Egilman

Hi Kevin, if you do decide to replace them, the 1946 Popular Mechanics Overland Stage model, (1/12th scale scratchbuilt) recommended using leather shoelaces, you can get them wide enough (at least you could back in '48) and one pair is more than long enough... They would have to be shaved for thickness down to the tanned side and overlapped.. the shackles would fit in their appropriate places so it would look the same and the ends in the middle where they meet put on the top side so they are hidden next to the coach body... It looks natural and real when done... (you can also bury the wire support inside them as well just in case) The leather will accept hide glue or white glue and be very secure... The coach work is brilliant the carriage work is excellent, it's going to be a real masterpiece when done...

Thanks Ken, I knew about the Klear/Future/Pledge debacle.. {chuckle} Thank you Alan, I've got my fingers crossed... Thanks OC, and all I can say is so am I.... Thanks Gary, I think I've got the idea of it and the point of the forum is to share... Testing and experimentation is how we learn... and documenting it here is a way to keep it from dying as a technique if I can learn how it is best done... so a small sacrifice becomes necessary.... If this works, we will be able to put a BMF on anything that will rival and possibly surpass anything an airbrush can do... That's priceless to guys that aren't airbrush skilled... Like me... {chuckle} The link for the P-51 test build is here... Just in case someone comes along late and is trying to follow.... Onwards brothers, onward EG

Ok my friends... Not going to go into a lot about this airplane.. It is my first attempt to build a Bare Metal Bird using the techniques needed for applying Rub n Buff... I've posted pics of what this material can do for simulated Bare Metal finishes on aircraft models here, and it looks spectacular when done... The aircraft I'm going to be modeling is P-51B-10 42-106638 - 376FS, 361FG, 8AF, it wore the unit designations codes E9-R named "Impatient Virgin" & E9-B named "EVOI" (with malcom hood conversion) I will be attempting to do her as Impatient Virgin... (I ordered the decals for it) She crashed during the war in a farmers field and was buried as unsalvageable... She was recovered sometime in 2007 and restored... This is what she looks like today... This is a fairly decent representation of her aside from her Malcom Hood conversion it looks like the same aircraft... Unfortunately this is close to what she looked like in WWII but not really... She is painted in aluminum paint.... During WWII she was a typical bare metal fuselage, Olive Drab horizontal top surfaces & anti-glare panel.... She did have invasion stripes but they did not rise above the national insignia nor cross the top of the wing... The bottom of the wing was painted aluminum.... And of course the Nose was insignia yellow... A very nice combination of colors... Here are some images of her in WWII... You can see the color changes and canopy modification with the designation change.... The kit I'm using for this is... It's a relatively simple kit only 57 parts of which is a complete Packard-Merlin which has to be installed cause it carries the propeller shaft so the prop can turn... The cockpit is fairly basic using a decal to represent the instrument panel and some side panels that are a little light on the detail, the seat is very basic... So I will be closing up the cockpit... This is basically going to be a quick build to get to the finishing aspect so I'm not going to get into anymore history on the bird...... The coloration I'm going for is Yellow Nose, Bare Aluminum Fuselage & Tail, Olive Drab on the top of the wings and horizontal stabilizer, and painted aluminum under the wings... Invasion stripes on the bottom only of the fuselage and wings as she was during the war... This will involve a number of techniques of using Rub n Buff to achieve the effects of bare aluminum and painted aluminum... I will be doing the details where they will be seen, but I will not be adding any... So here goes, will be gluing parts in a bit.... (and planning the paint sequence) EG

Ok I think I'm ready for my first airframe.... Natural light.... High Flash... That's over Tamiya Grey Primer... you do want a smooth finish before you apply it and you want to apply it very very thin, a little bit does the trick, AND once you have applied it and buffed it up stay off it... You do not want to add more cause it will muck it up... That's sufficient for an inservice bird that receives a modicum of maintenance every once in a while... So I'm going to give it a shot on the Revell P-51 OOB... A quick build just to validate the system I have in my mind... I'll start a new thread and handle the 51 in it's own thread and link from here to there and back when done.... (understanding the point of the 51 is to test this and not produce a finished model, although I will try to make it as good as I can) I will cover what I'm doing with the 51 in it's thread... I like it... Right now Silver Leaf Rub n Buff put down real thin with a gloved finger and rubbed in, on a glossy grey smooth surface, then lightly polished with Tee Shirt cloth then overcoated with Future... that the technique I'll be doing... See ya there... EG

Thanks Ken, I'm still trying to follow Pete's method and learning some of what he said in his brief notes on his technique... And yes he does say black gives a greater depth of color than lighter colors for polished aluminum, Grey works for unpolished aluminum.. He also wrote that once you've put RnB down and buffed it out, if you put a dull overcoat over it it looks like raw aluminum. and if you put a gloss coat over it it looks like aluminum paint... there is a few other things like future, (he called it klear) will seal it with minimum discoloration, (good for decals and painted details) Although decals will go over RnB directly, setting solutions don't bother it... I did find out one thing... Hand and finger oils will take it off after repeated handling, and it doesn't take much handling as you can see above... So I'm looking at handling with nitrile gloves and sealing with future, once your happy with the finish, being mandatory... Here is the other side of the sheet which I've prepped with gloss black and testors ultra clear over tamiya grey primer.... This is for the second step of the initial testing which I will report here... then I will have to test this on an actual model... So I went to HL today and purchased a fairly inexpensive kit to test this on... This kit has been out a while cause I built it several decades ago... Not so expensive as it will hurt if I screw it up but presentable if it comes out right... and fits the scale of my other builds so it won't be out of place on the shelf... Once this last sheet test is done and reported I will be shifting to it as an OOB test of the method on a complete model, I do not want to screw up over 200.00 worth of F-104 cause I don't really know what I'm doing... Second test coming up... Onwards... EG

Nice job, I built that one when young and they were still in use... a quick little build decent detail for the period and it actually looked like the subject.... That was a plus... According to R.P. Hunnicutt, the god of US Armor historians, (Hunnicutt was one of the founders of the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen Proving Ground and a frequent contributor to the Patton Museum at Fort Knox.) the Patton series of Medium and Main Battle Tanks runs from the M-46 thru the M-60, The M-60 being the last of the breed... Then the failed MTB-70 and then the M-1 Abrams.... The official names for them were; Medium Tank M-46, 90mm Gun Tank M-47, 90mm Gun Tank M-48, and 105mm Gun Tank M-60.... They were all given the unofficial nickname "Patton".... They all had their variants designated as A1, A2, A3 the same as the earlier M-4's and M-26's did... The last of the Patton series was the M-60A3... Those tracks, if left to their original connection method will fail, that's what happened to mine... I came up with the same solution after they fell off, stitching them together, unfortunately, being made of vinyl, they eventually disintegrated completely... It got relegated to the shelf of doom where it eventually was sacrificed as parts/materials to more modern builds.... Todays aftermarket will allow it to be built into a very nice representation of a late model M-48 more early vietnam era than european era... Looking good my friend...

Just a question Kevin, I think your idea of using elastic for the leather suspension gives a very real action to the suspension... have you figured a way to deal with the rubber in those elastics when it dries out and breaks? My suggestion, while you are at this point, is to thread a thin brass wire or two through each elastic, so when the rubber dries out and breaks, the nylon covering and wire will hold them together and the dead rubber will serve as a filler to let them keep their shape? I would hate to see all that beautiful work fail in a few years...

Another small update... Testing continues... Two things I learned, you get a nice soft reflection off flat paint, you get a shinier reflection off a shiny coating... That is .020 styrene sheet with a brush on coat of future allowed to dry completely... This is close to the finish on a standard issue bare metal bird... and what it tells me is shinier finishes work better for shiny metal, flat finishes work better for unpolished metal.... Now future is not a super shiny smooth finish, it is a smooth semi gloss finish... So what I'm going to do tomorrow is split the other side of this sheet and paint half of it with high gloss black over Tamiya grey primer from rattle cans and on the other end rattle can a diamond finish after smoothing the surface down to as smooth as possible... Glass like I hope... The smoother the surface the shinier the RnB buffs up is what I think happens....... The reflection above, I can see myself in it from about two feet away, just a blur mind you but you do know it is you when you move around... You can tell and arm is an arm a hand is a hand, but you cannot pick out details... From about a foot away, I can see my face, blurry, but you can see it... Better the second time around I think... Now I'm beginning to wish I didn't prime the plane parts flat black... cause I might have to change them to gloss... Till tomorrow brothers...

Mine too, we had the 318th FIS out here when they transitioned from F-106's to F-15's... They are something to behold.....

I'm here Dan, Several decades ago I did the 1/48th Monogram "A" model of this aircraft... Yep it's a large one alright... Will be taking the center soft chair, back won't handle climbing up to the rafters... (now where's that popcorn)

Excellent! It's probably time I learned to paint figures.... and I can't go wrong with your advice...

Ok Brothers, my first not so scientific test... Remember the old turret top I used the last time? well I used it again cause the top was un touched and the ideal is putting RnB over bare plastic... The section covering the hatch & behind the cupola, back to the storage bin... The half behind the cupola to the end of the turret, (not including the bin) was daubed with a q-tip dunked in Future and allowed to dry... The coloration did darken a smidgen not enough to really notice and the reflection remains..... That semi test came out well so I figured I would try it on a plain white scrap of model plastic.... In real life, you can read the lettering in the reflection... That's straight Rub N Buff took all of two minutes to apply... It seals with Future and it produces the exact same polished surface on plastic you see in Paul's pics of his models... Excellent!!!! Need to practice a few more times to get a better feeling for it, but what is said about it is true, you want a natural metal finish that actually looks like metal in real life this is the product to do it... There is no paint that will do this...

Ok Brothers, I'm still here.. Was a bit under the weather again so I took the opportunity do so some research into F-104's and Paul Coudyrette's Rub n Buff Technique... Found a lot of pics of his models especially his Bare Metal birds... It appears to me that he's built most of the various manufacturers bare metal aircraft models, in his 50+ year modeling career, including the B-58, the B-25, the B-17 and all the various fighter aircraft... He was a master of brushwork/fingerwork, never used an airbrush, in fact he didn't even own one... You will see why I want to learn this technique... These are all Paul's builds... Yeah, that's what I said as my jaw was breaking when it hit the floor... Unfortunately there is no tutorial on his technique and he passed some six years ago... Of the numerous requests in the forums he frequented was to do a tutorial, he would always say he explained his method in other forums/threads, occasionally giving a hint of what he does, but never in detail... I did find one post where he outlines his technique, (probably cause he got tired of answering the questions over and over) but then when you spend decades figuring out how to do something like we see above, it is time to admire and not question... (I also found a post on what he uses for those colored heat stains on RnB and pretty much all his tinting for BMF's) There is a video of his technique being demonstrated but it is in French and although it does show the finish as applied in basic technique, it doesn't go into a lot of detail in what was happening while doing it or how to finish it off... So I need to do some more testing... I want to make sure I understand his technique fully and that was his advice, try, try and more try... He was willing to point the way, but he stated more than once that the best way to learn it was to try it and experiment, just like he did over 60 years of modeling... I think that is why you don't see very many models done this way (almost none except his) No one is willing to do the work to learn and perfect his technique... Paul Coudyrette, A master modeler, maestro with a paintbrush..... Anyway, This is my next step... Yeah putting the main fuselage halves together without doing too much damage to the painted finish... This is alternative 2 because I'm leaving the engine out, in fact I'm thinking through how I want to present this plane again... Feeling a bit uncomfortable with the everything open look, it's not my style... So I think I'm gonna go back to the image of what she shows in the video and let it be that.... Like she returned from a successful mission... Anyway onwards, testing won't take too long... and I'll probably do a few simple parts first like the wing tanks just to make sure I got it right...

I will be seriously interested in the steps you use to paint these figures Brother, they are the same ones I have for mine...

Very Very nice kitbash to correct the obvious shortcuts the mfgr took... Well Done!!!

Hey Brothers... Today the weather got warm enough so the Shop could be successfully heated by the wood stove sufficient for painting... I took all the major parts that will need a metal finish and primed them with Testors Flat Black.... It went down very smooth and even... Getting ready soon for the first major construction... Onwards...

My pleasure, I've never tried inks before, food coloring was always what I used cause it seems to mix well with whatever I put it in, besides, I have a ready supply of it from the Admirals baking supplies... My technique on tinted glass panels was to dip them in a little cup of the solution of coloring and Future rather than paint them, then place them face down on a paper towel allowing the paper to wick the colored future off the surface.. After a few minutes, (3-4) I would move them to another section of the towel so they didn't dry to the paper... Once dry, then dip them in completely clear future to give the outside a clear and shiny appearance... (also if the outside still had a bit of tint you could clean it off and the second dipping would restore the shine) Dipping ensures a smooth even coat which is what is required for tinting clear plastic and future dries ultra thin so an even coat is vital... I'm sure there are other techniques that will do as good a job, the secret is to get an even thin coat on the surface you want to tint... I'm sure you will find a solution that will work well for you...

No understanding needed, ENJOY....

Thanks Dennis Yep I've decided to keep it outside since they give you a very nice and accurate engine stand as well... It's already on my display shelf next to my F-4J.... I'm using the old Hase engine to support the tail cone so it looks right in a closed up fuselage.... Still working out which direction I need to go from here, I have to depart from the instructions build sequence cause to prime the fuselage flat black would mean having to mask off a ton of already completed fine detail... If I follow the build sequence... So I'm working out a way to get them primed before I assemble the fuselage... flat black should be easy to fix if I damage any of it before laying down the finish... (I have individual clear formation lights to tint and install as well before assembly, so it would be easier to prime it first... It's not going to be as easy as the Hasegawa fuselage for sure...

Alan, that tinting is the polarization of the viewing ports so they don't get glare and reflections when the look thru them... On my kit of the Abrams I have the aftermarket films used to replicate it... you see it on all the glass where they look thru it from the inside, including the targeting and range finders... and yes it is different colors on different glass panels... You guys are going really trying to get me to start this thing aren't you.... {chuckle} Two ways to go about it putting that tint on the windows, get the various colors of clear paint washes, or cheaper, food coloring mixed in Future/Pledge acrylic finish coating the insides... Just enough to give a decent coloring to the future... Then, when colored and dry, dip the entire part in clear future to seal it in...

One of the great things about this forum, the living history... Thank you all for your service...

No more for me either... I sincerely empathize my friend... two laminectomies here T6-7 & T7-8... docs tell me I'm lucky to be walking.... Take care brother...

Yep, thousands of dollars a pop... and will travel halfway around the world for the opportunity... all on their own dime.... But I imagine doing it 4 times a year can get to be old quickly as well...

Thanks Gary, my luck is holding for now.... Will do my best...

A lot of it was like that back then, sign on the dotted line and we can do whatever we want with you... The thing is, given what they advertise today, a lot of it back then was OJT, "Hey we gots this job to fill here it's pretty dangerous who's the next guy in line?;, does he have any experience?;, Nooooo.... well stick him in there any way and educate him on it!;, YES SIR!!! ... "Hey son, come over here,, You have been assigned to me,, have I got a job for you......."