Chuck

Thanks
 
The Queen Anne Barge kit uses pre spiled planks as well.  Its not a big deal to make them.  I basically spile and create the shape for the plank like I normally do on a scratch project.  Once I am satisfied that my plank fits on my prototype I trace it and make a laser cut version.  This laser cut version is then tested on the model.  I will tweak it as needed and when I get it perfect, I glue it into position and move on to the next one.
 
It takes a while but the results are very good.  

Thanks
 
The Queen Anne Barge kit uses pre spiled planks as well.  Its not a big deal to make them.  I basically spile and create the shape for the plank like I normally do on a scratch project.  Once I am satisfied that my plank fits on my prototype I trace it and make a laser cut version.  This laser cut version is then tested on the model.  I will tweak it as needed and when I get it perfect, I glue it into position and move on to the next one.
 
It takes a while but the results are very good.  

Thanks
 
The Queen Anne Barge kit uses pre spiled planks as well.  Its not a big deal to make them.  I basically spile and create the shape for the plank like I normally do on a scratch project.  Once I am satisfied that my plank fits on my prototype I trace it and make a laser cut version.  This laser cut version is then tested on the model.  I will tweak it as needed and when I get it perfect, I glue it into position and move on to the next one.
 
It takes a while but the results are very good.  

I am shooting for September guys....

I am shooting for September guys....

I am shooting for September guys....

Its not a physical group....to clarify....if you dont join this online group (similar to TRiton Group)  then you must wait to buy them.  But if you join the online group....LIke TRiton, which is just a group of build logs of the longboat all in the same area.  The group we are referring to is just the online group put together here on MSW.  Not a physical group in your geographical location.
 
 

I am shooting for September guys....

I have been speaking to Peter Rindlisbacher who is an artist and model maker.  He is the builder and owner of the longboat replica in the photos I posted.  He has already given me some great insight about the rig.  He actually sails this thing and is very knowledgeable.  I believe he is also going to be the dinner speaker this year at the conference.  I have invited him to join our little group project as well.
 
Here are some additional photos of his longboat replica.
 




 
 

Joe I will make probably six kits at a time because that is all I can really make with my capacity.   I wont place them in my storefront until after everyone who has signed up for the group has one.  My guess is around 15 or 20 people.  But remember....no line cutting.  If you sign up for the group you must start a build log.  No short-cutting to get an early kit.  As soon as most have a kit I will place it in my store for anyone to buy and enjoy.
 
Unfortunately a 1/4" scale version is not going to happen.   Just the 1/2" scale version.

By the way....this is a big boat....16" longish.  Is it too big?   Should it be 3/8" scale instead.  I cant do both.   But this is the time to decide.  If I get any further it will be too late and require too much redrafting.
 
Maybe not....I will see what the fellas say when they see it in person Tuesday night at my club meeting.  And getting back to the discussion about me having way too much on my plate to do this project.  Let me fill you in on the timeline so far.  My club met last month in my shop and we discussed a group project.  It was decided that the long boat was the best subject.   I was super busy working on making parts to restock.  But a week ago I started drafting this from the new contemporary draft I had on file.   Over the last week I spent only about 12 -15 hours drafting this model electronically and laser cutting the parts.   I also built several prototype attempts as I tweaked those designs and also arrived finally at the image you see in my last post.  Actually I am a little further along actually.   But all included the project has only taken me about 12-15 hours thus far with most of that time being at my computer drafting.  Maybe I have about 2-3 hours of actual build time.   Thats it.  This will be a very quick build....hopefully, if nothing comes up to ruin it.

I thought you would like Kurt.....remember to add it on your barge frames.   

Nicely done Sam.....try and keep it on the table top from now on though....
 
You might even want to sand those frames and caprail down even thinner if possible.   The thinner it is the more elegant it will look.

 

I hope this level of detail in the log will be good enough for the group build....please dont hesitate to ask any questions.   Yes, I will also write something which will be available in PDF but it will pretty much just be this.....and whatever additions might come up during our conversations.

Continuing along....
 
For those familiar with this design concept from my Queen Anne Barge kit,  you will recognize the two-piece build board.  I have however, tried to make some improvements with each new project based on watching others build them.  In this case,  I have added some slots for bracing blocks.  Two for the transom and two for the bow/stem to stabilize them while planking.  These pieces can be seen below.  But do NOT glue them into the slots.  These will need to be removed at some point in the build.  It will be easier to remove the boat after planking without these in position.  They are a press fit.  If they are too snug....sand them a bit thinner because remember you will be removing them after a few planking strakes are completed.  So make sure they are loose enough for that.
 

There are two types of frames on contemporary models like this and the barge.  One piece frames and two piece frames.  Th etwo piece frames have floors and top timbers.  We will be doing the one piece frames first and there are 5 of them.  Another tip I was given by an individual can be seen below.  You can see thin strips of packaging tape along the inner cut line.  I used heavy and sticky packaging tape.  You can fold over the end to make a tab and place the tape so it spans across the seam.  This will give it added (temporary) strength while fairing and planking.  The tape is put on both sides.  The tabs will make it easier to remove the tape before breaking the inside of each frame free when it comes time to do so.
 

Then once this is finished you must test the frames in their slots on the build board.  They will be very snug by design initially.  You dont want these loose and falling out of the build board.  But you dont want them too tight either.  You want to be able to easily remove them at any time.  The best way to achieve the best fit is to sand the two tabs that fit into each slot just a little at a time until they are the perfect thickness.  You will know when they are good because they will be firmly seated and yet be somewhat easy to remove.  Be careful not to break the small tabs that hold the frame centers in the frames.  No need to clean any laser char.
 
In addition, test the fit of the bottom of the frame so it fits the same in its notch on the keel.  Not too tight and not too loose. The three single piece frames at the stern are shown below being test fit. and the two at the bow should be as well.  Dont glue these into the build board.  That would be a huge mistake.

 
With this completed, lets test the keel assembly on the build board atop the frames.  Carefully place the keel assembly into the stern half of the build board first.  This is a bit tricky if you havent done it before but once you do it a couple of times you figure out the little nuances.  Slip the stern post between the two braces first as you carefully guide the keel onto each frame.  Dont push to hard in each notch of the keel.  You have have tested and filed those so they slide into each notch easily but dont fall out because they are too loose. NOTE the two small additional braces waiting to be installed next.

The two transom blocks in the slots can be moved forward or aft so you can get a good fit against the transom.  Remember that they are not glued in.  The slots for them are longer than needed so they can be adjusted to best advantage.  But once in a good position, you can add the two smaller brace blocks.  These can and should be glued onto the build board. Use a little glue and push them into position against the transom.  But DONT glue them to the transom.  Just glue them to the build board.  These will stabilize the transom even more while planking.  Also use the laser etched lines on the build board to help make sure the transom is straight and not askew.  This method differs from the one I used on the barge kit but I think its an improvement.  Time will tell. 

Then repeat the test fitting of the keel in the bow half of the build board.  Do it the same way except there are no additional stabilizing blocks. These two will do the job and keep the stem from wandering while you add the first few strakes up there.  
 

How it all looks at this stage.   You will be removing and testing the keel many times before its time to glue the keel in position for good.  Now to do the two piece frames.  I also want to point out to those interested....look at the laser char edges of the frames.  You will see how they are not dark and black.  Yellow Cedar is very forgiving thanks to the oil present.   It doesnt effect the gluing either and I am using Titebond II for all my joints.  The build board is just basswood and you can see how dark that gets when laser cutting.   I find it very enjoyable to work in Cedar and removing the char is much easier in my opinion....as Cherry and Basswood burn like crazy.
 

This is 1/2" scale.  I am slowly catching up with my inventory.  In fact other than a few sizes of blocks everything is in good shape.  I have 175 products now or SKU numbers.   Three weeks ago I was either out of stock or nearly out of stock with 70 of them.  But over the last three weeks I have been working like a dog and its now down to just ten items.  Unfortunately these last ten will take a while.....they are mostly blocks which I purposely ignored working on so that I would be able do quickly attend to all of the other stuff.  Now that the other stuff is good to go I am busy knocking off the blocks now.
 
Aside from that....I am nearly finished working on the Stern Mini Kit for the admiralty workshop as well.  That should be done this week.  That will leave me with plenty of time to go back and forth between the Winnie and the longboat.  The Pegasus Xsection will sit idle until this is completed because I think its important to get another group project going here and also in my local club.  I anticipate this longboat will be a very quick project.  It is NOT a very complex model to design or build at all.  I have set a personal and probable deadline of September to get the longboat all finished up.   Then I will get back to Pegasus.
 
I have another update on this project coming today which will show you just how quickly this will come together.
 
Chuck

No sorry Alan....too much redrafting to switch scales.  It would just be too small to do accurately also.  To keep it in scale the frames would need to be 1/32" thick if not thinner.  Thats why I wanted to do this larger version.  I had to compromise on that older 1:48 ME kit.  Using basswod as is done in that kit the frames needed to be made 1/16" thick which is huge so they wouldnt break immediately.   At full size that would be 4" thick.  Did you ever see a long boat with 4 x 4 lumber for frames?  

I actually just caught a small error in my first go-around.  More like an omission.  If you examine the contemporary examples, you will notice that the unrigged model doesnt have holes on the top of the stem for rigging the stay.  But the rigged version does.  So rather than start over....I will use that first model I started as my unrigged version.   I will add the holes on both moving forward however...and I am glad I didnnt start building my other version yet.  But maybe tomorrow.
 

Not including bowsprit about 15" so it is NOT a small model.  Should look very good indeed fully rigged and about 23" or so.  I will know exactly once I develop the rigging plan.
 
I am very fond of 220 grit sandpaper to remove char.  I dont scrape.  It is really not that much of a chore if you are willing to discard your sandpaper the moment it gets clogged and "muddied" with char.  Otherwise you are just pushing the char dust into the wood grain of your pieces and it makes a mess.  I always do a preliminary sanding with the paper to remove most of it along an edge and then switch to a clean piece of sandpaper to finish it up.  Different woods react differently to laser cutting.  Cherry and Pear being among the worst.  They burn really bad and deep.  The yellow cedar on the other hand is really good.  There are natural oild that help prevent deep burning.  Only a light amber residue on most thinner pieces and the thicker ones are still not that bad to clean up.
 
Look at the notches in the last photo that the frames will sit in.  You can get a good idea.  I didnt remove any char from those at all and you can see the color is light and it is pretty clean from the start.
 
Chuck

This new larger longboat model will be build just like the Queen Anne Barge.  All parts whenever possible will be laser cut including the planking which will be pre-spiled.  Below is the plan in progress as compared to the actual contemporary model.
 

 
Below are the initial parts that make up the keel assembly.  There will be a more simplified version of the keel assembly and another that is lightly more chalenging.  As is done on the contemporary model, lap joints will be used to connect the stem and stern post to the keel.  The simplified version will just utilize a butt joint and laser cut scarph joint to attach the stem to the keel.  I have started building the simplified version first shown on top of the photo below.
 

Before removing the laser cut parts from the sheet, they were sanded down with 220 grit sandpaper on both sides to remove the char.  Its easier to do while they are still contained in the sheet.
 

Then the three main (5/32" thick) parts that comprise the stem, the keel and stern post were assembled.  I used yellow glue to assemble them prior to sanding the char from the edges of each piece.  In fact I purposely didnt remove it from the joints...they are laser cut fairly precise and fit together very well.  Using tite-bond works great and the joint is very strong as long as you let it fully dry.  Once dry I sanded the char from all of the edges and prepared to add the other (3/32" thick) cedar parts that make up the keel assembly.

These were treated the same way.  I didnt remove any char from the edges util after they were glued into position.  They are very delicate and it is safer and easier to do after they are glued into position.  These thinner pieces were centered along the keel leaving 1/32" on each side to form a rabbet or "lip" for the external planking.

Next up I added the transom...it has a laser etched groove down the inside to help position it properly.  It helps a lot but I was also very careful to also square up the transom properly in relation to the keel.
 

Thats it for now....I have one last part to add to this stem assembly before I start assembling the frames.  I will post that very soon.
 

This is the start of my build for the Medway Longboat.  There are two really special contemporary models in the NMM.  This is a totally revamped and completely new longboat project with actually little in common with my earlier design for Model Shipways.  It is based on an entirely different original draft and more closely resembles the contemporary models.  In fact its almost identical as far as I can tell.  It will be a true POF model with floors and top timbers.  This model will be made from Alaskan Yellow Cedar with boxwood accents and molding.  This model will be made both partially planked and fully planked eventually just like the two contemporary models.  The fully planked version will show all rigging and also sails.  Hopefully.
 
A little about the contemporary models shown below.
 
Scale 1:48. A contemporary full hull model of a ship's longboat, said to be from the 'Medway' (1742) (SLR0328), built plank on frame in the Navy Board style. The model is partially planked and equipped with a large windlass amidships for use when handling the anchors. It is mounted on its original veneered baseboard. Another model, SLR0330, shows the ‘Medway’ longboat rigged and fully planked. The longboat was generally the largest boat carried on board ship and could either be pulled or sailed. It was used for carrying personnel and stores as well as mooring and anchors work. When carried on board, the longboat was stowed in the waist between the fore and main masts lashed on the spare topmasts and spars. It was hoisted in and out by means of the large block and tackles rigged to the lower fore and main yards.
 


A contemporary full hull model of the 'Medway' (1742), shown below - 60-gun two-decker ship of the line
 

 

 

Very nicely done.....almost time to start putting some skin on those bones!!!

I have been speaking to Peter Rindlisbacher who is an artist and model maker.  He is the builder and owner of the longboat replica in the photos I posted.  He has already given me some great insight about the rig.  He actually sails this thing and is very knowledgeable.  I believe he is also going to be the dinner speaker this year at the conference.  I have invited him to join our little group project as well.
 
Here are some additional photos of his longboat replica.
 




 
 

Probably Not Chuck....The cross section is one project that I work on a little at a time.  Right now my priority is the Winnie.  The longboat build is something I am putting together for my local club as a an actual "group build" that a bunch of us will take part in.   So those are two I am finalizing first..
 
The cross section will proceed, but slowly, as its more involved and the plans arent even fully developed yet.   It will get there though.  
 
Joe, the Hayling is a much more complex project than Winnie.  Although smaller it isnt something that will take any less time actually in my opinion to build.  But it would do just the same and make a fine project to call an online group build.  An online group build is very different in the sense that we set up a special area where folks can build at there own pace.  All of the logs are in the same area and the project can be led and moderated by the person who designed and created the project.  They would offer mentoring and advice.  Collectively the group can solve problems and explore different methods for building the same subject.  Because they are all in the same area it is easier for the group to mange and look at each others progress.  See the group forum for the Admiralty models Echo cross section.   That is what we would do when setting up a group build for Hayling or other subjects.
 
Having a starter package for Hayling or any other project is really up to the authors and designers of the model.  So David would have to arrange for the creation of such a starter package.   In order to be considered a group project there also needs to be a minimum of six participants before we can start one.  So we would need to get the commitment of at least six members before we start a group of any subject.   Keep that in mind.
 
Now if we get six members that tell me they commit to building the Hayling and each will start a build log, we will certainly start a group area for it and I would talk to David to see if he would moderate and mentor the group online.  
 
As we talk about a group project more I will take down names to see if we have six members willing to start build logs of whatever subject seems most popular.  Something like Hayling would NOT be an NRG sponsored project but just a separate group area we are always willing to set up for any subject we have six or more commitments for.  We will set up such an area for any group actually.  Similar to the Echo Cross section.  You buy the book and plans from Admiralty and start a log in the new area we set up...unaffiliated with the NRG other than we will accommodate the group.
So let me distinguish between the two types of group projects.
 
The first type is done by and wholly sanctioned by the NRG.  They sponsor the research, creation and dissemination of all items associated with the project. They own it.  Currently none exist that have been specifically designed for an online group.  Although you could add the Galley Washington and the Oyster Sharpie to the list for projects that are immediately available for a group forum.
 
The second type is a group set up to build a project NOT affiliated or owned by the NRG at all.  This would be something like the Hayling, the Winnie or the Long boat.  
 
Depending on how things go with this discussions about a Winnie or Longboat group,  the same is true.  We need six to commit.  It doesnt have to be a project that is designed by the NRG for the forum at all, but they have set aside funds to create one based on what folks want to build that might not be already available and its why nothing is ready yet.  I mention the Winnie, the longboat and Hayling here only because many of you are clamoring to begin a group sooner than later.  They wouldnt really be NRG designed and owned projects.  Hopefully that is clear.  
 
Now...before the NRG starts designing and sanctioning a new project, they want to get an idea of what you guys want....so they dont waste years and $$$ developing a project that we cant get six people to commit to.  Thus the discussion we are having.  But non NRG subjects are fair game and can be started immediately if available and we have a moderator and six committed build logs.
 
If you guys think it would help,  I can add these subjects to the poll for immediate consideration for a group project.  If we get six commitments then we can start one.  BUt we still need to choose new subjects for later.
 
I will add to the poll so you guys should check out the new question. and give some input.
 
-The Washington Galley (NRG Owned) Currently no starter package or kit, plans only
-The Oyster Sharpie (NRG Owned) No starter package or kit, plans only
-The Hayling - Currently no starter package, plans only
-The HMS Winchelsea 1764 - 3-4 months away  - has a starter package and plans
-Medway Longboat 1742 - 3-4 months away - has full kit with plans
-None of the above....you will wait for another new choice
 

We want to get a consensus so we shall see if any one topic/subject is preferred and we shall seek one out.  And dont forgetthe other question I asked.....shall we keep it as scratch projects only or offer some sort of starter package?
 
I love Michaels cutter project......perhaps.