garyshipwright

Hello every one. I have a question and hope that you good folk's can help shed some light on this. I am trying to find this print of the Queen of 1769 in Arnold and Henry Kriegstein newest book which is a joy to read and looking at the model's in his book, Historic Ship Models of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries in the Kriegstein Collection. The photo is on page  245 of the Queen of 1769, a second rate which says that it is draft shown to King George 3rd in 1773. I have contacted the NMM for a number and maybe getting a copy but with out the plan number it a little on the hard side.  I did go through the plan site that Allan showed us but no Queen of 1769. I also have been looking through the NMM site for it but so far nothing. I also sent a email about it to seaforth publishing but nothing back from them yet. Any help would be great and most helpful. Thanks guys. Look forward in hearing from you. Gary

Thanks Druxey. Well I will give Pen and Sword Books  a try. Thank guys. Gary

Thanks Druxey. Well I will give Pen and Sword Books  a try. Thank guys. Gary

Thanks Druxey. Well I will give Pen and Sword Books  a try. Thank guys. Gary

Thank's Druxey I have already done that, just have not heard any thing back. Hi Siggi  your right sir they do have plans but as you said not this one and thank you. Hi Bruce. am not sure but can you let me know how I go about finding that out, picture credit that is.  Thanks again guys.  Gary

Hello every one. I have a question and hope that you good folk's can help shed some light on this. I am trying to find this print of the Queen of 1769 in Arnold and Henry Kriegstein newest book which is a joy to read and looking at the model's in his book, Historic Ship Models of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries in the Kriegstein Collection. The photo is on page  245 of the Queen of 1769, a second rate which says that it is draft shown to King George 3rd in 1773. I have contacted the NMM for a number and maybe getting a copy but with out the plan number it a little on the hard side.  I did go through the plan site that Allan showed us but no Queen of 1769. I also have been looking through the NMM site for it but so far nothing. I also sent a email about it to seaforth publishing but nothing back from them yet. Any help would be great and most helpful. Thanks guys. Look forward in hearing from you. Gary

Thanks guys. If feels good and as you said there just doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day to get every thing done. But I am really enjoying my self.  Any way here is a couple of photos of the shop and addition to it. I added it in where do you do yours.  

Hi Alan.  Forgive me sir, wasn't sure what Travis was saying so I answered him. In the mean time good sir I have become retired and have spent the last year in adding a extensin and gas heat to the shop. I have done a little work on Montagu so am really looking fwd to spending a lot more time on her. Life sometimes just gets in the way. Wish it was better but am happy with it. Gary

Very well put good sir,

Hi Shipman. You are right and time is short but one can think of it like this. When you build your ships you probably get a lot of enjoyment out of it, just like myself and others. Building the inside I get just has much enjoyment as building the out side even through we won't see it, that is unless you take photo's of them.  A lot of folks like you self also don't like building the inside, but that's ok because there is also a lot of folks like to build the inside.  It like building a 32 pounder on the gun deck. It takes awhile and building a cannon with a lot of detail just to be hidden by the upper deck,  will not be seen so why build them. Guess because I like building them and installing as much detail as my skill will let me.  They are just going to be hidden any way and all you will see is the barrel of the cannon. But I still get enjoyment out of building them and adding the detail to them hidden or not. I build them because of the sheer enjoyment that one get's from building a ship. You say that you will never understand the dubious ideal that considerable work on what will be entirely invisible details has any merit what so ever.  Well  a lot of folks like building the inside knowing that one day it will be covered up. The question is who's merit???? If you get merit out of you building then you must be enjoying it much as I do, making the parts and pieces that go in to it. Of course you may never understand it unless you do it. Which is your chose but getting the enjoyment out of your build is the most important thing.  Here is a photo of the magazine that one can not see now in her hold but can be seen with a photo, no pun intended good sir.

Thank's Druxey I have already done that, just have not heard any thing back. Hi Siggi  your right sir they do have plans but as you said not this one and thank you. Hi Bruce. am not sure but can you let me know how I go about finding that out, picture credit that is.  Thanks again guys.  Gary

@jdbondy
@Dziadeczek
Hello,
Thank you for the positive reaction to my post.
Thanks also to all the others for the LIKES.
 
Hello Thoma,
the best way to answer your question is to show you this picture.

I hope that I have answered your question in an understandable way.
 

@albert
@mbp521
Hello,
thanks for your nice comments, and all the others for the many LIKES.
 
Continuation: Ratlines for the fore topmast shrouds - Enfléchures 
In the meantime, I have started working on the port side ratlines (ø 0.25 mm) of the fore topmast shrouds. These are already about three quarters made, as can be seen in the following pictures.

 

      
On the last picture I show again how the simplified splice for binding the ratlines to the outer shrouds is made step by step. For lifting and inserting the end of the rope twice between the strands, I use an appropriately prepared cannula, as already reported and shown.

 
The end of the chapter -ratlines- is within reach.
To be continued ...
 

Hi Shipman. You are right and time is short but one can think of it like this. When you build your ships you probably get a lot of enjoyment out of it, just like myself and others. Building the inside I get just has much enjoyment as building the out side even through we won't see it, that is unless you take photo's of them.  A lot of folks like you self also don't like building the inside, but that's ok because there is also a lot of folks like to build the inside.  It like building a 32 pounder on the gun deck. It takes awhile and building a cannon with a lot of detail just to be hidden by the upper deck,  will not be seen so why build them. Guess because I like building them and installing as much detail as my skill will let me.  They are just going to be hidden any way and all you will see is the barrel of the cannon. But I still get enjoyment out of building them and adding the detail to them hidden or not. I build them because of the sheer enjoyment that one get's from building a ship. You say that you will never understand the dubious ideal that considerable work on what will be entirely invisible details has any merit what so ever.  Well  a lot of folks like building the inside knowing that one day it will be covered up. The question is who's merit???? If you get merit out of you building then you must be enjoying it much as I do, making the parts and pieces that go in to it. Of course you may never understand it unless you do it. Which is your chose but getting the enjoyment out of your build is the most important thing.  Here is a photo of the magazine that one can not see now in her hold but can be seen with a photo, no pun intended good sir.

Very well put good sir,

Hi Shipman. You are right and time is short but one can think of it like this. When you build your ships you probably get a lot of enjoyment out of it, just like myself and others. Building the inside I get just has much enjoyment as building the out side even through we won't see it, that is unless you take photo's of them.  A lot of folks like you self also don't like building the inside, but that's ok because there is also a lot of folks like to build the inside.  It like building a 32 pounder on the gun deck. It takes awhile and building a cannon with a lot of detail just to be hidden by the upper deck,  will not be seen so why build them. Guess because I like building them and installing as much detail as my skill will let me.  They are just going to be hidden any way and all you will see is the barrel of the cannon. But I still get enjoyment out of building them and adding the detail to them hidden or not. I build them because of the sheer enjoyment that one get's from building a ship. You say that you will never understand the dubious ideal that considerable work on what will be entirely invisible details has any merit what so ever.  Well  a lot of folks like building the inside knowing that one day it will be covered up. The question is who's merit???? If you get merit out of you building then you must be enjoying it much as I do, making the parts and pieces that go in to it. Of course you may never understand it unless you do it. Which is your chose but getting the enjoyment out of your build is the most important thing.  Here is a photo of the magazine that one can not see now in her hold but can be seen with a photo, no pun intended good sir.

Looks outstanding Bitao. Really enjoy looking in on your build and help's me to work harder on my build, to do better on her construction

Hi Shipman. You are right and time is short but one can think of it like this. When you build your ships you probably get a lot of enjoyment out of it, just like myself and others. Building the inside I get just has much enjoyment as building the out side even through we won't see it, that is unless you take photo's of them.  A lot of folks like you self also don't like building the inside, but that's ok because there is also a lot of folks like to build the inside.  It like building a 32 pounder on the gun deck. It takes awhile and building a cannon with a lot of detail just to be hidden by the upper deck,  will not be seen so why build them. Guess because I like building them and installing as much detail as my skill will let me.  They are just going to be hidden any way and all you will see is the barrel of the cannon. But I still get enjoyment out of building them and adding the detail to them hidden or not. I build them because of the sheer enjoyment that one get's from building a ship. You say that you will never understand the dubious ideal that considerable work on what will be entirely invisible details has any merit what so ever.  Well  a lot of folks like building the inside knowing that one day it will be covered up. The question is who's merit???? If you get merit out of you building then you must be enjoying it much as I do, making the parts and pieces that go in to it. Of course you may never understand it unless you do it. Which is your chose but getting the enjoyment out of your build is the most important thing.  Here is a photo of the magazine that one can not see now in her hold but can be seen with a photo, no pun intended good sir.

Hi Mark. Sounds like one building a model tank, build it with the guts or just build it as a hull. Lets us have a choice. I much prefere to build it with the guts. To me much more interesting even if I can't see the inside. At least I know it's there. Gary

Hi Mark. Sounds like one building a model tank, build it with the guts or just build it as a hull. Lets us have a choice. I much prefere to build it with the guts. To me much more interesting even if I can't see the inside. At least I know it's there. Gary

When we contemplated the swan class build I asked designer David Antscherl to loft the jig for the Hahn style method. But even for a sixth rate the jig was very complex for properly lofted frames and I decided to build upright. Having built several Hahn style models I actually found building upright just as easy and more fun (I suppose because it followed actual building practice and you don't have to wait for the jig to be chopped away before you truly appreciate the lines of the model). Another alternative that is popular among French builders is to build upright using a jig below the toptimber line. Not too difficult to make if you have the framing plan.

Welcome to MSW Juddson!!!
You are correct in referring to the "style"   This thread has addressed several styles of framing, (not bulkhead construction) starting with the so called Hahn method which uses sistered frames that do not reflect how the actual ship was built, the Navy Board style which Druxey has shown in his photos and was commonly used on contemporary models, and fully framed which follows actual practice in the ship yards.  Scantlings of each part of a frame are available by measuring contemporary drawings, contracts for the ship you are building if available, or in several books that give scantlings for various years, mostly from the 1719 Establishment through David Steel's folios for ships in the late 18th century into the early 19th century. 
 
Spacing on the actual ship was normally only an inch or two as the futtocks reduced in size as you go up from the floor to the  top timbers.   Below are the "Hahn" style, Most common Navy Board Style (photo from Anderson's Navy Board Models Page 11 and a contemporary drawing of the framing disposition of HMS Jason (30) 1794.  Note in the drawing of Jason, there are dashed lines that represent the station lines as well as the edges of the frames.  These coincide with a frame edge on this drawing, but that is not always the case. 
 
I realize the drawing on the right is not very clear, but there are high resolution images of contemporary drawings of framing dispositions that you can search for at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ship_plans_of_the_Royal_Museums_Greenwich including the Jason on the tenth page.
Allan

 

Looks outstanding Bitao. Really enjoy looking in on your build and help's me to work harder on my build, to do better on her construction

Looks outstanding Bitao. Really enjoy looking in on your build and help's me to work harder on my build, to do better on her construction

Boy do you have you work cut out for you with all those books. Only kidding and a big welcome to you and your misses. Didn't know what I was going to do about my book addiction. Once again  a big welcome.  Gary