Louie da fly
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That's a really good discovery, Dick. Adds that extra special something and, I think, adds to the meaning of the model to know who it belonged to. By the way, I notice there are two small copies of the coat of arms at the bottom of his portrait, as well. -
Thanks for the information, Glenn. Yes that seems pretty clear. I'll have another look at the paper later and see if I can locate those timbers.They really put a lot of thought into these vessels, didn't they? Give my thanks and regards to Cemal. The trouble is that at this stage of the build I'm pretty much committed to the design I have, so I'll be going with a straight keel (though with a very slight downward bow I haven't been able to get rid of). However, what I'm calling the stem and sternposts are curved upward, so maybe I'm closer to the actual design than I thought. Druxey, I'm quite surprised that just squeezing with the fingers is enough. Do you mean you hold it in your fingers till the glue is dry, or do you just push the pieces together and that's enough? I think I might have to hold mine together somehow, as I'm not all that confident in my scarph joints or the straightness of my pieces, especially the troublesome keel. I don't think they'll just lie there together on a flat surface without rolling a little out of position. I don't think it's enough to spoil the model, but after all that work and getting it almost straight I just don't know that trying it again and making another one would produce any better result. I spent the weekend on the plug and I'm pretty happy with it. I'll put photos up in the next day or two. Steven
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Lovely work, Danny. It's a pleasure to look at and follow. I'll be happy if I can do half as well when it comes to detail. Steven
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That would be great, Glenn. By the way, Cemal doesn't know me as Louie da Fly (of course). So tell him Steven Lowe says hullo and convey my thanks to him. And also my thanks to you. That model you made of YK4 was very inspirational and helped a lot in formulating my ideas of how a dromon would be. I consider it a privilege to be in touch with the man who built it. Steven
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That's very interesting, Glenn. Did you get this from the archaeological reports - I don't remember seeing this information in what I've read, but I might have missed it. I'd appreciate being pointed towards where this appears, as I'd like to get the ship as close as possible to what the archaeological evidence shows. Best, Steven PS: I see you live in College Station Texas - do you work at TAMU? If you know Cemal Pulak and you see him, say hullo to him for me and tell him the dromon build is at last under way. He's been very helpful - and generous - with information, and I'm very grateful for his assistance.
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I don't know, Dick. It'd probably be pretty hard to work it out anyway. The Yenikapi hulls were all incomplete and in pieces - if a keel was curved it might have been by design or because of the twisting and bending effects of being underground for so long. (Oh, and it's an earthquake zone.) I think it's amazing that they were in no worse condition than they were. But to answer your question, I haven't seen anything which mentions whether the keels were straight or curved. Best wishes, Steven
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Thanks, Druxey. I'm not terribly happy with the joints between the sternpost and the 'tail' - in fact I'm thinking of making them again - the current pieces were cut a little wrongly and so I can't make a joint that will enable them to follow the curve I want in the tail. And if I do that, perhaps I'll have another try at the keel as well - it still bows downward a little in the middle and it's not the same colour all the way along its length. Maybe I can recycle it to make the keelson. I know PVA glue works best when the joint is clamped together. Do you clamp your scarph joints? I was thinking of using an elastic band but I don't trust them much - they tend to mis-align things too easily. Or perhaps I could wrap the joint in thread while it dries? Any advice gratefully received. Best, Steven
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Well, here are the photos as of Sunday afternoon. I've roughly shaped one half of the plug - more still to be done; the hard bit, getting it the same shape as the cross-sections say it should be. I learnt something - don't use an electric planer to "just trim a bit off the stern" - it takes great bites out of the wood and I ended up losing a fair bit of the 'tail'. So I've added some builder's filler to make it up to shape again. And from now on I only use the sander. Next weekend I'll sand it properly to shape on one side and then begin on the other half if I have time. I still have to get the scarph joint between the sternpost and the 'tail' shaped properly - it's giving me some problems getting it all to mesh precisely and have the tail go up at the right angle. I think I'll have to make some kind of jig to hold it all while I'm gluing the keel, stempost, sternpost and tail pieces together. Does anyone have any advice for doing this successfully? I have to admit I'm not looking forward to it - too much chance of messing up after all that work. Maybe I should be gluing one joint at a time? I don't know. Steven
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That looks so good, Dick. She's really progressing well. Steven
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Thanks, Druxey. I've done a bit more but now the weekend is over, it's back to work for another week. I'll try to put up some update photos this evening, then it'll be a gap till next weekend. Carl, I don't think there was any Viking influence on Byzantine ship design -If anything it'd be the other way. But I really think it's just a case of convergent evolution. Steven
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This is a beautiful piece of work, Dan. I've only just come on board and I'm very impressed by the precision of the craftsmanship and the detail. And the cutaways are a lovely touch. Steven
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That's not surprising, Carl. Any ship that's to be rowed with speed as its objective is likely to have pretty much the same kind of shape - long and narrow. One thing I thought was interesting is the gentle curve of the outline (seen from above). Apparently Renaissance and Ancient galleys had pretty much straight, parallel sides. But the Byzantine galleys found at Yenikapi definitely swelled gently outwards from both ends toward the centre, rather like the Viking ships of the same period. Steven
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Just cut the lifts for the plug. As I really don't have much confidence that I'd be able to get both sides the same by eye, I've screwed together the lifts for one side and I'll smooth this side off, using the sections I've cut out of cardboard to check that I've got the shape right as I go. Once I'm happy with this side, I'll pull it apart again and use it as a template to modify the lifts of the other side. That way I've got the best chance of getting the shape of the hull symmetrical. Wish me luck!
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A beautiful build of a beautiful vessel. What more can I say? Steven
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Druxey, the frames for my dromon will be a bit over double the thickness in both dimensions compared with yours. Do you think your 'wet bending' technique would work for them as well, or should I use heat as well? Steven
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That makes a lot of sense, Dick. I think the "combat" idea is more wishful thinking than based on any sort of evidence. Steven
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Nice work, Dick (as usual). Landstro"m's book states that the grapnel was for grappling other ships in battle, but I don't know that this was based on anything other than supposition. However, the Anthony Roll depiction of the Great Harry at the very least, shows her with not only a grapnel on a chain hanging on the bowsprit, but also double-hooked yard arms. This was after all a time of transition from boarding and hand-to-hand fighting to longer distance combat with the big guns. So perhaps the grapnel is indeed for grappling other ships. Steven PS: Where did you get that lovely piece of chain?
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Such a beautiful vessel and so expertly put together. You're an inspiration to us all, Druxey. Steven
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Thanks, Druxey. As far as I can see the grain is pretty straight, and I tried to choose as straight a grain as I could find, but I agree it will go where it wants to go. I think I'll pin it to my plug the same way you did with yours - it looks like a very good way to go. Mark, it's European plane wood, the same as the keels of several of the Yenikapi galeai were made from. I wanted to keep it as close as possible to the original; the other Yenikapi galeai had oak keels and I could have used that instead, but I've never worked with plane and I wanted to see how it went. Fortunately, Ballarat has street trees of both kinds (as well as ash, elm and other European varieties introduced by the settlers in the 19th century) and I'm able to get a lot of timber from loppings. By the way, the jig seems to have worked pretty well. I may have to do a bit of final tweaking, but I'm pretty happy with the result. Next I'll tidy up my scarph joints between keel and the stem and sternposts, and cut out the pieces for the plug. I'm looking forward to it Steven
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A very ad hoc jig for straightening the keel in two dimensions at once. A nail at each end and one in the middle to bend the keel around in a horizontal direction, plus a sheet of glass to lift each end of the keel and a piece of wood to weigh it down in the middle. We'll see if it works . . . Steven
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I've been trying to get the keel straight - as it's only 3mm (1/8") square and 490mm (19.3") long there's ample opportunity for it to go all bendy. It's not too bad, but when I tried correcting the sideways bowing by pouring boiling water on it, raising the ends a bit and weighing down the centre, the sideways curve corrected but the keel hogged downwards instead! And when I corrected the hogging (see picture), the sideways curve re-appeared. So, I think I need to put together some sort of jig to simultaneously correct both faults. I've got some ideas and I'll see if they work. In the meantime, I've worked out the shapes I need for the layers of the plug and I'll be cutting these out and putting them together. Steven
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I'll give that some thought, Druxey. But as I see it, the extra work cutting the grooves might pay off in avoiding extra fiddling around trying to put the intermediate frames exactly in place. The barge is certainly very lightly built. (In comparison, the keels of the Yenikapi galeai are 6" square and the frames vary between 50 and 60mm square (2'-2.4"). But they have a fairly comprehensive system of wales and stringers to prevent hogging). I'm going to have to be careful to cut the planks exactly to prevent internal stresses as you mention above - this goes against my normal, rather slapdash approach to things (near enough is good enough). I think it's going to be quite an education in patience and precision for me. But as mtaylor says - the shipwright is slow but the wood is patient . . . Steven
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Thanks for the advice, Druxey. It's very much appreciated. I was thinking I'd have to do something like this, and I believe cutting grooves is the way I'll have to go - apart from any other considerations, the grooves should help hold the frames in place securely. But I've worked out that with a vessel about 60 cm ( 2 feet) long and frames about 5mm (1/5") apart, I'll need to cut something like 120 grooves. Dromai were incredibly lightly built - like a dinghy, but 90 feet long! Well, it should teach me patience. Your work is just phenomenal. If I can do half as well I'll be over the moon. Steven
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Thanks everybody for all the 'likes', and especially to Dick and Druxey for the kind advice on the best way to plank the ship and put in the frames. I'm still feeling my way with all this - and recessing the frames might be the way to go. Druxey, I take on board your comment about stabilizing the keel - it's been one of my major concerns. Dick, yes the Yenikapi galleys do have keelsons. It's going to be important because of the unusual method of framing in Byzantine ships - alternating frames starting from the keel with frames that crossed it. They're very close together because they're so light, so I'll have my work cut out for me. It's going to be like building a 30 metre longboat. I'm trying to approximate as closely as possible the timbers used on the original Yenikapi galleys, to get a (very) rough idea of how much one of these things would have weighed. The keels and frames seem mostly to be made of oak or of European plane and the planking is of black pine. There's ample oak and plane trees here in Ballarat and I follow the council workers around when they lop the street trees. So the keel, stempost and sternpost are of plane which I picked up off the side of the road, and I'll make the frames of it too. I can't get black pine, so I'll probably fudge it with radiata - cheap and easily available here. Steven
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