe the costumes are to be relied on, I cant say the same for at least some of the details of the ships - square sails on the mizzen masts, and rectangular forecastles, which I just don't believe. I think the painter wasn't all that familiar with ships, and got some things wrong. So whether the running rigging (for example) is to be relied on, I just don't know. (It conflicts with that shown in the Anthony Roll, but perhaps that's wrong and the Embarkation is right - or maybe they're both right for different times the ship was seen).. I found a few more pics - another couple of oarsmen (I took this one myself at Hampton Court), and some detail photos of a reproduction leather jerkin based on one found on board the Mary Rose. Unfortunately, I didn't think to take an overall photo of the jerkin itself - I was more interested in how it was put together. Plus a chart of where leather jerkins of different styles were found.

I've put some detail views from the contemporary painting The Embarkation of Henry VIII at Dover of sailors on Henry VIII's ships on Chidokan's Mary Rose Cross Section thread, which mght be of help.

Here are some detail views from the picture The Embarkation of Henry VIII at Dover I mentioned above, showing some of the sailors at work. Funnily enough, their clothes look very like those of Jack Tar in Nelson's navy - most wear long loose trousers and a plain jacket. So it may be easier to find figures for common sailors than it first appeared. But the two guys rowing the boat seem to be better and more fashionably dressed. And - look, mum! No footropes! I've noted, also, both from this painting and the Anthony Roll, most of the ships' boats are double-ended. The Embarkation should also serve as a guide for colours for the upper classes. By the way, on the Mary Rose they found quite a large number of leather jerkins , with decorative slashing. I'll see if I can find some photos from when I visited in 2009.

Your Batavia is beautiful.

For the Wars of the Roses, you'd be looking at a carrack. Woodrat has a very good build log at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4915-venetian-carrack-or-nave-tonda-by-woodrat/page-1 which is well worth a look. But the Mary Rose is well worth while in her own right - basically the ultimate development of the carrack - to the point that they were overtaken by events - the high castles were unnecessary once cannons replaced boarding as the main mode of combat, and with the addition of guns, particularly on upper decks, they became unwieldy, and the lower, more seaworthy galleons pretty much took their place.

All depends on finishing the house renovations. The Admiral has made it very clear that this comes first, and who am I to refuse? Currently we expect to finish some time after Christmas if all goes well. Then maybe I can get onto the Great Harry. It'll be nice - after all the ill-treatment the model has received in my travels over the last decades, I feel I owe it to the poor thing to put it back together properly and put it in a place of honour on the shelf. Then I can get onto starting the dromon!

Nice - looking forward to seeing progress on this one. If the original is in Port Phillip I'll have to go down and have a look at her sometime. Where is she berthed, Brian? As an Aussie I'm curious as to why someone in Scotland chose to make a model of an Australian tug. Is there a personal connection, or were you just interested in this particular vessel?

Looking forward to seeing this one. Mary Rose is a lovely ship, and those plans look really good.