Roger Pellett

My model is based on the Admiralty drawing of a 32ft longboat reproduced on page 90 of The Boats of Men of War by W.E. May. In addition to a body plan, this drawing includes a sail plan, spar plan, and a number of rigging details. Unfortunately, it does not show the sheets for either of the headsails. The boat is what we would now call cutter rigged. It has a foresail hanked to the fore stay and a jib set flying from an unstayed bowsprit. The entire bowsprit appears rather flimsy and my interpretation is that the jib was principally intended for sailing off the wind and upwind in light air.
 
Your picture would indicate that you are a sailor so you know that for upwind sailing the foresail on this boat would be a workhorse and its sheet would be under considerable tension. While the jib sheet could be simply led through a block hooked to a convenient spot, the fore sail would require something more substantial.
 
If you go to the National Maritime Museum website Collections.rmg.co.uk and find the online listing for drawings and search for "longboat" item 17 is a drawing titled 31ft Longboat Circa 1801. Although this is not the same boat that I am modeling, it is roughly the same size and is fitted with a fore sheet horse.
 
I am aware that not all longboats were built to be carried aboard warships. Some were yard craft and a number of these are also shown on this same plan listing, so it may be that this particular longboat was intended as a yard craft. As a minimum in heavy air this foresail would at least need a pair of tackles each secured to an eyebolt but barring some new undiscovered information we can only speculate.
 
Thanks for your comment.
 
Roger

My model is based on the Admiralty drawing of a 32ft longboat reproduced on page 90 of The Boats of Men of War by W.E. May. In addition to a body plan, this drawing includes a sail plan, spar plan, and a number of rigging details. Unfortunately, it does not show the sheets for either of the headsails. The boat is what we would now call cutter rigged. It has a foresail hanked to the fore stay and a jib set flying from an unstayed bowsprit. The entire bowsprit appears rather flimsy and my interpretation is that the jib was principally intended for sailing off the wind and upwind in light air.
 
Your picture would indicate that you are a sailor so you know that for upwind sailing the foresail on this boat would be a workhorse and its sheet would be under considerable tension. While the jib sheet could be simply led through a block hooked to a convenient spot, the fore sail would require something more substantial.
 
If you go to the National Maritime Museum website Collections.rmg.co.uk and find the online listing for drawings and search for "longboat" item 17 is a drawing titled 31ft Longboat Circa 1801. Although this is not the same boat that I am modeling, it is roughly the same size and is fitted with a fore sheet horse.
 
I am aware that not all longboats were built to be carried aboard warships. Some were yard craft and a number of these are also shown on this same plan listing, so it may be that this particular longboat was intended as a yard craft. As a minimum in heavy air this foresail would at least need a pair of tackles each secured to an eyebolt but barring some new undiscovered information we can only speculate.
 
Thanks for your comment.
 
Roger

Can you tell us who is going to put blush the book?
 
Roger

Can you tell us who is going to put blush the book?
 
Roger

Tony,
 
I agree, the rigging of the main sheet for your cutter is exactly as described in Steel.
 
What I have been trying to figure out is the system used on a much smaller vessel, a 32 ft longboat.
 
Roger

Can you tell us who is going to put blush the book?
 
Roger

Tony,
 
I agree, the rigging of the main sheet for your cutter is exactly as described in Steel.
 
What I have been trying to figure out is the system used on a much smaller vessel, a 32 ft longboat.
 
Roger

To me, the question is what you are trying to achieve, appearance of an actual boat, a modeling convention, or artistic license.
 
I am building a 1:32 scale longboat of the same era. My idea is to show the boat moored with sales furled as shown in a 1717 view of the city of Nre York. This calls for realism. For a number of reasons I think that the bottoms of these were often treated with tar resulting in a very dark brown bottom not white. Top sides would be treated with resin resulting in a tan finish. Planking seams would be quite prominent beacaus they were payed with tar. The insides were often painted "sad" color, a mud color. Color would be used sparingly- an earth pigment color for the sheer strake. The transom could be painted with an earth pigment color or the sad color.
 
Roger

I just noticed this post. I have been pondering this subject while working on my Royal Navy longboat model as some Admiralty drawings show a horse for the foresail. My problem with knotting the tail of the sheet to itself would be trying to untie it under tension especially when wet- a necessary thing to be able to do with any sheet in a boat under sail. Steel mentions one other idea that I like better. The block on the horse is provided with an over length sheave pin on hat serves as a belaying pin for the tail of the sheet.
 
 
Roger Pellett

I just noticed this post. I have been pondering this subject while working on my Royal Navy longboat model as some Admiralty drawings show a horse for the foresail. My problem with knotting the tail of the sheet to itself would be trying to untie it under tension especially when wet- a necessary thing to be able to do with any sheet in a boat under sail. Steel mentions one other idea that I like better. The block on the horse is provided with an over length sheave pin on hat serves as a belaying pin for the tail of the sheet.
 
 
Roger Pellett

A number of years ago the late model builder William F. Wiseman built a model of the very small river boat Myrtle Corey. He built the model entirely from photographs using geometric projection techniques. The NRG has downloadable copies describing his techniques that can be bought for a few dollars. Look up his name on their website. Mystic Seaport bought his model collection from his estate and those of us that attended last fall's NRG conference got to see them. The photo's in the Journal do not do them justice. I remember seeing his spectacular Far West model but not Myrtle Corey.
 
Roger Pellett

Thank you for the correction :-)
 
XXXDan

With regard to dafi's post above two opposite forces act on a submerged object. Gravity equal to the open air weight of the object is pulling it down. Buoyancy equal to the weight of the the water displaced by the object is pushing up. The force on the anchor cable is therefore equal to the net of these two forces.
 
If water is one seventh as dense as wrought iron, then the force on the anchor cable after being broken out is 6/7 not 1/7 of the anchor's weight.
 
Roger Pellett

A number of years ago the late model builder William F. Wiseman built a model of the very small river boat Myrtle Corey. He built the model entirely from photographs using geometric projection techniques. The NRG has downloadable copies describing his techniques that can be bought for a few dollars. Look up his name on their website. Mystic Seaport bought his model collection from his estate and those of us that attended last fall's NRG conference got to see them. The photo's in the Journal do not do them justice. I remember seeing his spectacular Far West model but not Myrtle Corey.
 
Roger Pellett

A number of years ago the late model builder William F. Wiseman built a model of the very small river boat Myrtle Corey. He built the model entirely from photographs using geometric projection techniques. The NRG has downloadable copies describing his techniques that can be bought for a few dollars. Look up his name on their website. Mystic Seaport bought his model collection from his estate and those of us that attended last fall's NRG conference got to see them. The photo's in the Journal do not do them justice. I remember seeing his spectacular Far West model but not Myrtle Corey.
 
Roger Pellett

If you are buying power tools and are buying unseasoned lumber you might find a small jointer more useful. A surface planer does not easily handle twisted lumber. It works best if you can put a flat surface down against the platen and the cutter head then planes the other surface parallel. If you try to plane a board with two irregular surfaces the pressure from the cutter head twists the board.
 
By planing one side flat or better yet two sides flat and square with a jointer you can then square the board's remaining sides with a table saw or band saw. You can then rip uniform slices with a table or band saw. If you still want a planer, the jointer is needed to first flatten one surface.
 
I have a 3in Rockwell jointer that I bought many years ago. This is a heavy all cast iron tool that is large enough to handle ship modeling wood. I would rather use it than the cheaply made handy man quality tools sold by the big box retailers today. I suspect that you can find an inexpensive one used.
 
Roger Pellett

If you are buying power tools and are buying unseasoned lumber you might find a small jointer more useful. A surface planer does not easily handle twisted lumber. It works best if you can put a flat surface down against the platen and the cutter head then planes the other surface parallel. If you try to plane a board with two irregular surfaces the pressure from the cutter head twists the board.
 
By planing one side flat or better yet two sides flat and square with a jointer you can then square the board's remaining sides with a table saw or band saw. You can then rip uniform slices with a table or band saw. If you still want a planer, the jointer is needed to first flatten one surface.
 
I have a 3in Rockwell jointer that I bought many years ago. This is a heavy all cast iron tool that is large enough to handle ship modeling wood. I would rather use it than the cheaply made handy man quality tools sold by the big box retailers today. I suspect that you can find an inexpensive one used.
 
Roger Pellett

If you are buying power tools and are buying unseasoned lumber you might find a small jointer more useful. A surface planer does not easily handle twisted lumber. It works best if you can put a flat surface down against the platen and the cutter head then planes the other surface parallel. If you try to plane a board with two irregular surfaces the pressure from the cutter head twists the board.
 
By planing one side flat or better yet two sides flat and square with a jointer you can then square the board's remaining sides with a table saw or band saw. You can then rip uniform slices with a table or band saw. If you still want a planer, the jointer is needed to first flatten one surface.
 
I have a 3in Rockwell jointer that I bought many years ago. This is a heavy all cast iron tool that is large enough to handle ship modeling wood. I would rather use it than the cheaply made handy man quality tools sold by the big box retailers today. I suspect that you can find an inexpensive one used.
 
Roger Pellett

A number of years ago the late model builder William F. Wiseman built a model of the very small river boat Myrtle Corey. He built the model entirely from photographs using geometric projection techniques. The NRG has downloadable copies describing his techniques that can be bought for a few dollars. Look up his name on their website. Mystic Seaport bought his model collection from his estate and those of us that attended last fall's NRG conference got to see them. The photo's in the Journal do not do them justice. I remember seeing his spectacular Far West model but not Myrtle Corey.
 
Roger Pellett

A number of years ago the late model builder William F. Wiseman built a model of the very small river boat Myrtle Corey. He built the model entirely from photographs using geometric projection techniques. The NRG has downloadable copies describing his techniques that can be bought for a few dollars. Look up his name on their website. Mystic Seaport bought his model collection from his estate and those of us that attended last fall's NRG conference got to see them. The photo's in the Journal do not do them justice. I remember seeing his spectacular Far West model but not Myrtle Corey.
 
Roger Pellett

I just noticed an error in my post.
 
The second sentence of the last paragraph should read, "Work the mix into the cloth with a plastic squeegee.
 
Also, make sure that the resin and hardener are well mixed. The system that I use says to mix for a full minute. Another good reason for using a quality marine epoxy system is that some of the better brands have great free customer support information.
 
Roger Pellett

I have some experience working with fiberglass on full sized boats and I mostly made a mess of things until I learned a few simple tricks.
 
First, use a high quality resin/ hardener system, not the stuff from the auto dept of the local big box store. There are a number of high quality boat building resins, all expensive but when you consider the cost and time spent on the kit, a resin that doesn't cure properly is bad news.
 
More hardener is not better! You must mix in the proper proportions. Too much or too little hardener and you will wind up with a sticky mess. Select a quality resin/ hardener system that comes with a reliable way of metering resin and hardeneR. For the system that I use, calibrated mini pumps are available that screw into the top of the resin and hardener cans. By alternating squirts of hardener and resin, you can't go wrong.
 
Use glass cloth matched to the application. Fiberglass cloth is cheap, so make sure that you are using nice thin material, not something intended to patch a car fender.
 
Drape the cloth over the hull dry, and then apply the resin hardener mix Work the hardener into the cloth until the weave disappears. Don't put the resin on first and try to "glue" the cloth to it. Believe me, I tried it and wound ep with air trapped under the cloth and bubbles that were impossible to squeege out. Once I learned this trick by accident, I had no trouble working with fiberglass.
 
Roger Pellett

I have some experience working with fiberglass on full sized boats and I mostly made a mess of things until I learned a few simple tricks.
 
First, use a high quality resin/ hardener system, not the stuff from the auto dept of the local big box store. There are a number of high quality boat building resins, all expensive but when you consider the cost and time spent on the kit, a resin that doesn't cure properly is bad news.
 
More hardener is not better! You must mix in the proper proportions. Too much or too little hardener and you will wind up with a sticky mess. Select a quality resin/ hardener system that comes with a reliable way of metering resin and hardeneR. For the system that I use, calibrated mini pumps are available that screw into the top of the resin and hardener cans. By alternating squirts of hardener and resin, you can't go wrong.
 
Use glass cloth matched to the application. Fiberglass cloth is cheap, so make sure that you are using nice thin material, not something intended to patch a car fender.
 
Drape the cloth over the hull dry, and then apply the resin hardener mix Work the hardener into the cloth until the weave disappears. Don't put the resin on first and try to "glue" the cloth to it. Believe me, I tried it and wound ep with air trapped under the cloth and bubbles that were impossible to squeege out. Once I learned this trick by accident, I had no trouble working with fiberglass.
 
Roger Pellett

With regard to dafi's post above two opposite forces act on a submerged object. Gravity equal to the open air weight of the object is pulling it down. Buoyancy equal to the weight of the the water displaced by the object is pushing up. The force on the anchor cable is therefore equal to the net of these two forces.
 
If water is one seventh as dense as wrought iron, then the force on the anchor cable after being broken out is 6/7 not 1/7 of the anchor's weight.
 
Roger Pellett

With regard to dafi's post above two opposite forces act on a submerged object. Gravity equal to the open air weight of the object is pulling it down. Buoyancy equal to the weight of the the water displaced by the object is pushing up. The force on the anchor cable is therefore equal to the net of these two forces.
 
If water is one seventh as dense as wrought iron, then the force on the anchor cable after being broken out is 6/7 not 1/7 of the anchor's weight.
 
Roger Pellett