Louie da fly

I'll be watching this with interest. Building the Olympias and rowing her revealed some faults in the concept - for example, oars from different banks interfering with each other to the degree that there were quite a few broken oars in the first trials. But that's why people do reconstructions - to find out what works and what doesn't, in hopes of getting a more accurate idea of what was used. They couldn't get her to go as fast as the original triremes were reported as going, either. If I remember rightly, it was to do with the oarsmen not having room to fully stretch out and get a full oar stroke. I take it you've read "Age of the Galley"? As far as I'm aware, this is still pretty much the definitive work on the subject, though a lot of it has necessarily to be educated guesswork, and as it was published in 1994, the world has moved on as more discoveries have been made. I look forward to seeing your progress. They are such graceful vessels, aren't they?

These are really beautiful.

A very worthwhle project, Cristiano! I wish you every success with it.

Just found another couple of carrack pictures that may add to the sum of available info on carracks - attached. The first picture is "The caulking of a Venetian round ship" from Peregrinatio in Terram Sanctam (travels in the Holy Land) - a 15th century coloured woodcut by Bernhard Breidenbach (Erich Lessing/ Art Resource NY) - there's a better copy of it at http://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content/9780262123082_sch_0001.pdf . I don't know the source of the other picture - I found it on an Italian website relating to Venice's history. I hope these are helpful and of use. Steven BTW I hadn't realised that nave tonda is just another way of saying nave rotonda - "round ship"!

The "Chinese" style of the lion could well be right. I don't know if it had started by the early decades of the 17th century, but certainly by the end a lot of ships' decoration was in this style, as the exotic nature of Chinese art became very popular and lasted for quite a while (have a look inside the Royal pavilion in Brighton of 1805 to see some classic examples of "chinoiserie").

I think the colour is very good - it points up many detals that would otherwise be missed in a darker vessel, and the contrast is in keeping with the original Trombetta picture - and I find it interesting that the deck beams and the wales aren't in line with each other near the bow, just as in the Trombetta picture. Keep up the good work. It's a pleasure to watch the progress of this model.

It's really looking good. You did the right thing covering up the plywood - I was thinking it was a glaring fault in an otherwise faultless model and wondering how it could be remedied. You've done a wonderful job. By the way, as far as colour goes, archaeologists have found paint on some parts of Viking ships. I recall somewhere seeing that "orpiment" - a yellow paint made from arsenic sulphide - was found on the steering oar of the Gokstad ship, and the Gokstad ship's shields were painted alternately yellow and black. It's possible the scrollwork on the Oseberg ship may have been painted. As well as black and yellow they had red ochre and a sort of greyish blue from wood-ash - see here for more info on colours (and other stuff) of Viking shields.

That's beautiful detailed work. Along with many others, I'm sure, I'm awed by the quality of the work. I don't know whether I'll ever be able to achieve the level of quality and craftsmanship demonstrated here. Steven BTW, I tried the link above again and it worked for me. Maybe there's a problem with your server?

You can buy the DVD of "shipwreck Coast" at http://www.prospero.com.au/productions/91 It's $29.95 Australian plus postage. There is a "Part 2" but it's about a modern treasure hunter involved with the Batavia, nor about the shipwreck itself. Steven

By the way, an Australian TV movie was made of the Batavia wreck and massacre. Actually there were two - one that was pretty ho-hum and another, with most of the minor (and some major) parts portrayed by a bunch of friends of mine from the Grey Company re-enactment society in Perth, was much better, and filmed actually on the West Wallabi islands where Batavia came to grief. Very well done, though they had to use the Endeavour replica to stand in for Batavia, and the heroine's hair was cut modernly short. I've got it on VHS somewhere, I think. There's a brief clip from it

I thought I'd mention that the replica of the Duyfken, the first European ship to land in Australia, was built in Fremantle, in sight of the Shipwreck Museum that contains the remains of the Batavia. If you visit Western Australia you might be able to get a trip on her. See her website here. I was priveleged to go on board while she was under construction. She was made of European (Scandinavian?) oak, imported specially for the job. She's tiny! No bigger than a modern fishing boat. Instead of being launched from a slipway she was lowered into the water on a cradle like a yacht. A bit of a disappointment, I thought. Steven PS - I've added a couple of photos of Duyfken under construction, for those who are interested.

Just found a better definition pic from Barbari's scene of Venice 1500 which might be of use to you. It's at http://www.veniceboats.com/jar/navi-grosse-2-navi-tonde-e-2-galee-da-jacopo-de-barbari.html - it gives a very nice idea of how enormous the main yard is. Steven

Nice work. Watching progress with great interest. BTW, can you tell me the source of the carrack picture you're basing the rigging on? It's excellent! Steven

Looking very good. Steven

That's a very nice build. Regarding the colour, I googled the Oseberg ship to find out what timber she was made of, and of course it turned out to be oak. So when she was new she would have been nice and golden-brown. But if you like it darker, as it is in the museum - hey, it's your model and you should choose what you want. By the way, there were a lot of grave goods found in the ship, including a 4-wheeled ceremonial cart, 3 beds, a bucket, textiles, and a wooden chest, as well as the bodies of two women - thought to be Queen Asa and a handmaiden. See here for some images.

Dick, your noting of the asymmetrical frame over the forecastle and the idea of scuppers within the protruding deck beams are very interesting. Full marks for observation! By the way, I've just found some high res pics of Tavola Strozzi's 1465 painting of the return of the Aragonese fleet to Naples after the Battle of Ischia, with some nice pics of carracks. They're at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tavola_strozzi_(flotta_aragonese_al_ritorno_della_battaglia_di_ischia_il_12_luglio_1465),_1465-1500_ca.,_11982,_02.JPG and http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tavola_strozzi_(flotta_aragonese_al_ritorno_della_battaglia_di_ischia_il_12_luglio_1465),_1465-1500_ca.,_11982,_08_pontile.JPG. Click on each pic to zoom in. And better res pics of Carpaccio's Legend of St Ursula at http://www.lessingimages.com/search.asp?a=L&lc=202020204423&ln=Galleria+dell'Accademia%2C+Venice%2C+Italy&p=1 These are somewhat obscured by the watermark but if you click on each picture, and then click again, you can get a zoom with very good detail - better than I've managed to find before. Hope these are helpful. Steven

Very nice. I grew up in Western Australia, with stories of the Batavia massacre. The remnant of the ship's stern has been rebuilt and is on display in the Fremantle Shipwreck Museum, along with cannons and a considerable number of artefacts from the wreck. There is a copy of the stone gateway for the Batavia fort that was shipped as ballast on the Batavia - the original is in Geraldton, the nearest town to the actual site of the shipwreck. There is at least one West Australian who's on this forum (I'm over the other side of Australia, 4000 km away).

Very nice. Good to see her taking shape. Dan, from Vivien's log I see you're planning to make that carrack as a waterline model. That's the ship from the Beauchmp Pageant mentioned above, and the sail bears the arms of Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick. Are plans available for her, or have you drawn them up yourself? Steven

Dick, that's coming along nicely. I look forward to seeing photos of it "in the flesh" (or in this case, timber). Steven

Very nice (BTW - the last letter of "pdf" in the address bar is missing in that link, but soon remedied). But I'd far rather they'd done a reconstruction of YK16 than YK12. Still, who'd they get to row it? (Me, for a start!) Steven

Also two huge invasions by Vikings from their settlements in Russia. Nasty stuff, Greek fire. Dick, I should have known you'd already know about Michael of Rhodes . Steven

Thanks for all the info on dromons. And Dick, sorry for derailing this thread - getting back to the subject, I just remembered a link I have to a site on the early 15th century ship designer Michael of Rhodes, containing a facsimile of his manuscript, complete with theoretical diagrams and a number of pics, including one of a carrack. You can find it here. Steven

Oh, and of course the Henry Grace a Dieu itself was really just a carrack with delusions of grandeur. Yes, considering nobody really knows exactly what they looked like, contemporary pictures are sketchy and stylised, and the author of the best surviving contemporary description was no seaman, and was more concerned with showing off his classical Greek scholarship than in describing the ships in use at the time. Much of his description relates to ancient Greek galleys from 1200 years earlier! Fortunately in 2004 during railway excavations in the suburb of Yenikapi in Istanbul, where Constantinople's Harbour of Theodosius had once been, the remains of 37 shipwrecks from the 5th to 11th centuries AD were discovered. A few of these were military galleys - the largest being a galea, the next step down from a dromon. Unfortunately, only the hull below the waterline was preserved. So how a dromon actually looked and worked is still largely a mystery.(sigh) I've been collecting information for some time, as many contemporary pictures as I can, papers on modern theoretical reconstructions etc so I can work up my own reconstruction when the time comes. It's all part of the fun. I'm sure you'll get around to finishing it off eventually. One for the back burner. And I only just realised Le Gros Ventre is one of yours, too. I've been following that one with great interest. Great stuff. Look forward to seeing your progress.

Lots of things. I'm just getting bck into ship modelling after several decades. I have a POB model of Henry VIII's Henry Grace a Dieu which I made in the 1960's when I was in my teens, based on the reconstruction in Bjorn Landstrom's book The Ship. I pulled the stern off when I realised it was wrong, and never got back to it. So fixing it up will be my first project, and then I have quite a number of possibles lined up - perhaps a carrack or a cog or a Byzantine dromon, I'm just not sure. But first the admiral and I have to finish renovating the house - so everything's on hold till then (sigh). Steven

Thanks. That's very useful. I'll have to add them to my "must buy" list. Steven