CharlieZardoz

battle ship mecidiye 1900(prut)
Cramp and Sons Shipbuilding Company 

Then you have option II which is the ship having a design more akin to a Baltimore Clipper (ship image is the Pride of Baltimore II). This is featured in the Lively model by Lumbreyard, the Krick and Mamoli kits as well with the stanchion posts not on the waterway but bulwark railing itself. Generally speaking I like this look a lot better and is how I am making my model look however I wouldn't mind some thoughts and how such a ship could have been set up why some models may have chosen one approach over the other there is still time before I am fully committed.

The hull itself needed much more refining and was sanded up some more and now it fits perfectly in all the acrylic templates.  These are laser cut templates so they don't have margin for error like the cardboard ones. This included sanding the keelson. The wood with lines is a 4mm piece that came with the kit and represents the thickness of the finished keel, the two lines represent the thickness of the veneer planks so when the ship is planked it will flow smoothly towards the keel with no bulge.  

Hi! Regarding bulwark colors the answer is it varied. The british preferred red and syren likely has red in alot of models due to her being a captured ship. The states used green but I imagine also red and in time white. Basically whatever was cheap and available. For more info on colors id recommend a copy of nrg's ship model shop notes II.

My advice scratch model of her would probably turn better than a kit, nudge!

I am not famiar with the Mamoli kit but have seen the version from Blue Jacket by the modeler Al Ross.  I was going to say plank the stern like most vessels of the time but I think these two photos will help you.  I hope they are not removed.


David B
 
 

Thanks for the comments, the "likes" and just looking in...  
 
At last, a real update as life (the Admiral's health) got in the way.  The frame extensions have been removed and she's starting to look more like a frigate.   I still need to sand them down to the sheer strake but I'll be doing that when I need a break from the gundeck work.
 
Here's the pictures...  as always, a click on them will open them to full size (or what constitutes full size on MSW).  The last two are more of a reference shot for examining things on my part but I thought I'd toss them in anyway.  Sorry about the sawdust and mess.....
 

Thanks for the comments and the "likes".
 
Life and other things continues to take my shipyard time.....   
So.. some replies first, update next.
 
Eric,
I was tech writer for 25 years in a previous life (the one before I went into IT work)...  I still get caught on such stuff.
 
 
I did some manuals in my previous life for equipment used by the Brits.  I had to learn a whole new language for them.  I believe (and am probably wrong) that it was Winston Churchill who said "We're two countries, separated by a common language".  
 
 
After sorting out how the deck was planked by referencing other French frigates as much as I could, used the cross-section drawing as my baseline.  Licorne is definitely an oddball in this regard.  The references show the traditional planking that follows the waterway and tapers.  Some use nibbing at the bow, some use hook scarfs.  Others... nada.  Towards the stern... there's where I ran into headaches.  Some use drop planks, some don't.  Some have parquet floors in the great cabin.  Some don't.  
 
So.. decision time. I went with the spirit of the beast. No drop planks, no scarfs or nibbing at the bow,  There's two wide planks thicker than the rest at the waterway.. much like binding strakes.  Then theres 3 stakes of "normal planks", a very wide binding strake, and 5 "normal planks.  None of the works showed hook scarfs in the binding strakes like the English used.. So.. I'm going with what I have.
 
I began by doing a reference drawing (actually reworking what I had done already) with actual dimensions to account for errors in building with respect to width of the area to be planked and beam placement.  I then added tic marks along the centerline of each beam for the plankwidth starting at the 0 station line (dead flat, widest point) and scaled them to both the stern and the bow.  Next came drawing in the planks.   The cutting part was the easy part and am now installing the aft planking first.
 
The first picture shows the result of this work in the great cabin aft of the mizzen mast.  The drawings and cuttings were tweaked to account for the kerf of the laser.  Also, the planking that showing is actually the bottom side of the sheet.  Given the way the kerf is, this provided a natural beveling.  I lightly sanded the char but didn't remove all of it as a) there's little glue used on the edge of the plank and   it gives a nice (to my eye) simulation of caulking. There's also another plank laying on the beams ready for installation.
 

 
The second photo merely shows the planks cut and still held in place in the sheet stock.  These planks are from where the existing planking is to the waterway.  I left a bit of extra meat on the outside plank goes by the waterway for fitting.
 

 
I'm having a lot of fun with this once I figure out what needs to be done.  The "how" is just as important as the "what" in this case.  Frustrating at times, but very satisfying when it comes together.
 
As always, feel free to point out errors, misadventures, etc.  This is pretty much virgin territory for me...

Interesting thoughts Joel. I mean if you look at that Chapelle image above there is a small bulwark there the only real difference is the lack of a cap rail and stanchion ribs (which I imagine was there to hold it up). From a pure model building perspective the later sounds more fun though I want to plan ahead if I go the other way id need to remove those "teeth" for the stanchion railings in my laser template. Maybe ill make a version for both... I am curious if a resource exists where I can explore this further. Will check my shop notes

Then you have option II which is the ship having a design more akin to a Baltimore Clipper (ship image is the Pride of Baltimore II). This is featured in the Lively model by Lumbreyard, the Krick and Mamoli kits as well with the stanchion posts not on the waterway but bulwark railing itself. Generally speaking I like this look a lot better and is how I am making my model look however I wouldn't mind some thoughts and how such a ship could have been set up why some models may have chosen one approach over the other there is still time before I am fully committed.

So here is my thoughts on the bulwark. Chapelle's "reconstruction" essentially sees the ship's upper works the same as a yacht or other small vessel. I've been looking at images of various boats out there and you can see a similarity just a small lip for a railing and the rails themselves lined up on the waterway. AL's Dallas and the Bluejacket kit follow this line but there is another way I've seen.

And remember always with laser templates A. overlap when you have joints and also add a pixel of extra length so that way the laser can burn off that extra amount and you will get the size you need!

So here is what I've been up to in the last week. Basically getting the templates for the waterways and margin planks ready for the laser. The margin planks will be made from holly veneer and the waterways will be Cherry (like 1 mm or something a bit thicker) and painted white with the stanchion bits added to made a tiny bulwark. Here you can see a paper printed example of what it will look like on the model. You can also see I did a pattern for the treenails where each plank ends/begins. I think it looks ok the planks represent about 15' in length and I tried to follow the 1,3,5,2,4 pattern but there weren't many needed on this small ship.

Hi guys! Sorry was a very busy week. I'm in the middle of building up my own appraisal company so that consists of connecting with new clients, opening sole proprietorship accounts and smoozing.
 
So regarding the revenue cutter carronade, my reasoning for picking the screw over the "quoin" is simply due to availability of carronade kits with screws over the other and since this is a sliding carriage design from 1820 I think it should work. The only model of Doughty's revenue cutters which features a screw style carronade is the Corel Ranger so I'm looking at this photo of what Corel's plan shows for the carronade design (thank you Cathead), this is how I plan on building it.  Regarding the carronade itself I'm going to modify the kits and bash the parts to get something like what the image shows.
 
Now onto my next bunch of querries...

Eric I think you did a really great job with that kit, made it the best it can be. The problems are with the kit itself it's lacking in detailing and yeah all that is fixable but if you look at the Corel, Mamoli and then Krick cutters they all increase in detailing but essentially are the same idea. So I'm trying to pick and choose from all these kits what detailing's I like and/or feel was appropriate. For example when I finally get to the 79 ton ship I wouldn't give it a mere carronade like AL did with Dallas but a full size cannon possibly with several 3-4 pounders. What I suspect with these ships is that the upper works would be modified as needed based on duty and wishes of the commanders. If you look at this custom model from shipmodel.com (Richard Glanville's model) you can imagine this was probably how they varied with larger bulwarks and gun ports.

I think that's the idea more of less yes. This bulwark was probably no more than a foot high it definitely served no defensive purpose and likely only a few inches thick. But similar to what pilot schooners had back in the day I dont like the way Als Dallas does it (too short in my opinion) but its fun working this stuff out

Interesting thoughts Joel. I mean if you look at that Chapelle image above there is a small bulwark there the only real difference is the lack of a cap rail and stanchion ribs (which I imagine was there to hold it up). From a pure model building perspective the later sounds more fun though I want to plan ahead if I go the other way id need to remove those "teeth" for the stanchion railings in my laser template. Maybe ill make a version for both... I am curious if a resource exists where I can explore this further. Will check my shop notes

Then you have option II which is the ship having a design more akin to a Baltimore Clipper (ship image is the Pride of Baltimore II). This is featured in the Lively model by Lumbreyard, the Krick and Mamoli kits as well with the stanchion posts not on the waterway but bulwark railing itself. Generally speaking I like this look a lot better and is how I am making my model look however I wouldn't mind some thoughts and how such a ship could have been set up why some models may have chosen one approach over the other there is still time before I am fully committed.

So here is my thoughts on the bulwark. Chapelle's "reconstruction" essentially sees the ship's upper works the same as a yacht or other small vessel. I've been looking at images of various boats out there and you can see a similarity just a small lip for a railing and the rails themselves lined up on the waterway. AL's Dallas and the Bluejacket kit follow this line but there is another way I've seen.

And remember always with laser templates A. overlap when you have joints and also add a pixel of extra length so that way the laser can burn off that extra amount and you will get the size you need!

So here is what I've been up to in the last week. Basically getting the templates for the waterways and margin planks ready for the laser. The margin planks will be made from holly veneer and the waterways will be Cherry (like 1 mm or something a bit thicker) and painted white with the stanchion bits added to made a tiny bulwark. Here you can see a paper printed example of what it will look like on the model. You can also see I did a pattern for the treenails where each plank ends/begins. I think it looks ok the planks represent about 15' in length and I tried to follow the 1,3,5,2,4 pattern but there weren't many needed on this small ship.

Hi guys! Sorry was a very busy week. I'm in the middle of building up my own appraisal company so that consists of connecting with new clients, opening sole proprietorship accounts and smoozing.
 
So regarding the revenue cutter carronade, my reasoning for picking the screw over the "quoin" is simply due to availability of carronade kits with screws over the other and since this is a sliding carriage design from 1820 I think it should work. The only model of Doughty's revenue cutters which features a screw style carronade is the Corel Ranger so I'm looking at this photo of what Corel's plan shows for the carronade design (thank you Cathead), this is how I plan on building it.  Regarding the carronade itself I'm going to modify the kits and bash the parts to get something like what the image shows.
 
Now onto my next bunch of querries...

One thing I didn't consider/notice until it was too late on my Corel Ranger, was that the kit doesn't allow for any drainage from the deck through the bulwarks (can't think of the right term). As built, it would swamp in no time. But it went over my head, and now I can't easily fix it. Oh well. Since you're not that far yet, sure seems worth considering how to add proper drainage.
 
On the carronades, one thing I'd suggest it thinking through how long you want the elevation screw to be. The one Corel provides (shown in the plans) doesn't seem long enough to allow the full range of elevation/depression that you'd want. They also designed the carriage poorly, so that the screw can't be vertical while fitting into its socket on the slide and through the carronade itself. Sloppy.

I think that's the idea more of less yes. This bulwark was probably no more than a foot high it definitely served no defensive purpose and likely only a few inches thick. But similar to what pilot schooners had back in the day I dont like the way Als Dallas does it (too short in my opinion) but its fun working this stuff out

Then you have option II which is the ship having a design more akin to a Baltimore Clipper (ship image is the Pride of Baltimore II). This is featured in the Lively model by Lumbreyard, the Krick and Mamoli kits as well with the stanchion posts not on the waterway but bulwark railing itself. Generally speaking I like this look a lot better and is how I am making my model look however I wouldn't mind some thoughts and how such a ship could have been set up why some models may have chosen one approach over the other there is still time before I am fully committed.