aliluke

I agree with Eamonn and John except my references suggest that only the very largest cannons had a single/double block rig. Smaller cannons would have single/single rigs. In that rig the rope is seized to the single block at the bulwark taken through the sheave of the block at the carriage and then taken through the sheave of the block at the bulwark and the running end is then frapped to the line or coiled at the deck (Blue Ensign's log of Pegasus shows a frapped rig). That said the double/single block rig will look the part too and is what I did on my AVS in the absence of my latest references.

Hi Mike

Hold back that hammer! You have stuffed up the first planking - apologies for saying so - but it doesn't matter at all. Fill out the planking as best you can and then fill it to buggery to get a smooth hull. I think leaving off the planking at the bow - which your instructions must suggest - is a mistake. Taking the planks through to the stem, as hard as it is, tells you how they should run. I don't calculate planking at all. No maths, no science (one day I'll do better than this...). The simple mantra when you get to the second layer is "It must flow upwards". As soon as the planks run horizontal or turn down you are in trouble. So for the second layer taper the planks for the stem and stern from way back on the hull until they flow upwards. Do this straight away, that is, only one - the first plank - isn't tapered. Every single plank after that is. As long as the planks follow this flow - upwards - you can put aside the maths. That said, Bounty is a tough hull with such a bluff bow and you'll probably need some joggle planks at the stem and stealers at the stern to keep that upward flow. Also don't feel you have to run the planks the full length of the hull. Split them up so that you manage them.

Put away the hammer! Make it flow upwards every time and you'll be all right.

Your cannon rig is looking good Ollie. The tackles are especially sharp. Good stuff.

Hi Ollie

A bit hard to understand your question...The breaching ropes (recoil ropes) go through an eye and a ringbolt on the side of the cannon and then are seized to the same - eye and ringbolt - on the bulwarks. Depending on the navy and era, the breachng rope can be wrapped around  or spliced about the cascabel,  wrapped as you show, or passed through the gun carriage or passed through an eye above the cascabel. I'd go with the rig you have - a simple wrap around the cascabel as in your picture of the lower cannon (the upper cannon rig does not have any historical correctness - it is wrong), then through the ringbolts on the side of the carriage and then seized or tied to ringbolts on eyebolts on the bulwarks.If the cannon is "run out" in your composition make sure the breaching rope has some length - a light drape - to reflect the slack needed for the recoil. Cannons are fun!

Superb outcome and great technique Bob. I will try it.

Congratulations Frank. That is a very fine rendition and the addition of crew and sails works perfectly with your aging. More a diorama than just a simple model. Stunning stuff.

Your planking work looks great Tim. I might just have to suck up the shipping costs and get this kit. I love its lines.

I'm with Keith

That looks really sleek and you could almost read the below waterline area as copper. The contrast shows her lines beautifully. Go for it as is, is what I'd say!

Fabulous work Timmo - did I say definitive in a previous post? Well that is what it is.

It is strange how we get into parts of this hobby and then can't wait for them to end - "I'll be glad when this lot is finished". A bit like climbing hills (which I did in the weekend - the Tongariro Crossing). Can't wait to get over the tedium of one part of the climb but when you do, the view is so good you want to climb higher. Keep it up, I like the views from your peaks.

Looking good to me Ollie in all regards. Are those bands paper or copper? If the former they sure look like iron work to me and that is all that matters. Nice stuff on the anchor rig there too - a lesson learned for me about that rig for future reference.

Cheers

Alistair

Hi Jesse

You are probably tiring of this discussion...Given how good the planking on your hull is, perhaps paint the upper works to a masked waterline and have a look at a natural hull below. If it doesn't feel right you can paint or copper below the line. If you copper I can recommend Amati plates which you can get from Cornwall Models (amongst other sources). Many here say these are the most accurate plates. If you paint, may be head to a dark red/brown colour to pick up on your research and provide a contrast. I definitely wouldn't do copper paint over such a large surface - it is really only manageable for small pieces IMHO. I'll leave my thoughts there and look forward to seeing your progress. (Also I hope your current health episode cools down soon).

Hi Rod

Wow! That is one seriously cool thing and beautifully made. Congratulations!

Cheers

Alistair

Hi Jesse

I remember a build by Pete Jaquith? of Newsboy. It strikes me as being very similar to Scottish Maid but was a little later - 1854 by my quick web search - Goggle "Newsboy ship". It was also built in the USA not Scotland but did serve in the North Atlantic. I can't quite remember Pete's colour scheme but seem to recall a pale blue or white on the inner bulwarks and cap rails and a deep blue or black on the outer works but with a contrasting below waterline finish. My quick web search showed many versions coppered and this one (attached) with red lower works. If you look at my Fly log you can see the subtle difference between the deep blue on the counter and the jet black - Polly Scale Engine Black - on the wales. I still reckon you should go for more contrast than that and since no one seems to know for sure you can't be accused of historical inaccuracy whatever you do! 

Cheers

Alistair

Thanks Jay

Harold's little touch with water is intriguing. Whenever I look at the plans of Fly - or other ships for that matter - I realise how much of the hull was below water and how sleek they would look above water. The Swan sloops didn't have much freeboard and when you add in the mast height they, like Pelican, must have been very elegant on the sea. Hahn's attempt to capture that is clever but a bit awkward too. I wonder aside from a diorama and a waterline model how it can be done? Maybe a simple sheet of glass or Perspex at the waterline through the whole area of a display case?

You are too kind with your praise - your Constitution and all your tips are a master class! And now you build from scratch. I like your ideas for presentation. It is good to think beyond a frozen thing and something in realistic activity. I'm not quite up for that yet.

Best

Alistair

Hey Jesse

Hang tough. Good days, bad days - relish the good, manage the bad - you know what I mean. Take care and "model" yourself of out the bad'uns if you can.

Paint colours. I'd definitely look for some contrast below the waterline. If not accurate it at least will give the ship its due in terms of emphasising the sleek lines. If it is all black you'll loose those lines. Perhaps copper but maybe a deep red or just natural wood? I'd also cut the black with a little blue to get a very deep ultramarine colour. It is more "lively" and then you can contrast the cap rails in jet black. I did this colour on the counters on my Fly and though it is hard to see in the photos it is a nice offset to jet black. I like the figurehead in white.

Cheers

Alistair

Jay

Just came across this. Great work and an ambitious step up from the world of kits that I'm sure - can already see - you'll handle with aplomb.

Do you have a wider picture or profiles of Pelican? It'd be nice to see where you are heading.

Those barrels have very heavy bands but your improvements are well worth it. It maybe worth looking at some other alternatives e.g. Syren Ship Models?

Cheers

Alistair

Hi Ollie

I'd substitute that copper for thick card - manila folder and paint it black with a Sharpie pen or similar. Reason being copper will crinkle like hell and thick paper will obey your commands - or the commands of the glue. Guess I hate copper right now. But tight straps are much more easily rendered in manila folder paper than in metal. No one will notice the difference in my opinion except for the fact that the paper will look better unless you are a master of bending copper.

Your masts look great by the way - you are certainly quick but with no lack of high quality work.

Cheers

Alistair

That looks great Ken - a fantastic unpainted result.

Cheers

Alistair

Hi David

That looks really good. Fantastic work. Any chance of some zoom outs so we can get the bigger picture? It certainly seems like it would be worth seeing!

Cheers

Alistair

Hi Bob

That is very clever work by you. Blue Ensign is the gospel and I would certainly not challenge his opinion. The 8mm does look better to my eye but I would not die in ditch over the scale.

In terms of calligraphy it is more interesting. The "A" needs to be slightly closer to the "N" and the "A" slightly closer to the "R". I'm completely anal about this stuff but it is thinking about the space in between letters. Putting "FLY" on my counter is going to be a trick. The "Y" needs to be slightly closer to the "L" than it is typed here...Will send you a PM with another thought.

Cheers

Alistair

Your post beat mine. That looks like a very complex layout. Perhaps simplify with overlaps? I'm sure it is right but it just looks very difficult to do. Coppering isn't easy as I have found and just getting the hull coated is enough. Perhaps go for the two top lines of copper and then dress up from the keel? Or do a gore line and lay up from that? In any case I still reckon go from the keel up and you can overlap the plates as you need to.

Not much help I'm afraid, others may offer better.

Cheers

Alistair

I haven't a clue about the right height for the waterline for Cutty Sark. Overall your build looks amazing - very crisp and clean.

For the plating I suggest working from the keel upwards. That way if you do need to overlap the plates the lap will be on the upper side of the run. I found overlapping and avoiding stealers gave me the result I wanted. That said my hull is much more curved than Cutty Sark.

Cheers

Alistair

Sorry Mike I may have named it wrong. It is exactly the same tool that Dominic showed in post #146 in your log. Maybe a plank crimper or bender is the right word -  I didn't mean to confuse. The guy I got it from called it a "nipper" and the name has stuck with me even though I haven't touched it for years.

For snipping brass or other bits - very sharp scissors or micro clippers. I use high quality stainless steel nail scissors for fine brass bits and bolts. They will eat anything and their small size makes the operation more exact. Wood or brass at 2 x 2 mm would be a stretch though - that needs a saw or a guillotine cutter, for wood that is, in my opinion.

Cheers

Alistair

Hi Bob

This is what I got http://www.letraset.com/products/107-Times-New-Roman It is 5mm high Times New Roman in gold. It arrived within a week from the UK but I think the postage was more than the cost - still pretty cheap though. I think there are at least 3 "V"'s in the set. Several here use this - Blue Ensign and, I think, a Sherbourne build as well. I have yet to try it but will be doing so soon as it needs to go on before the trims to the upper counter.

Bon chance

Alistair

Hi Mike

Just came across your log from Hamilton's thread about the Occre vs AL Bounty. You are doing a great job.

As for planking. I use the technique that Bindy linked you to. I soak the planks for a good few hours in very hot water and then clamp them around a china cup. I make the bend much greater than is needed. I then let them dry in the sun. I used to use a plank nipper but find it crushes and distorts the wood. The clamping system over a suitable former - a cup works fine - is much more kind to the wood and, if well soaked, I never get any snapping. My nipper is gathering dust and I'd argue that it is a crude tool that you don't need.

Cheers

Alistair