Ray1981

Ray, add some single edge razor blades, a good pair of scissors an sand paper. Plus a great deal of patience.

Hi Ray,
 
I have seen many great wooden ship models built with just simple hand tools. Some of the fancy tools make certain jobs easier but the hand tools do just fine. I mostly use hobby knives, razor saw, measuring tools and clamps. There are a few other tools that you can get as you go. One of the best tools is this forum. 

Hi Forum members,
 
At the moment im making plastic period kits and enjoy it a lot. But I would realy like to make wooden kits I love period ships. But I dont have more expierence with wood as the little I did when I went to high school some 20 years ago. I dont have such fancy tools as i see passing by here on the forum. What would be needed to make a kit like in the link below?
 
http://www.shipwrightshop.com/shop/contents/en-uk/p14.html
 
Would i need a huge arsenal of specific tools and knowledge on wood working? It is marked as an serious starter kit.
 
I have all time because my current build is not even close to be finished but soon Ill be in the Netherlands and can order this easy and more cheap as in Brazil so I thought maybe to buy this kit. If it would be possible for me to make.
 
So maybe some people here have some advise to start with the wooden kits.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Grtz Ray

I am about to start rigging my first model - an 1815 1/50 scale US Revenue Cutter.
 
This for me is the scariest part so far. I read posts here and they might as well be in Latin (which I did at school 45 years ago and even then wasn't any good). As well getting each line, knot, and fitting right, they also need to be in the correct order.
 
For help I have:
 
This site and the people on it :) :).
A handful of books:
A Visual Encyclopedia of Nautical Terms Under Sail
Ship Modelling Simplified
Steel's The Art of Rigging 2nd Edition
Petersson's "Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft" (on order)
The AL kit plans (which I believe are simplified)
 
 
One of the reasons I originally chose this model all those years ago was the rigging was not too complicated. However "not too complicated" does not mean easy.
 
The only real expertise I have is in software development. Now I can't write a program that will rig the model for me but I'm thinking that I can still get some organizational help.
 
I am planning to write a simple database program for me to keep track of the details and help me stay organized.
 
These are the data I'm planning to store for each line:
Name
Starting point (including picture(s))
Ending point (including picture(s)) 
Running/Standing
Line size
Fittings (types [blocks, hooks, etc] + sizes)
Notes
Once the data is entered I would then be able to move the items around in a list so I can get the right order and keep track of progress.
 
So what does anyone think?
 
Thanks,
Richard

Great thread some nice recommendations here I just ordered 2 of them.
 
18th century rigs and rigging
 
historic ship models
 
I hope those will help me with my Le Glorieux when starting with rigging. Anyhow it is pretty fun stuff to read so i think i will going to enjoy them.

This is a prime example of why I love MSW. A great community with a wealth of knowledge that the members are willing to share with each other regardless of experience. My wish list on Amazon seems to grow longer with every visit.
 
I have purchased a couple of books already to help better understand ship rigging, "The Art of Rigging" by George Biddlecombe and "The Rigging of Ships: in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast, 1600-1720" by R.C. Anderson which deal specifically with the time period of my build, la Couronne. I have found both books to be useful so far though I will also check out some of the other suggestions that have been posted. I have rarely found one book with everything in it I need and often times information has changed as the years have gone by.
   

Many thanks to all of you.
Some wonderful and very helpful comments.
 
Peter, your list is very useful. Yes, I have noted the Anatomy of the Ship - I believe there is one of the Granado which will come in handy for my next build anyway. It was going on my Chrismas list - perhaps I might add it on the 2015 Christmas List and get it now as "someone forgot"!!!
 
RichardG, maybe I should write such a book then - one I understand the subject myself!!
I also like your spreadsheet idea for future reference. As you will see below, I have created a document that lists the information which is a start! Here's an extract:
 
Belay   Side                                Description                                                          Fixed?
 
b1        Bow Rack                        Outer Jib Stay
b2        Bow Rack                        Schooner Stay
b3        Main Mast                        Main Topgallant Stay
b4        Forebitts crosspiece         Foregaff topping lift
b5        Port                                 Foregaff Blocks
b5        Starboard 
                                                                                               
 
Jersey City Frankie - I agree with the idea of drawings - I've actually started to do that.
 
Firstly, I have made a drawing of the bowsprit so that I understand the three foresails on my ship (PIckle).
 

 
I have also taken copies of my plans showing the Belay points. These are only listed as e.g. B1, B12 etc. so I have researched my instruction book so that I have been able to label each point with the correct name - that has helped a great deal. As I suggested in my log, I think it would help of the manufacturer added a table to those belay and rigging plans that actually lists the Belay points, where the rope comes from and what it actually is. I have created a document that lists the above information which is a shown above!
 
I have just made a drawing of the main and topsail - which is where all the problems start!!
 
...... and the reason for it all? Because I am wishing to add sails to my Pickle and therefore need to understand all the figging so that I can work out what additional rigging and belay points I will need - so that I can add them while I can still access the deck BEFORE I  clutter the deck with Deck furniture and masts etc.......
 
Thanks for your help.
 
John
 

There is one book that I know of that explains almost every part of the ship and rig.  Falconer's New Universal Dictionary of the Marine.  My copy is a reprint of the 1815 edition.
 
That being said, learning the ropes just takes time and practice.  Soon enough you will no longer be a landsman and you can earn your keep as an able bodied or ordinary sailor. Diligence, attention to detail, and hard experience will merit an assignment as a tops man in no time.  Maybe even a promotion to petty officer.
 
Aye lad, that be the life of a sailor!!

John,
 
I would love a book like that.
 
I am getting back to the rigging of my cutter after a long and somewhat unintended break.The problem is I read something, mostly understand it, but then can't remember it later. I'm using some home-grown software (a glorified notebook) to try and help me to be organized (see http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10451-first-time-rigging-being-organized/#entry313428).  
 
I was never any good at foreign languages at school either. 
 
Richard.

Hi John
 
From a complete landlubber to somebody who lives at least a lot nearer to a coastline: I understand you very well. But I'm afraid that you have to learn the ropes a bit.
However it's made easier by the fact that it's actually a kind of a matrix:
 
- you have the masts: fore, main mizzen
- you have the floors:  ground floor, topmast, topgallant mast, royal
- you have sails: - square sails with top(head), sides(leach) and underside(foot)
                        - fore-and-aft sails with uppermost corner(peak), head, upper corner on mast(throat), mast side(luff), lower corner on mast(tack), foot, lower aft corner(clew) and aft side(leech)
- you have the yards: basically named as the sails
 
On each yard and each sail you have the same kind of lines.
- yards: lifts to hold them up, braces to turn them, truss and sling to fix them
- square sails: sheets to hold the lower corners(clews), clew lines to pull the clews up, bowlines to pull the sides of the sail forward, reef tackles to lift the sail towards the yard for reefing
- fore and aft sails: vangs to fix the gaff(replaces the yard), brails to pull the sail towards gaff and yard
 
Of course there are about a zillion more but those above should cover the most important. And if you know one rig, you know them all. I often find the books of the 'Anatomy of the Ship' series quite helpful. If you find one of a vessel which is close to the one you are building (perhaps Alert or Granado) it may help to see how those lines work together on a specific ship.
 
And if I'm completely desperate I find some solace in Patrick O'Brian's Stephen Maturin and his never ending struggle with the incomprehensible language of the sailors.

 
Cheers
peter
 
 
PS
Yes, Wolfram zu Mondfelds book is a gem. But I have the German original and therefore the happiness to struggle with those expressions in two different languages!

I'm going to suggest zu Mondfeld's Historic Ship Models.  There's a lot of good basic information in it including rigging.  And it's usually very reasonably priced online.  

Hi John;
 
There are at least two books,  '18th century rigs & rigging' by Karl Heinz Marquardt,  and 'The masting and rigging of English ships of war' by James Lees (which I can see that you have borrowed from the library [must be a good one,  to hold such titles] but perhaps not yet read)  which deal with the matter stage by stage.  They start with the masts and associated rigging,  then the yards and associated rigging,  and then the sails and associated rigging.  They finish with sections on different types of blocks,  and belaying. 
 
Neither of them has a glossary,  unfortunately,  which would be helpful for you;  but you will read about shrouds and stays in association with the masts,  and braces,  lifts and halliards in association with the yards;  then sheets,  tacks and buntlines in association with the sails.  By the time you have read Lees' book,  you should have a thorough knowledge of the basics.  Deeper knowledge can only come from re-reading,  drawing rigging diagrams,  and from rigging models.
 
Lennarth Peterson's book,  by the way,  despite its title,  only deals with the rigging of one particular ship at one particular period.  So whilst it is very good for a model of this type,  for earlier or larger vessels,  it is a somewhat limited source.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Hi all,
 
I have some fantastic books that tell me all about fixed and running rigging and give me lots of detailed information about every single rope. block, beley line that is needed.
 
What a pity that I almost don't understand a word!!!
 
Every book that I have seen is written in a technical manner and, although I have even tried to understand things through works such as The Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship by the Historic Naval Ships Association, it's is really hard work.
 
Does anyone know if a simplified version that actually explains all the terms used in one go?
 
So, for example, if I wanted to know all about what 'ropes', blocks and beley points are used for each sail where could I look?
 
Before anyone suggests, I do have Lennarth Petersson's Rigging Period Ship Models which does show the lines and beley points, but it is still very difficult to understand what all the shown items are actually for - e.g. this is a line that is used to hoist / set / take down a sail.......
 
Any ideas anyone?
 
Many thanks.
 
 

my model i am from bang kok thai land

Hi Folks,
 
I was thinking when I have painted the hull of my kit in copper and apply a matt finish I could weathering it with Humbrol Chrome oxide. This has a greenish color. I could even use a little yellow the sand weathering power to soften the green a little.
 
I would like to experiment a little with those weathering powders now I got them at home waiting for me.
 
Anybody has some thoughts about that?
 
http://www.humbrol.com/us-en/shop/weathering/weathering-powders.html
 
Grtz Ray

Great explanation on how to make the lower deadeyes. I saw mostly lower deadeyes with hooks but I think the French did it different (im not sure about that) so I was looking on how to make them with rings.
 
Wonderfull!

Ahhh thats the name.........I told my wife I ordered as well a cissor which I could use to cut around the corner LOL.

This is kind of hard to quantify as each manufacturer seems to have it's own system on "rating".    Generally, the more guns, the more masts, and the more decorations (aka fiddly bits), then the higher rated it should be.  

Hey guys,
 
I browse these days a lot of online shops, especially the ones from kit selection pdf here and notice that most of the kits are marked as difficulty level 2 or 3 out of 5.
 
So I was wondering is there any kit that is ranked at 4 or even 5 out of 5? I'm curios to see how it looks like, what's in the box, etc.
 
Because for me as a beginner even the ones rated at 3 looks pretty hard (I'm working on level 2 right now - Corsair by OcCre). Or the people here with more models through their hands - what do you consider the hardest kit?
 
I hope it's not duplicate topic since I didn't found anything like that in the search

Great explanation on how to make the lower deadeyes. I saw mostly lower deadeyes with hooks but I think the French did it different (im not sure about that) so I was looking on how to make them with rings.
 
Wonderfull!

Back to the deadeyes and chains.
 
First up was creating a test piece to determine the look and fit of the channel deadeye strops and to use that to see how much material to cut out of the channels to slide the strops into.  The strops are made from 20 guage steel wire, which seems to fit the groove of Syrens 6mm deadeyes nicely.

Note:  The deadeye on the right is an upper deadeye.  I filled in the groove on the left hole.  This will be the hole on the inside face that the mathew walker knot on the end of the laniard bears against.

 
For anyone who chooses to go this route...caution!!  The 20 guage steel wire is relatively hard to bend around the deadeyes and fills the groove completely. Any sideways torque when bending the wire WILL split apart the deadeye.  Although this ability to split the deadeye face off came in handy later when I had a couple of solder joints break!
 
After the concept piece was done I pulled it apart to measure the length of wire for the strop and went into production mode.  The wire was cut, the ends cleaned up and the strop was formed into a wide loop (big enough to fit the deadeye) and silver soldered closed.  Then the pieces were blackened in a bath of Blacken-it.  The strops were then bent into final shape around the deadeyes.

 
Appropriate size slots were cut into the channels to fit the strops.

 
The stropped deadeyes were offered up to the channel and a line was run from the main masthead to determine the proper angles to bend the strops to.
More caution here.  My original thought was to hide the solder joint in the channel slot.  Bad idea.  This is where the bending occurs to get the strops pointing in the right direction.  I should have planned it better so that the solder joint fell in the lower straight portion of the deadeye strop.  The solder joints are barely visible anyway.  I had a few joints open up on me and being at the bending point right beneath the deadeye the only way to re-do the solder joint was to pop the face off the deadeye, remove it, re-solder the joint and then re-assemble the deadeye in the strop.

 
The chains were made up and blackened in the same manner using 24 guage wire.  The deadeye strops were inserted into the chain loops before soldering closed.  I also made up some backing links from the 24 guage wire.  These are the same style of elongated loops but with the center portion squeezed together and then the whole thing is bent so the the end loops are offset in order to fit from the wale to the hull planking below the wale.

The sharp eyed of you will note that some of the deadeyes are not set straight in the strops.  The ones for the aftermost shrouds have a slight angle to accomodate the angle of the shroud.  The pins in the above photo are bending jigs set for the size of the chains and the backing links.
 

 
The eyebolts in the hull were prized open, a backing link was put on each one, and then the chain/deadeye assembly.  The deadeye strop was then swung up into place in the slot in the channel.  A little flat black touch up paint was used to cover up some spots were the blacking was rubbed off with the pliers.

 
Still to come... filling the holes cut into the edge of the channels and pinning the lower loops of the backing links to the hull.
 
See you next time.
 
Regards,

The one rigging tool I find indispensable is the ear polypus forceps.  (Google it to see what they look like.)  Nothing can reach inside the shrouds and grab a line better..

Hi Robbe33
 
Maybe this site will help you. You can even upload a picture and it tells you which color from whcih brand you could use you can also filter on brand.
 
http://scalemodeldb.com/paint
 
I have used Revell enamel but I started now to use MM Acryll I think this is very good paint indeed.
 
Good luck
 
all the best 
 
Ray

Hi all here is the next update on this 

 

 

 

 
Baring in mind these are almost Identical scales (the thermop is 1/96 and the soliel is 1/100) I still cant believe how much heavier and bulkier and cumbersom the soliel was (I mean I know she had to be able to withstand cannon fire and such) but she must have been sooooooo slooooowwwww 

 

Hi all here is tonight update may I first say anyone contemplating this ship, please read the rigging instructions alongside the build instructions and dont leave them till the end, as you can plainly see I have not done that and still I've made things extremely awkward for myself, there is some rigging from the main mast to the four iron rings in the deck which now I have the belaying pin racks and the foremast shrouds in place will be extremely difficult to attatch.
anyway here is where I'm at now.