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proxxon ks 230


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I had a feeling that was the case. holly and boxwood for the build I am planing would cost me over $300 for milled strips, then i noticed how much cheaper sheets were. I got excited when i thought maybe i could mill my own stock with a $130 tool.  but it was to good to be true.  Thanks Mike!

 

Rob

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Yep and turn that $300.00 worth of wood into $800.00 by the time you add the cost of the Byrnes Table saw. They are great saws no doubt about it, but they also ain't no $130.00 either. The only way I could see that kind of investment, I would have to be like 20 years younger and with the intent on scratch building several models. But that is me.

 

Now, I have seen the Microlux mini table saw from Micromark in use and it's great on stock of 1/4 inch hard wood like black walnut and it's cost is a tad less than $200.00. If I were going to buy a mini table saw to scratch build one or two ship models, I would opt for the Microlux. 

 

Lastly, if you don't mind ordering from China, you can usually find milled planking strips on ebay from China sources relatively inexpensive in various woods. I have bought bulk strips this way in the past and have been happy with what I have received. Some strips only requiring only minor sanding on a few edges. But all in all very workable. It took about 3 weeks to get by way of the cheapest shipping I could get, but it was worth it in the end.

 

 

mike

 

http://www.micromark.com/microlux-mini-tilt-arbor-table-saw-for-benchtop-hobby-use,7500.html 

 

My mistake, they have went up a bit since my buddy bought his a couple of years ago, they are now $299.00, but still quite a bit cheaper than the Byrnes and in my opinion as close as you can come to it without biting the bullet and buying a Byrnes.

Edited by mtdoramike
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Sorry, I should have said that if you see yourself doing multiple models in your lifetime, then the Byrnes saw is a good option.  Most of the planking I've worked with is 1mm in thickness, so I can't see spending $130 for a machine that can't rip planks of that thickness.  That being said, if you're going to be one model and done with the hobby, then that's a lot to pay for cutting some planking.

 

I don't think you need to only use if for scratch building either.  I've used mine extensively, and I'm bashing kits at the moment.

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I own both the proxxon KS 230 and the Byrnes.  There is no comparison, and I wouldn't even try to explain the difference.  I will say that you can mill very thin pieces of wood the KS 230 with two simple alterations.  I used a couple pieces of tape around the blade to prevent the wood from being sucked into the hole.  Second was I glued a piece of wood to the fence so that there was no space between the fence and the table surface.  Also the wood glued to the fence stopped just past the beginning of the blade to prevent any kickback or binding.  I made pieces smaller than 1/32 of an inch.

 

Here's the real issue with using this saw.  repeatablity.  if you move the fence, you'll never be able to get the same width at that small of a scale.  That is where the Byrnes with it's micrometer attachment blows this saw away and why I ended up getting the Byrnes in the end.  

 

However, the proxxon is a good saw  if you are only ripping that width once and you don't have to repeat that width exactly again.  If that is the case, Then that $130 dollar saw will shine with those alterations.

 

Just be aware the the proxxon's fence moves when you tighten it and if you need those boards to be exactly 1.0mm it will take some time (and wood) to set it up.

 

Marc

Edited by keelhauled
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Wow guys that was a whole wealth of information really quick. Its alot to think about. So they dont compare but it can be done.in theory i could save for the brynes in 3 weeks i think. And if (though i doubt it) this hobby is a 1 build and done i could always sell it and get $300ish back righht? Oh man between milling machines lathes drill presses sanders rotary tools chop saws and routers. $1500 and i would have such a wookshop!

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Harold Hahn built his spectacular models using an 8in table saw and years ago I scratch built a plank on frame model using similar equipment, so a special purpose miniature saw is not absolutely necessary. Zero gap inserts are not hard to make, and I have had to make them for my Byrnes saw.

 

My Byrnes saw frankly scares me.as I have not found the right blade(s) to saw wood smoothly. The very thin fine toothed blades tend to burn, pinch and bind and a regular 4in circular saw blade often kicks the pieces back. I know that many builders do excellent work with this saw, but I have not figured out how to make it reach its potential.

 

The preferred way to cut thin strips with a table saw is to "cut off " the pieces by running the block between the blade and the fence. This way the thin strips are not pinched between the fence and the blade. This means that the fence has to be indexed for each cut. Rockler makes a jig for ripping thin strips that fits into the groove of a full sized table saw. There is no reason why using a properly set up table saw and this gadget strips thinner than 1/16 in could not be ripped with a high degree of repeatability. There is used to be a post on this forum from a guy who built one of these jigs for his Byrnes saw.

 

Roger Pellett

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Roger,

 

Have look here... I also suggest downloading this section or printing it.   Jeff gives some great pointers on blades for the Byrnes saw.  I've used his info for my MM saw and learned a lot from it.  http://www.hobbymillusa.com/byrnes-saw-operation.php

 

I think it was Grant Dale who posted that tool... used a ball bearing to set the thickness and then the fence was moved, it seems.  Ah.. found it:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10585-thin-ripping-jig-for-the-byrnes-table-saw/

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This is an ongoing debate I constantly have with myself is wether or not to invest in the miniature power tools when I already have all of them in full size. I can see the usefulness of the the minis but I can save a lot of money by modifying my set up with my full size tools. Saving the money allows me to buy kits and materials to continue modeling.

 

Yet every time I see one of these threads talking about the different minis I start adding and thinking about buying them. Maybe one day. Till then I will keep watching and reading on how to set up full size saws to cut those small sizes.

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Before I jumped into model building, all my tools were for full size projects.  Today I was trying to cut 2mm strips from 1/42 thick mahogany veneer.  I tried an X-Acto knife, a veneer saw, a standard razor knife and a high end veneer cutter.  I could not consistently rip 2mm wide strips.

 

Then a light bulb turned on.  I have a DeWalt DW745 jobsite table saw.  I have a .23mm fret saw blade.  All I needed was a zero clearance insert for the table saw.  So I made one from 1/2" laminated MDF and ran some tests.  By the time I fine tuned things, I was ripping 2mm wide planks fairly consistently.  Not a Byrnes, I'm sure, but the cost for me was only some time.

 

plank_ripper.jpg

The block of oak is to keep the veneer down.  The strip of cocobolo clamped to the fence sat tight against the table so the veneer didn't slip under. The saw blade is for cutting fret slots but worked well for this application.

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I have the Proxxon FET saw and have no problem milling wood to 0.1mm consistency for the thicknesses I use. If there's a trick it's getting to know the right sequence in tightening the fence, using a variable stop (there are several types shown on this site), and a featherboard -- as well, of course, as a zero insert which is easy to make for each blade that you use. You also have to ensure the saw blade and fence are correctly angled, though you'd be doing that during set up. Most European modellers seem to use this saw with superb results, although there are also a few specialist saw makers around as well. Frolich used a saw attachment on his old Unimat lathe with wonderful results.

 

I understand the Byrnes saw may obtain great results more easily, but as usual it's a question of how much you want to pay for ease of use.

 

Tony

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