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Louie da fly
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Clark Griswold in Coca by Clark Griswold - Amati - 1:60 - first wooden ship model
Looking good. Regarding the problem with the over-short plank at the bow, you might consider removing it and making a new one. If you're using PVA (white) glue, rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol) will dissolve it. And it's probably better to do it early rather than later, when it might get in the way of other things.
Those pegs for the rails look good, but they can break if you accidentally brush against the railing (don't ask me how I know). Metal pins might be better, but if the wooden ones are thick enough you might be ok.
Steven
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Balclutha75 in Viking Drakkar by Balclutha75 - Amati - 1:50 - First Ever Wooden Model
Though the Gokstad ship's shields didn't have them, there's a fair bit of evidence that shields of the period also had the face covered with leather, which added strength and rigidity. Then the leather rim was sewn on through holes in the circumference of the shield-board. But I just can't see it being likely they would have put them in place if they were going to encounter any kind of weather (or waves, for that matter).
Steven
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Louie da fly reacted to Emmet in Santa Maria by Emmet - Amati - 1:65-Columbus Caravelle 1492 -Third Wooden Ship Build
I was just thinking Lapinas asked about curving the wood. I think did do some soaking of the 1st hull pieces but I do not remember the curves being that great. At any rate I thought I would show a serious curve of the caps going from one deck to the next.
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Louie da fly reacted to EricWilliamMarshall in Oseberg Viking Ship by liteflight - Billing Boats - 1/25 Scale - 9th Century
I just crossed the hump on my first tiny planked hull in the last few weeks. It is doable. I have direct messaged you a few ideas (so as not to hijack @liteflight 's log). The one that was most useful for me, was bending a number of flat wooden coffee stirrers using a number of the techniques found here at MSW to get my 'sea legs'.
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Louie da fly reacted to Clark Griswold in Coca by Clark Griswold - Amati - 1:60 - first wooden ship model
My wife bought me a draw plate (MicroMark since the Byrnes one wasn't available when she was looking to buy it) for the holidays and I found reason to use it today. I could have just used toothpicks but I set out to pick up new skills and techniques with this build, so why not? It worked out fairly well; I will do the same for the rest of the rail posts.
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Louie da fly reacted to Clark Griswold in Coca by Clark Griswold - Amati - 1:60 - first wooden ship model
Finished up the bow until later in the build when the details are fitted. In the process I realized I trimmed one of the clinker slats shy of the keel so I had to mend an extension on. It isn't the cleanest so I may sand it down and apply a thinned down piece as a veneer when I need a distraction while final planking.
First planking is complete and now I'm working to fair out the lands and valleys. In hindsight, I would have thinned it down ever so slightly to permit more of a skim coat and added some pigment to make it easier to see. Once the sanding dust starts flying, it requires frequent wipes to see progress since the filler material kicks up a much finer texture and matches the basswood. It's pretty sloppy here, but it did clean up well (I thought I took a pic of it with the keel seat cut & cleared). There was one spot that I ended up having to add some basswood scraps to level out but everything else is pretty close. After a few more rounds of sanding I should have it so nearly all of the filler is removed, particularly in the tighter radiuses at the bow and stern.
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Louie da fly got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in Medieval longship by bolin - FINISHED - 1:30 - based on reconstruction Helga Holm
Interesting. The frames in mediaeval (and earlier) Mediterranean ships in general followed a
. . pattern of alternating floor timbers and paired half-frames . . . Floor timbers span the bottom of the ship, with their extremities extending just to the turn of the bilge [on each side of the ship]; in contrast, half-frames span the width of the keel and extend up one side of the ship, through the turn of the bilge to, or just beyond, the first wale . . . At each frame station, floor timbers and half-frames are paired with futtocks placed adjacent to, but not fastened to, the floor timber or half-frame, with ends overlapping by the width of one or more planks.
This combined ease of manufacture and construction with the requisite strength.
Steven
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Medieval longship by bolin - FINISHED - 1:30 - based on reconstruction Helga Holm
That's a major milestone, taking her off the mould (British and Australian spelling - Americans spell it mold).
She looks very good - very graceful hull shape.
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Medieval longship by bolin - FINISHED - 1:30 - based on reconstruction Helga Holm
It's very interesting following this build and seeing your ingenious solutions to problems.
Walnut has a reputation of being easily broken and unwilling to bend without splintering. However, I'm using it on my Great Harry without much trouble, though my planks are pretty thin because the model is at 1:200 scale. What is the thickness of the planks on the Helga Holm?
Your rivets look very good. Yes, paper or card would probably be good for the other side.
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Medieval longship by bolin - FINISHED - 1:30 - based on reconstruction Helga Holm
Good point. Plenty of 15th and 16th century pictures show ships with bonnets but no reef points. At least as many show neither - though in many cases I'm prepared to believe that's artist's error. I know of only a single one (a "great carrack" that doesn't have a date but looks to be early 16th century) that has reef points. Perhaps we're looking at lost technology, which was "rediscovered" later?
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Medieval longship by bolin - FINISHED - 1:30 - based on reconstruction Helga Holm
Agreed. But they had to be invented at some time - Most contemporary pictorial representations of ships before the 14th century don't show them. Is this because they didn't exist, or did the artist just leave them out?
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Medieval longship by bolin - FINISHED - 1:30 - based on reconstruction Helga Holm
Very interesting video. It looks like a lot of fun.
I wasn't sure about the reef points - how far back reef points go - I thought they didn't come in until later but on investigation I found this picture which is supposed to be late 13th century but judging by the armour (something I do know about) it dates to about the middle of the 14th - and it does have reef points.
But in fact the longship from Skamstrup in my post above also has them, so you the problem I was concerned about didn't really exist. (Nonetheless, I think it was worth going to the trouble of checking.)
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Medieval longship by bolin - FINISHED - 1:30 - based on reconstruction Helga Holm
It certainly looks like one. If so, it's the earliest representation I know of. The oldest I've previously come across were early 15th century.
This is a really interesting build, of a unique vessel. Keep up the good work.
By the way, I think you're right in using the reconstruction as a guide but making your own judgments about the original form of the ship for your model.
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Medieval longship by bolin - FINISHED - 1:30 - based on reconstruction Helga Holm
Yes, I would have thought that from looking at the cross-sections. It has a very low freeboard - looks like it would get swamped easily.
By the way, here is a picture of a longship with a stern rudder, from about 1300 AD.
It's from Skamstrup Church, near Kalundborg, Denmark. Note that the tiller is curved, to go around the sternpost.
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Oseberg Ship by KrisWood - 1:25 - Vibeke Bischoff Plans
Sounds good. Apart from anything else, you'll be the only one who knows (apart from all of us, of course) that you've deviated from an exact copy of the original.
In my view, they probably didn't get too fussed with exact placement (unless there really is some reason for the frames to be off-square) - all they wanted was something to keep the sides from being squoze inwards by the pressure of the seawater. I doubt that a Viking would get upset with you for doing it this way. On the other hand . . .
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Oseberg Ship by KrisWood - 1:25 - Vibeke Bischoff Plans
You could still use the three part system for the jig but bolt it together, so it can be unbolted and removed later. So long as the joins were solid enough that should work ok.
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Oseberg Ship by KrisWood - 1:25 - Vibeke Bischoff Plans
Thought you might find this interesting:
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Louie da fly got a reaction from J11 in San Giovanni Battista 1598 by luponero - Medicean galleon
That whipstaff assembly for the rudder/tiller looks really good. And the planking on the deck, as well.
Do you use an automatic translator? Sometimes your posts say "deck" and sometimes "bridge". I suspect they are the same word in Italian. But only "deck" is correct here, because the bridge is a completely different part of a ship; it's the structure at the top of a modern vessel where the captain works.
I am very impressed by your lighting - electronics are a mystery to me, but I can appreciate the excellence of the work of others.
Steven
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Louie da fly got a reaction from End Of The Line in Henry Grace a Dieu (Great Harry) by Louie da fly - FINISHED - Scale 1:200 - Repaired after over 50 yrs of neglect
Here are a couple more photos -
Waterways added to the aftercastle deck (absolutely vital - to cover up gaps at the edge of the decking which you can see through down to the gunports below).
masts and bowsprit dry fitted. Still sanding the underwater planking.
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Louie da fly got a reaction from mtaylor in Henry Grace a Dieu (Great Harry) by Louie da fly - FINISHED - Scale 1:200 - Repaired after over 50 yrs of neglect
Ah, but he's a king. How do you know he's a king? Because he hasn't got sh*t all over him (Monty Python and the holy Grail).
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Oseberg Ship by KrisWood - 1:25 - Vibeke Bischoff Plans
That's very interesting, Kris. I hadn't known about it before. Also the frames all lean over slightly in the vertical plane, towards the ends.
It certainly looks as if they did that on purpose, and they must have had their reasons, perhaps to oppose the forces of waves crashing against the hull from bow and stern.
I can't really see that the diagonals you mention would have affected the structural strength particularly, but the vertical lean might have. Keep in mind that these ships were built "shell-first" with the shape of the hull determined by the planks and the frames added afterwards, so they might not have worried all that much that the frames weren't quite evenly spaced, or exactly square.
But in building the model I really can't see that any slight structural advantage that might be conveyed by the diagonal and leaning frames would make any perceptible difference to the strength of the model - your clinker built vessel will be more than strong enough, if my own dromon (even more delicately built - and of carvel construction) is anything to go by.
So, it then comes down to whether you want to copy the frames exactly for historical accuracy's sake, or just build it in a way that will be easier on you. I doubt very much that the strength will be affected at all. And I doubt that anybody but you will ever notice the difference.
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Larry Cowden in Oseberg Ship by KrisWood - 1:25 - Vibeke Bischoff Plans
Welcome to the club!
Your strategy for the keel sounds like the right thing to be doing. Building up out of bits that are nice and straight and square is (almost) always prefreable to carving to shape (don't ask me how I know)
Way back when I was making armour, my signature on the armour forum was "It's not really armour unless you've bled on it". I fancy the same applies to ship modelling. Certainly several bits of my own model have little bloodstains on them.
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Louie da fly got a reaction from Cirdan in Henry Grace a Dieu (Great Harry) by Louie da fly - FINISHED - Scale 1:200 - Repaired after over 50 yrs of neglect
Here are a couple more photos -
Waterways added to the aftercastle deck (absolutely vital - to cover up gaps at the edge of the decking which you can see through down to the gunports below).
masts and bowsprit dry fitted. Still sanding the underwater planking.
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Louie da fly reacted to liteflight in Oseberg Viking Ship by liteflight - Billing Boats - 1/25 Scale - 9th Century
And no!
I stand on the shoulders of giants to better see over their shoulders and learn from them
To tell a secret, when I am trimming a weird plane and I have no idea where the centre of gravity (CG) should be - I don’t fit the G/G for the first flight until I see how it behaves.
(and I love C/G in German which is, I believe Schwerpunkt )
This is what I was flying and trimming on Wednesday- a lifting body tailless.
Two sizes, this one weighs about 25 gm, just under an ounce
And it’s little brother is 66% of the size and flies at 11gm
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Louie da fly reacted to EricWilliamMarshall in Oseberg Viking Ship by liteflight - Billing Boats - 1/25 Scale - 9th Century
Not as much as you might think!
A couple of points:
The reason dendrochronology works is due to the variations in tree growth. There is great differences in growth and shape within the same species. The species can be identified but most of the species in question would cover a wide area and some species can't be easily differated. Red Oak can't be distinguished between the New World and the Old World origins, for example. Oxidation plays a great role in color as does finish and weathering.
I also assume the average ship builder would be less picky about species than functional use and proximity to the build.
All that aside, as a model builder, oak isn't a friend. The gain is pronounced, the pores are huge and has rays. Also the colors of oak are so many, depending on finish, use, compression, weathering, etc.
Long story short, as long as you can match the look and feel you want, most of the usual woods will work. I suggest trying different stains or similar on scrap wood to find your approach.
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