iMustBeCrazy

Another enlargement:

Santos_Dumont_N-18g.zip

It looks like the front foil (and I think the back) had suspension:

This enlargement might help.

SD 18-cleargc.zip

1 hour ago, AON said:

do the extreme ends need to be tapered like staves on a barrel?

It looks like they end at a small disk.

4 hours ago, Tomculb said:

But I have never taken the time to organize or catalog them

I'm extremely organised (HAH, heehee, hah heehee, mmmph. giggle, giggle) mine are carefully filed dumped in a folder labelled 'Endurance'.

4 hours ago, Tomculb said:

I really appreciate what you have shared.

No problem, luckily I like puzzles.

11 minutes ago, oakheart said:

it should look the part

It does.

https://digitaltmuseum.no/011024193055/modell-av-fartoy

This model looks like it got it right to me except they were later put over/outside the railing.

3 hours ago, Tomculb said:

it looks to me like the guys may be attached to the boat davits. Which makes no sense since the plans I have found

I thought they might be for a while but the davits are just in the wrong place and moving them would have been very difficult.

Anyway, this shot shows the aft starboard guy just wraps over the rail and attaches somewhere down the side of the cabin ??? Not a stanchion, not the davit. The forward one I think does the same but attaches to the chain plate. Maybe.

3 hours ago, Tomculb said:

As I look at that photo, it is facing aft from just forward of the main mast

I would say further forward, starboard side of the forward binnacle?

3 hours ago, Tomculb said:

the mainmast forward gaff

Crane jib? But yes.

Edit: This shot shows no sign of them running down the side so I guess they go to the top of the side of the cabin.

55 minutes ago, thibaultron said:

Then print it at 100%

In Windows for the L121, when the print dialogue box comes up click on the 'more options' tab, select 'Reduce/Enlarge Document and set the 'Zoom to' percentage (jeeeeeze, whats with Epson, everybody else calls it the scale).

1 hour ago, Tomculb said:

when I’ll have a better idea where to attach the other ends of the cables

Tom, it looks like after the kennels were fitted the guys were attached to the top of stanchions so as to clear the kennels.

47 minutes ago, oakheart said:

The larger skylight is done.

Looks good to me.

39 minutes ago, oakheart said:

In their dash to reach the Victorian goldfields in the quickest possible time, many ship's captains adopted the new 'Great Circle' route in the 1850s. Passing far south of the Cape of Good Hope, they sought the 'Roaring Forties' – the strong prevailing winds that blew from the west to the east between 40 and 50 degrees south.

This route involved enormous risks from drifting icebergs and the wild seas generated by frequent storms. It required exceptional navigational skills, as even the slightest error could lead to disaster. The large number of ships that were lost when navigating the narrow path between King Island and southern Victoria led to the West Coast of Victoria becoming known as the Shipwreck Coast.

The Roaring Forties was only the start, you could try your luck further south in the Raging Fifties or even the Screaming Sixties. Along the edge of the Roaring Forties was pretty much the standard route.

Fortunately for those aboard Lapwing she turned north to Adelaide long before reaching King Island or Victoria's south coast.

The Loch Ard is well remembered, the gorge she foundered off is name after her (it's the one with the big car park).

14 minutes ago, oakheart said:

From what I remember you saying they had loads of other people as passengers, how did they manage on the very long journey?

They finished up with only one paying passenger plus the owners family (wife and two daughters) and two servants (this is from newspaper articles and the servants may actually have been the daughters). They were heading out for the Gold Rush so possibly had a full (free?) crew.

32 minutes ago, oakheart said:

Do you know which route they took?

I don't actually have any info from my Great grandfather but again from newspaper reports (passing ships took mail and messages and reported sightings, whoever reached port first let them know who was coming and vaguely when to expect them) it was London to Cape Verde then probably Cape Town via the Brazilian coast, then on to Adelaide or Adelaide direct (I think Cape Town). Roughly 14,500 nautical miles in a boat that fits comfortably in my cousins front yard ( a 1 acre block, ~100' wide).

31 minutes ago, oakheart said:

Was the weather with them or did they have bad storms?

No idea but probably.

50 minutes ago, oakheart said:

I remember seeing film of a sailing ship going round the 'Horn' it was a not a comfortable thing to do.

Supposedly Bramble just going in to Brisbane:

6 hours ago, oakheart said:

1950

Doh! I even have that in the file name, I blame the migraines. 😩

43 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Do you know the dates on these or where the dates might be found?

Sorry, no and no.

This is a great resource let down by poor design. Basically we have two databases, 1, is a set of card files indexed by vessel name and 2, the one I linked to, is a collection of drawings indexed by a reference number found on the card file for that vessel.

So if you have a vessel name you can search the card file to find the card for that vessel. Unfortunately although the index is sorted by name the names do not appear in the index, just groups of numbers sorted by the names.

If we want to find 'Lapwing' which I know is there we go to https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17172954#190662,31950663  and click on the + for the group Glom-Man and somewhere in those 166 records we will find 'Lapwing', remember they are sorted by name.

When you find 'Lapwing' (116) you can read the card file, it contains Vessel Name, Vessel Type, number of guns, length, breadth, 1 or more drawing reference numbers and some comments (in this case the date the drawing was copied).

Now we can use the drawing reference numbers to find the drawings in the other database.

Now, the big problems are that the boat drawings above don't have a name so we can't find the card file and even if we could it probably won't have the date you want.

22 hours ago, oakheart said:

the problem is I wanted to make the model look like the painting which just grabbed me as an exciting image.

Yes it's an exciting image, probably more so for me as I can (and did this morning) visualise my Great grandfather on board.

I don't remember why I thought she was the 1778 Kite, perhaps I mixed up dates in my head, but that extra row of planking above the gun ports makes her more likely to be post the very early 1800s. Given the painting is dates ca1850 it is possible the artist as a boy knew Lapwings sister and remembered her fondly. There are discrepancies, the companionway faces aft and the wc and pantry are missing but she carries the right number of guns (well gun ports, she probably didn't carry a full compliment of guns) in the right places. He may have used Lapwing as a model as she was still around at the time of the painting but made changes based on boyhood memories, who knows.

Looking at the painting itself, she's running downwind with both the main and square sail set, that would be wrong, she would be unbalanced with the main trying to turn her to port. Look at the helmsman, he's heaving on the tiller trying to keep her on course. The artist understands, this is a chase, every fraction of a knot counts. As you said, an exciting picture.

So, yes this could be Lapwings sister, Speedys aunt.

13 hours ago, wefalck said:

Have you had a look at the images from the Danish archives? There are some very detailed drawings, if I remember correctly, that even show individual frames etc. and not just the stations.

Here's two, A1260f and A1260g. They both show a clear relationship between frames and station lines.

21 minutes ago, oakheart said:

I also realised that when I add the skylights to the deck, the boat will need to sit much higher off the deck, I will have to revise the cradle.

Tim, don't forget the pumps.

I had a little play with ideas when you first posted your little cutters little cutter. I came up with ZAZ6347 (Vigilant) which has light pencil lines representing boats each side of the main hatch. Now Vigilant was a little larger making this more practical but I drew 18' (port) and 16' (stb) cutters on Lapwing:

1 hour ago, oakheart said:

I have made a new cutting jig

Ah, a CrazyCutter ™ MkI-L, looks like it does the job

5 hours ago, Jaager said:

Were not boats built shell first?  The frames added later?

5 hours ago, Jaager said:

i.e.  a clinker cutter may have different requirements than those of a carvel-built launch or long boat - etc.

A clinker boat was built shell first* whereas a carvel boat was built frame first.

Do the station lines relate to frames in a boat? I think 'probably' would be the best answer for a carvel hull, at least it's the one I use, and there may have been intermediate frames as well.

For a clinker hull it's not so obvious, 'probably' for the mould/plug but for the 'ribs' no idea.

* a clinker hull is actually built mould/plug first, then planking, then 'ribs'. I think the only function of the 'ribs' is to stop the planking splitting along the rivet lines but as usual I could be wrong.

The carvel-build assimilates to that of ship-building, by first laying-off the form of the boat on the mould-loft floor, making moulds for, and taking the bevellings of the timbers, and forming them (the timbers) accordingly. The timbers are then erected, and secured in a temporary manner in their position, and the planking is afterwards brought upon them.

But in the clincher and diagonal build, the planking is brought on first to the stem, stern-port, and transom or keel, as the case may be; and to moulds placed between to give the form; and the timbers are afterwards brought upon the planking.
 

On 4/9/2024 at 3:59 AM, theoracle09 said:

The port side is odd, the sides extend well passed the mizzen deck.

1 hour ago, Tomculb said:

I too pondered over the photo you posted and decided that the port ladder was probably a portable one they moved around from place to place.

As they decked over the bridge deck openings the four forward ladders became redundant. It would appear one was cut down and used to get over the top of the kennels, another had a couple of upper treads removed and used port side aft probably because the amount of stores along the centreline prevented previous access from the starboard ladder unless you went all the way up to the mainmast and back. Just a guess.

On 3/25/2024 at 8:19 PM, oakheart said:

Where does time go?

I keep getting diverted

Me too, anyway that's a nice little cutter for your nice little cutter.

2 hours ago, theoracle09 said:

I believe the cook to be standing on the port side

Correct, outside the galley door.

2 hours ago, theoracle09 said:

However, this looks more to me like the port side mizzen lower deadeyes

Again correct.

On 3/27/2024 at 5:22 AM, Sanjith_D said:

so I would like to hear your guy’s experiences with whether something like this Would work. I'd also love any tips for any aspect of this project, especially transcribing the Frigate's plan into CAD

Well, you can follow my bumbling path through the links in my sig with the Lapwing drawings and build (to date) but I seriously suggest you start with something simpler than a Frigate, say a dinghy, skiff, dory etc. in 1:24 or 1:16

Meanwhile look for Frigate drawings you like in the best quality you can find, perhaps the Enterprize class, many nice big drawings:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=rmg+enterprize&title=Special:MediaSearch&go=Go&type=image&fileres=>1000

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=rmg+rose+plan+-chart+-painting&title=Special:MediaSearch&go=Go&type=image&fileres=>1000

1 hour ago, Mike Shea said:

I really want to capture that beatup weathered as well as that scrap lumber look that ships carpenter, Harry McNish, seemed to use in their construction based on the photographs I've seen.

Mike, I've always seen the dog kennels as recycled packing crates, pretty rough and ready. Built in sections of 3 and 4 dogs, sometimes the gap between two sections is roofed over for an extra dog. Probably 1/2 inch planks roughly sawn to length, butt jointed (I think that shingled look is just warped planks). Those forward seem rougher than the rest, possibly they used the best material aft?

The 'Bovril' shot probably the best guide to their construction.

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

Are you asking about the drawing Craig posted or ??

I think he's asking you. Hope you don't mind, here's some enlargements:

I had been thinking that it needed a sill under the doors otherwise the inboard ones wouldn't open properly.

St Albans (1687) probably.