shiloh

I wouldn't be surprised at all by their answer at all. They like both. I have been building models professionally for museums all over the world for more than 20 years. Museums like a clean finished model when the display is on a stand with no contemporaneous surroundings to give it context. It's easier for visitors to determine the form and function without the distraction of weathering.
 
When a model is to be displayed in a diorama setting, then weathering is required by the museum to show the condition of the vessel in it's natural surroundings.
 
So you have got your wish, there is 'a place for both' but the world isn't 'changing', museums have had these preferences for many many decades.
 
Here you will find there are no preferences, everyone builds in the way they feel most comfortable expressing their considerable talents. There are no restrictions on how models are finished, there are no 'inner circles' and no 'wrong' way of building or presenting a model.
 
Long may it continue.
 
Dan.

I have close to 4 decades under my belt building plastic and resin models (see my latest stuff here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4423-what-else-do-you-model-besides-ships/?p=343803 ).  The main reason why I wouldn't want to paint and weather a wooden ship model is wood is a wonderful natural material, and a wooden ship model is something I create myself from raw materials.  I want to showcase what I created, rather than cover it up with paint and weathering.  A plastic or resin model, on the other hand, is essentially already formed/shaped by the manufacturer, so there is no reason to leave it uncovered.  I modify heavily every plastic or resin kit I've built.  To me the art in plastic or resin model building comes from painting and weathering.  In wooden ship modeling, I feel the art comes from the creation of a finished product from what is essentially a pile of sticks and string.  That's my humble $.02. 
 
Erik

Spent some time aboard and part of my work was keeping her presentable, at least the guns, she was 24 years old then. She is still serving in the South China Sea, looking a little weathered. I would want the clean appearance in a model of her.
 
Looked again the vessel indicated as the Sierra Madre, ( USS Harnett County LST 821 ) came from a group of photos on the net labeled for that ship and I grabbed it without looking closer, she is not the Sierra Madre. The lase photo is, you can see the difference in the superstructure, tripod mast, more guns forward and the cargo boom for handling PBR's.
jud

Uh.. what rules?   The rules as such... build what you want, the way you want.    As for "looking stupid"... I don't think so.  The reason for this site is to learn from each other and that works in spades.   We all make mistakes but that doesn't make us stupid.
 
 
There's another purpose of this site... the build logs, the questions and answers.  They all do more for sorting things than any "official review" could ever do.  There's several manufacturers do read and post here and listen to what's being said.  

Ships and boats are expensive, kind of like your car. Owners go to a lot of trouble to keep them looking good as you probably do for your car. Sitting at the curb you probably have it looking nice, out on the road in dirty conditions for a while, it will look rough until you clean it up. I expect a model, sitting in a stand to look new, if a part of a Dorma, she should reflect the conditions depicted. Weathering a stand alone model has no appeal to me, others feel differently, so, as indicated in the above post, do what you wish, it is you that needs to be pleased, not me or anyone else.
jud

Spent some time aboard and part of my work was keeping her presentable, at least the guns, she was 24 years old then. She is still serving in the South China Sea, looking a little weathered. I would want the clean appearance in a model of her.
 
Looked again the vessel indicated as the Sierra Madre, ( USS Harnett County LST 821 ) came from a group of photos on the net labeled for that ship and I grabbed it without looking closer, she is not the Sierra Madre. The lase photo is, you can see the difference in the superstructure, tripod mast, more guns forward and the cargo boom for handling PBR's.
jud

Ships and boats are expensive, kind of like your car. Owners go to a lot of trouble to keep them looking good as you probably do for your car. Sitting at the curb you probably have it looking nice, out on the road in dirty conditions for a while, it will look rough until you clean it up. I expect a model, sitting in a stand to look new, if a part of a Dorma, she should reflect the conditions depicted. Weathering a stand alone model has no appeal to me, others feel differently, so, as indicated in the above post, do what you wish, it is you that needs to be pleased, not me or anyone else.
jud

I agree 100%, but you are obviously missing the point of my counter argument, so will leave it there.
 
Enjoy your modelling and weather as much or as little as you think appropriate and it will still be welcome on this site and enjoyed by many.
 
Cheers
Slog

Ships and boats are expensive, kind of like your car. Owners go to a lot of trouble to keep them looking good as you probably do for your car. Sitting at the curb you probably have it looking nice, out on the road in dirty conditions for a while, it will look rough until you clean it up. I expect a model, sitting in a stand to look new, if a part of a Dorma, she should reflect the conditions depicted. Weathering a stand alone model has no appeal to me, others feel differently, so, as indicated in the above post, do what you wish, it is you that needs to be pleased, not me or anyone else.
jud

Old Man,
 
Do you get pleasure and enjoyment from the hours you spend on your models?
Do you get satisfaction from finding and reusing scrap materials?
Does this hobby and methodology fit your interests and budget?
 
If yes, then you are doing it EXACTLY the right way for you.
 
Enjoy it.
 
Regards,
 
Richard

As a new builder, and a retired person with a very low monthly cash flow, I am afraid to order a Kit. Living on a isolated Island, I am forced to buy everything sight unseen.   If I spend $300-$400, plus shipping cost, for a Kit that has poor materials, then I am forced to replace those materials for another added cost.  Many times the shipping costs for items I order, exceed the price of the item I am ordering!
 
I would love to build a custom Kit, with the finest custom Laser cut materials. But, I am new to the hobby. What if I make a mistake? One that cannot be corrected. Or did a poor job in building. Which is most likely.  Now it's $500-$700 in the wood stove.
 
I guess that's why I am only building with scrap materials. Or making my own by purchasing 1/16 Basswood sheets and laminating it together with Elmers Glue.  

Whatever pleases anyone who buys a kit, then makes their own parts, tickles me plum silly! What brings pleasure to the model maker is all that counts. If others find fault with that, let them find pleasure in being ignored.
jud

Would work if the side view you are using is a true side view as you would find in a mechanical drawing. A mechanical drawing using A top view, side view and end view would show the effects of the hull curves on the side view, there would be no uniform gun port widths along the hull. Don't think the side view you are probably using is that type of side view, if everything along the hull is uniform it is not. Now time for others to take it from here.
jud

It's pretty rough up close.  I had no plans. No past experience. Bought 2 used books. Used this web site and Dr. Google.  All the parts are hand cut from wood I found, or Bass wood I was able to buy. Lot's of carving and sanding. I'm sure the scale is off in some areas. I know I made the stern deck too low. Lot's of small mistakes I'm sure. Filled the garbage bucket with sometimes hours of work. Compared with the quality on this site, it's Folk Art.
 
I am finding rigging to be a bad experience. I have poor eyesight, loss of feeling in my fingers. CA glue makes me sick.
Bought the canon and grating. Those little canon are like gold nuggets!  Plus, I really don't care for them. 

I took up this hobby about 3 months ago. Why? Because I am too crippled for sports like golf. I am on a limited income, so that eliminates railroad building, coin collecting and just about everything else. Starting out was not expensive. I collected my tools from garage sales, friends, and my wood from the lumber yard. Sure, I have spent some money. But I have been busy with my new hobby. Working 2-3 hours per day on it.  Sure, my model looks more like folk art up close, but at ten feet away, it isn't bad for someone who doesn't know what they are doing.  Will I continue with this hobby? I don't know. Will I ever buy a expensive Kit? I don't know. All I know is that I am enjoying myself, and keeping busy.
 
A person starting out does not need to make a large investment. Looking back in my life, every time I started a new project, I always thought I needed to buy the best of everything. I'm too old to make that mistake again.
 
Should I chose to build a Kit in the future, I do see advantages for replacing parts and wood. Tools? They seem to always collect themselves.  Right now I'll just go with flow, and see where it all ends up. It is a hobby you know.
 
 
 
 

I'm not so sure if I understand what you are talking about , is it if I replace the Kit cannons because they are not realistic, are you talking about if I replace the blocks because they aren't to scale, are you talking about replacing cleats that are far too large and bulky, are you talking about replacing cheap rigging to replace it with quality stuff that actually looks good, or, maybe it is replacing the kit supplied dowels because they are warped, or, maybe it is replacing the hull planks because the kit asks for hull to be painted and has supplied crap wood but I want it natural so I replace it with a quality wood ?
I could go on further, but as you can see it is not all by choice why people replace expensive parts and pieces it is the manufacturer supplying inferior parts and material doubled my quest to make the best model to my abilities. I would gladly pay more for a kit if I knew all parts and material were of top quality, however, as the kit manufacturer is trying to keep his costs down and the retail price within reason we will never see this.
 On my current build I have replaced 80 percent of the wood some of it for the reasons mentioned above and  other because I wanted to show my insight and taste to this ship. I think changing different things in a kit does not mean that I should be going to a scratch build I think it means that I have the ingenuity to build a model that is truly unique to me. I agree that a scratch build would do the same but could you imagine how MSW would look if we all built our ships to spec. using nothing but kit supplied material, might just be a little boring.
  So you see, my friend, there several reasons why we do the things we do.
 And as for all my left over wood and parts I'll use that for my first scratch build     
 

Janos,
 
It would appear that Chuck is doing this.  The Lumberyard offers "timbering kits' where you buy the plans and select your wood.  So far, those and maybe Bob Hunt of whom I nothing of his current operation but he did in the past,  have been the only ones doing this.
 
What I got into in my previous build was heavy kit bash... It just pointed me to scratchbuilding since the kit was heavily modified.  
 
It's really a pity that the kit makers don't consider this or offer this.  Or maybe offer something like plans, metal parts...  and the modeler supplies his/her own wood.   

As probably one of the most extreme kitbashers on this forum,whilst this may be a valid question,why should I have to justify why I do what I do?
Bottom line,I take whatever route makes me happiest.It is only money,my time spent on a build is far more precious to me.
 
Offended no,a little annoyed yes.I make a point of NEVER criticizing other modelers' choices on this forum,directly or indirectly.I post on here in the hope that some of my work may prove useful to others less experienced than myself.
 
Nigel 

Whatever pleases anyone who buys a kit, then makes their own parts, tickles me plum silly! What brings pleasure to the model maker is all that counts. If others find fault with that, let them find pleasure in being ignored.
jud

Whatever pleases anyone who buys a kit, then makes their own parts, tickles me plum silly! What brings pleasure to the model maker is all that counts. If others find fault with that, let them find pleasure in being ignored.
jud

Whatever pleases anyone who buys a kit, then makes their own parts, tickles me plum silly! What brings pleasure to the model maker is all that counts. If others find fault with that, let them find pleasure in being ignored.
jud

I agree everyone is different.
Let everyone do there own thing and lets move on to something worth while.

Whatever pleases anyone who buys a kit, then makes their own parts, tickles me plum silly! What brings pleasure to the model maker is all that counts. If others find fault with that, let them find pleasure in being ignored.
jud

Whatever pleases anyone who buys a kit, then makes their own parts, tickles me plum silly! What brings pleasure to the model maker is all that counts. If others find fault with that, let them find pleasure in being ignored.
jud

Whatever pleases anyone who buys a kit, then makes their own parts, tickles me plum silly! What brings pleasure to the model maker is all that counts. If others find fault with that, let them find pleasure in being ignored.
jud