shiloh

Don't believe that type of pump was used to build pressure to fight fire, maybe used to fill a bucket. It would take 3 or more of those pumps ganged with very well kept seals and valves to build pressure and hold in a pressure tank to do that. It does not look like original equipment. If being used to pump from a cask of water, the cask  would need to be vented or open. Years ago my brother and I were charged with filling the shower for the harvest crew. That was where I now live, but not then. The old homestead house was here but no pressurized water. Water flowed from an artisan spring, down a ditch to a horse trough, drinking water was caught at the spring and never reached the ditch. The old hand pump was mounted on the side of the trough and we used it to fill buckets that we carried up a ladder to a 55 gallon drum. Done in the early morning so the sun would heat the shower water, a valve and shower head, wooden deck and curtains completed the water works.
jud

Don't believe that type of pump was used to build pressure to fight fire, maybe used to fill a bucket. It would take 3 or more of those pumps ganged with very well kept seals and valves to build pressure and hold in a pressure tank to do that. It does not look like original equipment. If being used to pump from a cask of water, the cask  would need to be vented or open. Years ago my brother and I were charged with filling the shower for the harvest crew. That was where I now live, but not then. The old homestead house was here but no pressurized water. Water flowed from an artisan spring, down a ditch to a horse trough, drinking water was caught at the spring and never reached the ditch. The old hand pump was mounted on the side of the trough and we used it to fill buckets that we carried up a ladder to a 55 gallon drum. Done in the early morning so the sun would heat the shower water, a valve and shower head, wooden deck and curtains completed the water works.
jud

Could all of that been used as a vent for the pump and provide for a head, so air is not spitting out at the hose bib. Might also been used to prime the pump? Real frustration to find the priming water gone, when needing  drink.
jud

Could all of that been used as a vent for the pump and provide for a head, so air is not spitting out at the hose bib. Might also been used to prime the pump? Real frustration to find the priming water gone, when needing  drink.
jud

The key for us is the use of the word "spline", and the picture of the draftsman using a batten to find or draw the lines. In CAD most programs can draw a curved line along a series of points that don't fall along a straight line.  You could use this to draw an osilating line as in the video. This does all that math for you.
 
In DesignCAD they are drawn using the "Draw Lines Curved" command. In AutoCAD "Draw Spline". DesignCAD also has a curve, called a "Bezier curve, but that involves tangents, and I have never used it.
 
This is the type of line I use to trace a sheer, or a frame line. In DesignCAD you can even specify a file with a list of points along the curve, and it will draw the curved line for you. If you have an offset table, these points can  be generated from the table. The kicker is that the points in the file must start at one end, and finish at the other. This means determining the flow of the points in the offset table. I generally use a spreadsheet, to manipulate the offset points, into an end to end flow.

Brings back fond memories of studying and tutoring algebra, but it's not something you need to know about in terms of ship modeling.
 
The "modeling" the narrator is speaking about is Mathematical Modeling, not physical construction of hulls.
 
These days, I think the only time polynomial mathematics come in to play is all "under the hood" when using CAD and illustration software. The computers use the math, not the CAD operators or the architects. Important stuff, but mostly when developing the computer software. Of course, not really being into CAD myself, maybe someone with more experience on the subject can chime in on that.
 
But, if you enjoy the math, study it. It can be fascinating stuff and great mental exercise.
 
Clare

This might be a good time to review my intent and where I am.
 
From the outset I intended to do this cross section because it is an area where ‘things happen aboard a ship’.  People eat, sleep and work.
+
So, the idea was to include all of that if possible (some guns, a mast, etc were just gravy), but hammocks and the oven were to be there. That is why I selected the section that is now known (by me) as being between beams 11 and 4. As it turned out, this area also includes the old gun powder room and its cartridge filling station (which I still believe is below this part of the orlop deck).
 
However, I also wanted to include the structural parts of the ship: show the beams, carlings and joists. So, the port side was to show the whole and the starboard side the details.
I started with the keel and some of the frames. Then it occurred to me that the various decks would have to go between those frames. And I asked the question, ‘ Would it not be a lot more interesting, if not better, to make those decks with the details they deserve rather than trying to put all of that inside the frames afterwards?’
 
I started following the plans shown in Marquardt’ marvelous book ‘Anatomy of the Ship’, making each deck with beams, an oven and other details. I figured that even if all of this were not to come about, I would be having fun doing exactly that. For example, the hammocks for the berth deck have been made and will be installed as a final thing there; the LED for the oven is in place (but they will also be installed at two other places on the berth and gun decks), and, of course, the powder room, below the forward orlop deck is still in question. But the answers to that will come, I hope. At least Henry clarified that there are two scuttles where those light were being lowered below the orlop deck (forward sail room floor).
The hick-up with the oven and stove-pipe location has created a bit of a delay and will be resolved. But the introduction of comments from Henry and Tom (about the Google link) has been very informative.
To do:
·         The hatches on the gun and berth decks will be redone to show the new location and sizes.  Additional gratings and stairs will have to be made. That means that there should be stairs going all the way from the spar deck down to the orlop deck.
·         Cut the oven platform shorter (with oven and lights in place) to fit where it belongs. I already have cut new holes in the decks for the riding bits. But all of this needs to be refitted and aligned with the smoke stack.
·         The orlop deck on my model will be configured like she is now. Part of this has been cut.
·         Generate some new drawing about all of the above.
I will keep me posted (as well as you).

I use computer paper wrapped a couple of times, a small amount of glue under the paper, and between the layers.  I also make my own crossbar from wood as it is two pieces that do not meet in the middle, only at the ends, squeezing the shank of the anchor between, in a little notch.

Years ago when I worked for an aircraft company, they said when the weight of the documentation equals the weight of the airplane, the airplane will fly..  I'm not sure how true that is, though.   :P  

Nenad.  The grating is a nice touch.  There is also one by the ship's wheel to keep the deck from wearing down.  Sometimes they are also in front of the companion ways.
 
Izzy, nice photo.  It's my understanding that it is similar to how the Cutty operates.  According to Longridge, the Cutty has a turned up angle on the tumbler rod that holds the cat stopper chain. When the tumbler is rotated the chain slides of the bent portion of the tumbler.
 
As to the scale and cleats.  I'm right there with you.  I was drilling a line of holes for my fairleads with  #77 size holes in a piece of walnut with a  1/64" x 1/64"  cross section by hand.  Crazy.    No one will ever see something that small or care.  I ended up switching to 1/32 X 1/32 to make my life easier and no one will ever know that they are off scale 1/64 of an inch.  Also finally broke down and purchased an x-y table for the drill.  That should help as well!
 
Marc

Hi,
 
Just been catching up on your great build. And having found this image I wondered if it might be of any use. It's not of any particular ship just the generic design points
 
Hope it's informative at least.
 

Fittings intended to pass ammo through or hoists are made of brass or aluminum, at least on the Helena, not so much where fixed ammo was handled but semi fixed ammo handling rooms and hoists were fairly well spark proof ed. The spaces where bag powder was handled, spark making material was not allowed, even the tools in those spaces were aluminum or bronze. Might interest some, that the bag guns had a series of flames for  their ignition systems. First was a 45 70  cartridge, 'looked like a blank or the line throwing gun cartridge', which sent a flame down through the mushroom stem into the black powder pad sewn onto the end of every bag of powder. That black powder is what set off the smokeless powder and was the compound that made handling powder bags dangerous. In the gun rooms water tanks were kept to dump the bags into during an emergency. You can bet that those brass hatches were a route for black powder cartridges to be passed through.
jud

You might design a ship with several cross sections using circular curves that can be described using chord segments and radius having the PT and PC's tangent but every cross section between them would be transition spirals, 'constantly changing radius'. Spirals are hard to work with, we used to stake C/L using offsets from the back tangent, for the described C/L curves.Then to stake the edge of pavement or ROW we needed to do so from that marked spiral center line and go perpendicular the needed distance to be truly parallel, parallel spirals do not exist on the same plane, your computer will compute one that is close but not truly parallel. Ships tend to be made up with constantly changing radius curves in all directions, you can draw the horizontal segments of the hull from the keel up or in the other direction to the shape you need, then create the needed cross sections to obtain the shape of the ribs, don't believe it is done the other way around. There are people on this board who design vessels for a living, I don't, but as a Registered Land Surveyor I have worked with curves. Route Location and  Design by Hickerson will probably explain all you will ever want to know about curves and provide the tables that will make it easier to work with them, remember this work was done before computers, my copy is the 5th addition, copyright renewal 1964, 'Library of Congress Card Number 99-25479'. Math and Geometry does not change.
jud

You might design a ship with several cross sections using circular curves that can be described using chord segments and radius having the PT and PC's tangent but every cross section between them would be transition spirals, 'constantly changing radius'. Spirals are hard to work with, we used to stake C/L using offsets from the back tangent, for the described C/L curves.Then to stake the edge of pavement or ROW we needed to do so from that marked spiral center line and go perpendicular the needed distance to be truly parallel, parallel spirals do not exist on the same plane, your computer will compute one that is close but not truly parallel. Ships tend to be made up with constantly changing radius curves in all directions, you can draw the horizontal segments of the hull from the keel up or in the other direction to the shape you need, then create the needed cross sections to obtain the shape of the ribs, don't believe it is done the other way around. There are people on this board who design vessels for a living, I don't, but as a Registered Land Surveyor I have worked with curves. Route Location and  Design by Hickerson will probably explain all you will ever want to know about curves and provide the tables that will make it easier to work with them, remember this work was done before computers, my copy is the 5th addition, copyright renewal 1964, 'Library of Congress Card Number 99-25479'. Math and Geometry does not change.
jud

Jhenrique,
I don't think you will find what you are seeking.
 
I am a professional Naval Architect and shipbuilder. The last vessel I built had a drawing package of approximately 15,000 documents ranging from 1 to several hundred sheets or pages each. Simply too much data to present as a single drawing.
 
Classic vessels were typical built by craftsmen working off physical models and rules of thumb. Then came lofting & molding of templates off tables of offsets. Now numeric models feed directly into automated cutters that nest as many parts as possible from a single plate. Often, layout instructions are burned directly onto the pieces.
 
R/
Jerry

Fittings intended to pass ammo through or hoists are made of brass or aluminum, at least on the Helena, not so much where fixed ammo was handled but semi fixed ammo handling rooms and hoists were fairly well spark proof ed. The spaces where bag powder was handled, spark making material was not allowed, even the tools in those spaces were aluminum or bronze. Might interest some, that the bag guns had a series of flames for  their ignition systems. First was a 45 70  cartridge, 'looked like a blank or the line throwing gun cartridge', which sent a flame down through the mushroom stem into the black powder pad sewn onto the end of every bag of powder. That black powder is what set off the smokeless powder and was the compound that made handling powder bags dangerous. In the gun rooms water tanks were kept to dump the bags into during an emergency. You can bet that those brass hatches were a route for black powder cartridges to be passed through.
jud

Fittings intended to pass ammo through or hoists are made of brass or aluminum, at least on the Helena, not so much where fixed ammo was handled but semi fixed ammo handling rooms and hoists were fairly well spark proof ed. The spaces where bag powder was handled, spark making material was not allowed, even the tools in those spaces were aluminum or bronze. Might interest some, that the bag guns had a series of flames for  their ignition systems. First was a 45 70  cartridge, 'looked like a blank or the line throwing gun cartridge', which sent a flame down through the mushroom stem into the black powder pad sewn onto the end of every bag of powder. That black powder is what set off the smokeless powder and was the compound that made handling powder bags dangerous. In the gun rooms water tanks were kept to dump the bags into during an emergency. You can bet that those brass hatches were a route for black powder cartridges to be passed through.
jud

J, (since I'm not sure of your name...  )
 
You'll find quite a bit off on scale....  not just barrels (they're tad too long and still not really the "right" type).  The wheel is too big also.   Did your kit come with the "little guys"?   They are actually 1:64 scale.  The model is around 1:85 so a couple of HO figures would give a better idea of scale.  Don't toss the "little guys" as you can use them with any model 1:64 to maybe 1:72.  If I remember anything else that was off on this, I'll give a yell.
 
Ah.. I found the picture I was looking for.. the top gun is what came with my kit.  Very much an SciFi looking gun....
 

I have looked over quite a few build logs. It seems that almost everyone has the elm pumps angled somewhat so I have turned them just a bit to fit into the current deck configuration and give them some angulation. Now elm pumps 2.0.
 


 
...of course: they are still not yet glued in prep for Elm Pumps 3.0!

If you haven't glued those pumps in yet, might think about the handles being inboard and stowed with the handles up, out of harms way. No reference but were I placing the real pumps, that is how I would do it. You are doing great on this model, when I start the same build I will be following your steps closely.
jud

For marking the shroud locations on the card, I just mark the tops and bottom position of each shroud, then remove the card and use a straight edge on the bench to make straight lines between the two marks for each shroud.

Here is an example, how to do it. I used miniature clothespins (from Michaels's or Hobby Lobby or similar place), or instead, you can use mini alligator clips from an electronic store, whatever is around you. After installing all ratlines, flip the card and mount it behind shrouds on the opposite side and start all over.
Waxing the ratlines after installation is nearly impossible, so wax your line BEFORE.
Have fun! 

Jud:
I understood your idea, but I was saying that adding the glue to the thread before tapering makes it easier to do the taper.
 
Russ

When threading a sewing needle for sewing leather I was taught to lay the end of the thread out on a surface, one hand holding the thread and the other using the cutting edge of a sharp knife, held perpendicular to the thread, to scrape the last  2 inches into a tapered point. Might try that before using the glue to stiffen the thread at the point.
jud

When threading a sewing needle for sewing leather I was taught to lay the end of the thread out on a surface, one hand holding the thread and the other using the cutting edge of a sharp knife, held perpendicular to the thread, to scrape the last  2 inches into a tapered point. Might try that before using the glue to stiffen the thread at the point.
jud