jazzchip

Thanks for the review. I look forward to adding Bond to my reading list.

Jazzchip

I feel for you jazzchip! And I can relate. I am on my first build as well. No other modeling or woodworking experience. I went with a Model Shipways kit (Niagara) because after some research it seemd like they did a relatively decent job with instructions. Well if this is decent I would hate to see poor!

 

The instructions (at least there are some) are at too high a level - they just glaze over a lot of steps. The plans use the description "typical" to describe a lot of  structures. If you have never seen one before, what is typical?

 

I am very grateful to the folks here at MSW. There are numerous build logs for Niagara and I have been going mainly by their pix.

Mikiek, I've compared the experience to being put in a foreign country with no language skills and no knowledge of where you are. There feels as if there is no "step 1." When I read "squaring the sternpost" or "establish the fore and aft centerline" there are long moments of staring at the page followed by doing something else besides modeling. I guess that I can't expect the writer of instructions to write down to my level but without basic knowledge or someone nearby with that knowledge I don't know how one advances. You were gutsy to take on that model. I'm looking for a model consisting of two pieces that need gluing and hoping I don't have it stuck to my chest at the end of the process.

Nic,

Thanks. My dealing with you has been quite pleasant so far. I appreciate your comments. My concern is for Mr. Cook's sanity. I fear that a few calls from me and he may want to leave the country. I will say that his not having a computer makes sending him anything far more time consuming. 

Thank you again for your interest. I hope the new modelers notice that the owner of BlueJacket took the time to contact me. This shows a level of customer service that most companies don't offer.

Warmest regards,

Jazzchip

jazzchip, for what it's worth, I am offering an "intro to wooden model building course" through my local adult-education center this spring. The goal is to focus on hands-on demonstrations and experiences with basic aspects of aircraft and ship modelling, right down to having a few open kit boxes for people to peruse and practicing how to bend and shape wood strips.

 

My background in education tells me that many people are visual or experiential learners, whereas modelling instructions and books are almost all text-learning. Many people would benefit greatly from 1/2 hour with someone else live, which is what I'm hoping to achieve in my class.

 

I'm far from a master modeler, but have built enough to be able to pass along a lot of basic help. I also intend to display a number of my models and have students critique them, a sort of "what did I do wrong" session where we can all discuss better ways of doing things.

 

I hope it goes well.

That's outstanding. You are doing more to increase interest in modeling than anyone I know. I wish you great success. I hope you will let us know how the class went. 

Jazzchip

Jazzchip, check out our parent organization's mentor program: http://www.thenrg.org/nrg-mentoring-program-program.php

That's great. I was not aware of that. Is that shown in a prominent place? 

my experience with adults in learning situations is that they are hesitant to display their lack of knowledge. Given that, saying "just ask" is ineffective. 

Ask yourself how you react in situations in which you lack knowledge. This is not unique to modelers. Very young children who do not yet have a sense of self are far more apt to acknowledge their lack of understanding but once the ego begins development there is a growing hesitancy to admit not knowing or understanding.

I thought of something last evening and I'd like to offer it up for discussion. The idea will not help me because, if it is adopted, by the time it is I will have either left out of frustration or acquired the entry level skills that one would need to complete the easier models.

I assume that there are many new members who lack the skills necessary to be successful at modeling. We will never know because they don't share this information but I assume that you can understand why someone may not want to admit a lack of basic knowledge to a population of 20K+ members.

If you've ever taught a class of adults, you know that rarely will you get one of them to admit a lack of understanding of what you've said and that's in front of a relatively few people.

How about creating a squad of volunteers who make themselves available to newbies? Communication would be through personal mail rather than through the larger forums.

-I believe that we would get more new members staying longer because they will have more success.

-New members will form closer and more trusting relationships will select members and will be less hesitant about asking questions.

-I believe that it will bring the overall group even closer.

Volunteer members should be individuals who enjoy teaching, a more patient than most and really want to mentor others.Perhaps there could be a listing of volunteers to the squad will their expertise and why they want to help others. There is much more to work out in terms of details but I wanted to offer this idea to see if there is interest.

Jazzchip

Jazzchip,

 

I completely understand your frustration. Following instructions which may say "nail the knibler to the wackadoodle" can be a real problem if you don't know what a hammer is, much less a knibler or wackadoodle! The arcane vocabulary doesn't help but somewhere I have a dictionary of terms which I downloaded and when I find it I will send you a PM with the location.

 

But I stand by my earlier comments. Help is here if you ask. If you post pictures, so much the better. We've all been there. The learning curve is steep, but for me I have gotten incredible satisfaction from accomplishing small tasks which I never would've thought I could achieve. This can be an all encompassing and extremely gratifying endeavor. Like many of the best things in life you the more you put into it, the more you will get out of it (in multiples). Hang in there.

 

Best,

John

John,

Your thoughts and comments on much appreciated. Forgive the frustrated ranting. I'm sure it will pass. I'll keep you posted.

Jazzchip

Jack, I appreciate that. I really do. For me this is like going to a foreign country where I don't know the language, the culture or the geography. I may not even know enough to know what to ask. I want to do this because I'm interested in the subject and because I believe one should enter areas where they notice discomfort. However, I didn't say I was going to enjoy it. I might do best to find a group to work with. A group who once they stopped laughing at what I did could direct my efforts, at least for the first project. I do thank you for your comments.

Jazzchip

Jazzchip,

 

Stick with your build.

 

The most important thing you can do right now is to start a build log. You will get access to hundreds of great people who are willing help out with the questions that come up. I started building model ships after being fairly accomplished at building plastic models (mostly large scall Navy planes). I was caught a bit off guard when I opened my first model ship box saw a bunch of full scale plans, some instructions, and what looked like a pile of sticks. It was a far cry from glue piece A to piece B.

 

Keep in mind that a great many models follow (at least some of) the practices of actual ship building and things may become more clear as you think them through. If you've not already done so, grab some introductory books. Frank Mastini's "Ship Modeling Simplified", Milton Roth's "Ship Modelling from Stem to Stern", and Ben Lankford's "How to Build First-Rate Ship Models from Kits" are ones I recommend and still refer to frequently.

 

But again, I can't over emphasize the importance of staring a build log. It would probably be a good idea for to read through as many logs as possible especially ones which cover ships similar to the one you are currently building.

 

Good luck.

 

Best,

John

John, thank you so much for your thoughts on the matter. One problem for me is that at the basic level where I currently reside, the questions become quite basic. It's not "how do you open the box?" but it's close. BlueJacket provides someone connected with the company who will answer questions but in truth it's a bit uncomfortable for me to have to ask extremely basic questions. Plus, I'm afraid at some point he'll stop taking my calls.

My frustration not withstanding, I really appreciate your wise advice. I'm not giving up but it will take a lot longer than I originally thought to complete this.

Jazzchip 

Maybe it's because I am so new and unskilled in this but I need very clear, step by step instructions in order to attempt to build anything. Those of you who can build the Queen Mary out of matchsticks won't understand this but for those of us with limited skills anything not explained or shown is a mystery that has to be solved. It's quite frustrating.

It would seem, especially for entry level kits, that instructions would be even more basic and explicit. I have a entry level piece and the instructions are clear but when they don't show what something should look like after a step is accomplished how does one know if it was done correctly? The few extra $ it might cost to make instructions more helpful seems a small price given the probability that the modeler, experiencing success, will build another model.

Jazzchip

which company provides the most complete and explicit instructions? NRG has 20K+ members. We ought to do a poll of the model manufacturers. It would reward those who are offering value and it would call attention to those companies not customer focused. 

I envy your skills taking on that model. Never having made anything before (does toast count) it looks very intimidating. I look forward to watching the progress.

Jazzchip

That's the kind of stuff that scares the hell out of me too. I fear that I'll be scratching my head with my wrist if I ever start working with power saws. Thanks for the good advice, Crowe. I hope this gets a few more people looking at ways to work safer.

Jazzchip

You can probably imagine the reaction when a tough construction worker is told he has to wear gloves.  I wore gloves most of the time at work and didn't get harassed about it but if one of the guys was caught wearing gloves, he caught a lot of flak.  After I had been in the trades about 20 years, personal safety was coming to the forefront.  Contractors were getting hefty insurance premiums and the insurance companies were requiring contractors to meet certain safety standards or get hit in the pocket book even harder.  That was in the mid-90's.

 

When I heard the guys razzing one of the guys wearing gloves I would ask, "What part of your body is most often injured at work,"  The answer was always "the hands."  But that answer would usually be followed with something like, "So what. It's part of the job."  One guy in our local was known as "Hammer Hands" because he was seen breaking up pallets with his bare hands.

 

Sometime in the early 2000s I started to see contractors issuing gloves and required the guys to wear them.  You should have heard the griping!  Then one contractor found Perfect Fit gloves and the guys absolutely fell in love. 

 

It turned out most guys hated gloves because they lost feel and dexterity.  Most gloves made at the time were at best hand covers and they didn't last very long.  Very little dexterity was lost with the Perfect Fit gloves and they lasted forever.  They also provided some cut protection.  I had been wearing soft leather gloves all those years but when I tried on my first Perfect Fit gloves, I was hooked.

 

But all good things must come to an end...  The company that makes them messed with perfection.  They increased the nitrile coating to the gloves and killed the feel and dexterity.  I haven't been able to find the original in years.   

I've known many guys who wouldn't wear ear protection or gloves as a sign of being macho. We're not the smartest of genders sometimes.

I'm going to have to check out our library to see how extensive their collection is. Thanks Canute

I found the writer's full name. It is William Hammond. There is also a interesting website, Historical Naval Fiction, that I just found and haven't had time to explore that could be valuable to those of us who enjoy reading these books.

Just started reading Parkinson, seems pretty good. Dewey Lambdin's books are pretty good, too. And I heartily recommend any of Stockwin's, Kent's, O'Brian's and Forester's books, too.

Thanks Canute. I haven't read Stockwin but I plan to and like you I have enjoyed the others you mention. There's one other whose last name is Hammond. I read one of his and enjoyed it very much. If I find his first name and the series he wrote, I'll pass it on.

Jazzchip

Have gotten my hands on  a few C. Northcote Parkinson's novels, just finising up Touch and Go. Have read all of the above noted authors, have not found any of those mentioned that I did not like.

jud

Shiloh thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to check out Parkinson. 

Nice looking and apparently useful new vice. But don't throw out, sell or store that old one. Get someone to, or you do it, make a portable stand that will hold the base of your old vice about bench height. Use a pipe or a 4 X 4 between the floor end of your stand and the top plate. That plate should hold the vice without any protrusions outside of the base of your vice. There is a surface on your old vice to use as a firm backing surface for setting rivets etc.. You may even find that planning your planks might be easer when using that free standing vice because of better access, same with sawing or sanding, heck if nothing else, you could use it as a short hat rack.

jud

Shiloh, that's a wonderful suggestion. I'll bet many of the people who read your reply are going to follow your advice. Thank you.

You will not regret obtaining the PanaVise.  I have several heads for it the 303 & 361 I use the most.

Thank you, mischief. Being a rookie, this is all new to me. So many people favor the panavise that I felt comfortable with the decision. You all were a big help in making the choice.

Bob,

Thank you,  I'm not familiar with Zyliss. I appreciate the input.

Jazzchip

Erik,

Thanks. I just read about Stockwin this week. Amazon ratings for his books are quite good. Thanks for the suggestion.

Jazzchip

Thank you, badger. I am not familiar with Seth Hunters. I knew I'd learn about new writers if I asked this question.

Jazzchip

your two cents is quite valuable. Lots of folks think that O'Brian invented nautical fiction. He's on everyone's top 10 list.

Thanks avsjerome.