Julie Mo
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This is an idea of what the finished keel would look like: -
Thanks, Keith. You confirmed what I was thinking - the fairing on the first planking has to be perfect. I haven't sanded through yet, but I won't be surprised if I do. I posted a question in the "Building, Framing..." section about making a laminated keel. In my mind's eye I am seeing the lambeam blending in with the mahogany planking like this: I'd have to shave off some of the plywood but if I could accomplish something like above, it would be worth it. This is just a dry run with three strips of mahogany:
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I am building my first model, a 1:35 version of a 1934 J-Boat. I'm not quite finished with the first planking on the first side. As I reached the point where the instructions say I need to move to 2mmx2mm strips to do the keel, I started wondering if I could instead make a mahogany wood laminate keel. The problem I have found with the 2x2 strips is you have to bevel the edges considerably to close up the joints. A solid laminated keel would work much better and probably look better. I got this idea from builds I have seen like this: What I'd have to do is plane or rasp off some of the existing plywood keel so I could insert the laminated keel. The easiest way would probably be after the final planking is done but then you can't insert pins into the hull to which you could band the laminate down. If the laminate is installed after the first planking, every plank on the 2nd planking would need to be trimmed to butt up against the laminated keel. But that's not a deal-breaker, it just takes a bit more time. Anyway, my 1st question: Is this a better way to go about creating the finished keel than what the directions say? Aesthetically, I think it would look pretty impressive but I don't know if it would look correct. My 2nd question is has anyone done something like this? If so, how did it turn out?
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But Gunther, I started this back when the west was still wild. I've been looking at the mahogany keel thing. I found a better piece that I will never use for anything else, so I am willing to sacrifice it for the good of the sea. I think my best bet is to rip thin strips and laminate a keel beam. This may sound crazy to you pros but this is the nutty stuff we newbies do. The model has become my nirvana. When the work around the house wears me out, the model is my Elysium. Yes, I am a warrior, now of the house variety. Since I didn't have time to start my keel project, I went for fairing the hull, at least what I have planked. I figure this gives me a window, of sorts, to how much plank I have left before I sand through. I started by laying pencil marks across the hull Then I sanded, when time allowed, until I got to a decent fairing. But it still needs some work. (I did cheat by applying mineral spirits to the wood.) Not sure if you can see it, but toward the bow there's a dip, Gotta fix that. What I found is while the balsa fill is a real benefit down the line, you have to be careful when fairing the hull pre-first planking. Balsa sands off faster than plywood. In the pinning process, many of the planks were depressed into the balsa that was over-sanded. So the first planks needed a fair amount of fairing. On the plus-side, if I sand through, the balsa is still there for support. The important thing is to make sure the hull is properly faired when the mahogany planks go down. The farther I get, the more I love it.
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I think if you are in a hurry to finish, then yes, it's very challenging. What I find is, it's more like the process makes you think. And I'm really enjoying that. I was just researching how wooden boats are built around the keel line. I'm at the point on the bow where I either need to start using the mm 2x2 strips as shown in the directions or I could make up a mahogany laminate and do something like this I could then butt up the mahogany planking to the new keel and shape it without fear of sanding through anything. I'm going to look into that but first I'll have to make a steam box. I have the steamer but I need a box small enough for the ship parts.
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I hope my snail's pace isn't putting anyone to sleep. Between the other irons I have in the fire and my inexperience with model building, I'm moving forward the best I can. It's looking like the planks are beginning to line up a bit better with the imaginary line I hope to get them to... Just aft of the rudder, I think what I'll do is create a piece, maybe mahogany, to cover the plywood and the ends of the planks... I'll have to do some experimenting after I shape and plank the rudder to see how it looks. On the bow, I'm thinking at some point I need to do something that will round it out a bit. Maybe the time to do that is during the 2nd planking. I've been setting a plane against the half of the hull that hasn't been planked and using that to create the finished edge.
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Thank you, Per! I've already glued up the mast and done some tapering. The instructions seem to show a circular mast but I read that the mast on the original Endeavour was aluminum. I would think that even in 1934, aluminum masts were more oval in shape, similar to the ones on the boats I've sailed on, only a lot bigger. So in tapering the mast, I am working toward that oval shape. I've been switching tools, seeing what works best, and so far I've used a spokeshave, violin plane, shoulder plane, and several sanding blocks made from MDF and PSA sandpaper. I'm finding it's like shaping a guitar neck - you just have to keep at it until you get it right.
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Here's how the "wrap" is working out: I broke some of the wood fibers at the tightest part of the wrap. I didn't soak it long enough. But what's more important to me is am seriously deviating from how this part of the planking would normally be done? The answer has to be "YES!" I can't imagine a shipyard attempting to do what I did here. What I would expect is they would have laminated a beam for the keel and butted the planks up to that. As far as being able to avoid tapering the planks, this is how it looks after having added only two rows after the last picture was taken: The bow in the planks, both when seen from the side or above, is becoming more pronounced, when compared to how planks running straight fore and aft on the keel would be. FWIW, I took a dry plank and laid it in vertical, to see how that orientation would look. It snapped before I could get it to sit flush against the hull. Bends this sharp obviously require steam bending.
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I hope I get the same results as you did, Keith. The measurements I took say I won't. I was toying with an idea where at some point soon I would change the orientation of the planking.I was thinking running up and down, but with a degree of angle, so that the planks run somewhat along the leading edge of the keel. I'd have to experiment to see how that would work out with the narrow planks running along the keel.
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Keith, So far I've been able to keep the clinking effect to an acceptable minimum. I don't think fairing afterward will create any sand-thru. What concerns me right now is the fact the distance from the plank I have pinned on the keel in the picture below is about 3.75" to the glued-on planking at the center and about 3.5" at either end of the glued-on planking. That's about 1-1/2 plank widths. I was looking at the photos on your Endeavour build and I didn't see any tapered planks but clearly I will have to do that soon if I don't want the planks to curve along the keel. Per, The balsa fill Keith recommended has made this phase of the project so much easier. And I believe the fairing of the hull will go much better than if I was gluing planking only to the frames. If I do another build, I will do the balsa fill again. As an experiment, I soaked the tip of one plank in hot water to make it more pliable and pinned it over a sharp edge: The sharp edge comes into play for the first time. All the other planks have been laid over more gradually curving surfaces. I'm going to let it dry and them see how it looks before gluing it. But I was wondering, should that sharp edge exist? Or should I file it down?
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Still plodding along... I've been trying to make a point of laying more than a couple of plank rows per day. I really love the way this is looking and that motivates me. But with all that's on my plate, I'm happy with whatever I can accomplish. This was taken yesterday afternoon. I think I added two or three more rows since then. I was up at 5:00 AM laying the next row. I was too tired to do anything else. And I think I laid 2-4 more rows by the time I took this picture. What I find really cool is it feels like I'm actually building this magnificent yacht. That's priceless. It looks like I'm staying true to the centerline. What I'm learning here is to cut the planks perpendicular to the centerline of the hull. I hope I said that correctly. If not, feel free to correct me. Learning is better than remaining uneducated and clueless. In making that cut perpendicular, the planks on the other side can butt up tight. That's the plan. Hope it pans out. I started trimming at the bow sort of willy-nilly but after several rows of planking were laid, I turned to using a violin plane to do the final rough trimming. I trimmed the planks primarily to so the rubber bands didn't curl the plank over the edge and cause lifting against the hull. Don't know of that's a proper method, but it seems to work for now. The primary planking is allowing me to learn and experiment as I go without fear of making irreparable errors.
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Thanks, Keith. I'm reminded of being back in school, learning a new subject, and not even knowing enough to ask an intelligent question. So any feedback, complimentary or critical, is appreciated. It's good to know you're on the right track but it's even better to know when you're going astray. First thing I did this morning was lay another row. I've got to do better than a couple of rows a day if I want to finish this in my lifetime. I'm not quite dead center on the cut. The larger gap in the planks is most likely due to dried glue I missed scraping off. Before laying the next row I have been checking to make sure there is no glue slop that might keep the planks from butting up tight. But the bevel would have helped. This tells me I need to take more time on the final planking or I will not be a happy camper. The bottom planks have had some fairing done to them but the top ones have not. Again, putting on a bevel to the edge would have made this job look much nicer. For some reason, seeing the bow form gets the sailing juices flowing. I've been planing off the excess every couple of rows to see how it's shaping up. This keeps me going. When I started sailing back in the early 70s, I first learned about the J-Boats. That pointed bow slicing through the waves had me right there, on one of those gorgeous boats, sailing a behemoth. If anyone was ever foolish enough to let me step aboard a J-Boat, they would have to pry me off with a very large oar.
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Keith, I took a look at your present build, every page, every picture. Awesome work! I needed the fix. The first planking is going pretty slowly. I've only been able to lay a row or two a day. We're so close to finishing the master bedroom and I am so tired of sleeping on a futon, the model build only gets my attention when I'm too tired to work on the house. I still feel guilty for this taking so long, though. What I started doing was putting a bevel on the edge of the planking so it would butt up tight to the one already laid. When I did that, I could eliminate any gaps in the seam. But I worried I might get into the width of the planking. By the time the planks reached the stern, there was some pretty intense twist. I did everything I could to get the planks to sit flush. The stern cut I eyeballed because I couldn't find anywhere in the directions any dimensions or sketches. This is as far as I am now. I've toyed with using a violin plane to do the fairing. I think I'll wait until all the planking is done until I start getting serious about that.
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Thanks for suggesting I take a look at this build to help me with mine, Keith. I ended up going through every page and every photograph. You have the patience of a saint and skills to match! I was quickly reminded I am still in kindergarten. Thank you so much for sharing and for bailing me out time and again. Julie
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Thank you, once again, Keith! The sanding jig looks like the way to go. I will also have to start from the deck, like you did, and work my way down. I first need to find the push pins I bought. Or buy some new ones. Rubber bands don't seem to work so well in keeping the hull planks in place.
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I started on the keel bulb tonight and immediately realized the instructions over simplify the installation. The bevel required to get the edges of the keep strips to butt up properly is substantial. You're working with 2x2 mm strips of wood and I don't have a Honey I Shrunk The Kids machine so I can see what I'm doing. I beveled the first two strips, on either side of the centerboard, first starting with an inlay thickness gauge then finishing off with a violin maker's plane. Here's what it looked like: The rubber band is applying pressure according to the shape of the keel. The top view shows the problem more clearly. Pretty sad... Maybe this is acceptable, I don't know. If I had no help or input on this, I would consider it completely unacceptable. Am I being too picky? Or do I just need to buckle down and get the bevel right?
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Hi Keith, I was working on the bulb of the keel tonight, laying the first strips on either side of the centerboard. I immediately realized those keel strips required some serious beveling if you want them to be flush. I didn't sand but rather started off using an inlay thicknessing gauge. It is beveled at the top of the blade, so I ran the first strip through but when I went to fit it, I found the bevel wasn't severe enough. Next, I took out a violin maker's plane and ran the strip through that, while holding the plane in my hand, and got a more even thickness but this was still arduous. During this process I realized I needed to also be aware of reducing the "exposed" part of the strip. All on these tiny little strips of wood. Whew! So, how did you accomplish sanding the bevel in the bulb strips, keep the thickness consistent and make the bevel correct?
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The other day I had a chance to work on the mast a bit. I glued up all the pieces and then took a block plane to it to first straighten it and then shape it. It wasn't the job I thought it would be. I was able to create a taper fairly well but I don't know how to scale it is right now. The shape still isn't right (I'm trying to make it oval like most aluminum masts are today) and I think I still can shave some more off without violating the scale. Anyone know where I might be able to find approximate top and bottom dimensions for a mast like this?
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I've had visions of creating a stand that gives the appearance of the boat heeling in weather. I don't think that will happen. I may just go back to the original idea of creating the boat being docked just after a race. Or maybe I'll sell it to the local yacht club.
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As I am plodding along... I was trying to find out just how big this boat may be. So I banded the pieces of the mast together and clamped the boom in place. Where on earth can this behemoth go? We only have 8' ceilings! OK Carry on...
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Thank you, Keith, for both the instructions and the welcome back. I took a break from the house remodel and once I got my hands back on the model, it felt good. I found out I still had the desire to dive back in. I feared being away so long that I might have lost interest. I didn't. Thanks again for the help!
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Keith, please forgive me if I have already asked this question but today I got back to my build and immediately knew I needed to come to your build to refresh my memory. And now my dumb question: Did you have the deck in place when you began planking at the deck level? (If you answered this in your post, I missed it. I'm working on 3 hours of sleep right now...) The reason I ask is I know my deck is not perfectly faired, symmetrically. One side has a slight dip on the aft starboard section. So I was thinking if I butt the planking up to the plywood deck, maybe I can make up for (or hide) that asymmetry.
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I'm in the same boat, so to speak. I haven't touched my model since we moved in December. All my time has been spent working on the house. And I have a long way to go... And your build is BEAUTIFUL!!!
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