Bill97
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Kevin I ran across what I think is a pretty good method to make a furled sail that I am going to practice a bit. If I can get something I like I may use it on my Victory. If not I will just go without sails. With that in mind I am going to leave the sheet, clewline, and tack belay points loose so I can maneuver that rigging intersection to wherever the tip of the sail ends up being. I know I should decide before I move forward but I am just so unsure what I want to do. I am definitely not going full unfurled sail. I can’t figure out how to copy and paste a link but here is the title of the post if you want to search for it. Landlubber Mike's technique for furled sails
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Kevin I took some time today to get get caught up on your Cutty Sark build. I am amazed at your skill and ability to print the pieces and modify their size from the OOTB pieces to make them more visually appealing. Your painting is fantastic as well. I am following your inner debate about furled sails. I am having the same inner debate for my Victory. Can not decide.
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Popeye mentally I have stepped away from my Victory reference this question. Not actually asking this question as it might pertain to my build, but just for my nautical knowledge. I have always been fascinated by the engineering people use to make things work. To that point the rigging of these tall ships amazes me how each and every line serves a well thought out unique purpose. This sheet, clewline, tack engineering is fascinating me and I wonder if you could answer a question for me. Again this is not necessarily for my build, just my knowledge. I am trying to figure out what the crew would do when they wanted to add a sail or remove a sail. Above you said the blocks for the sheet, tack, and clew would be attached to the corner of the sail. I am guessing in the photo below you sent me the loop that is wrapped around the clew block is attached to the sail? It is hen just pulled along to wherever this block arrangement is pulled by the lines. In the other photo from Caldercraft at the top of the 3 different sheets it shows either a large block (D) or a smaller one for the topgallant sail. It further shows the clew line reeving through these blocks and then on to its appropriate belay point. In actually practice for accuracy that should be a 2 block arrangement for the upper sails, with the clew reeving through the top one, the sheet reeving through the bottom one? Was there away the crew were able to attach or remove the loop at the corner of the sail to this 2 or 3 block arrangement without having to take down the rigging? In the picture you sent, if the loop going around the clew block is in fact the corner of the sail I can’t see how the crew could get it in that position without removing the clewline that reeves through the clew block. In the photo from Caldercraft it shows the standing end of the clew tied off at the yard. When adding or removing a sail did the crew untie that standing end take it through the clew block and then tie it back to the yard?
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Thanks Popeye. This will help a lot. I am still debating with myself if to do furled sails or no sails. Probably leaning more toward no sails. Which ever way I go I now understand how to rig the sheets and clew. Obviously best to decide prior to rigging but if I rig the sheet and clews drawn up to the yard now as if for no sails and would then later decide to add furled sails I would just rig the the clew at the corner of the furled sail to the block at the end of the sheet. I guess that is how it was actually done on the ship? By the way I very much remember blog input from you on one of my previous builds a couple years ago (great MSW name you use. Unforgettable). Can’t remember which one now. Hope you are doing well. Was up your way in Boston a while back and of course had to visit the USS Constitution!
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Thanks Allan. Unless someone advises me otherwise I am going to follow the instructions on the Caldercraft plan for the sheets, tacks, and clewlines. So if I understand correctly, just for my knowledge, if a sail was hung on the yard the bottom corner would be attached in a rig grouping at the point where the sheet meets up at the clew. Then when the sheet is pulled out to the end of the yard the clew line would follow with the corner of the sail attached. In this design the clew and sheet work opposite each other to haul the sail in or out. In the above diagram the corner of the sail would be attached right there at the block on the sheet? Is this correct?
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Caldercraft
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Thanks Jose. I attached a page from a different manufacturer of the model ship’s instructions. It makes it clear, I think, how to do the sheets. Does it appear fairly accurate? If so, I can do this. In actual use would the block shown at the end of the sheets near the yard be attached to the corner of the sail and be hauled up by the corresponding clewline?
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Thanks gentlemen. I attached a page from a different manufacturer of the Victory kit. This is easy to understand and follow. Is it accurate if go without sails? In actual use on a ship would the block at the end of the sheet up near the yard and clew in this diagram be rigged to the corner of the corresponding sail?
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Thank you my friends for your recommendation. I am not at all familiar with the inks you are talking about. Would you be so kind as to tell me what to look for to purchase so I can practice? Also do these inks work well with acrylics? I have an entire spectrum of Vallejo acrylics, both brush and spray. Probably a couple hundred bottles and colors. Years ago I switched from oils to acrylics. I have pretty much just used black acrylic washes for any distressing I wanted to do. Here are a few pictures of my Man-O-War I did with acrylics.
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I am currently building the Heller HMS Victory. My build can be found here on MSW in the index under Bill97. I am using Longridge’s book as a major reference source. I have reached the point in my rigging where I will soon be adding all the sheets and clews. I am not going to display my Victory in full sail. I am either going to leave the sails off all together or maybe tightly furled. My question is how do I rig the sheets on the masts and yards if I will not be adding sails? I know that if I had full sails the sheets would reeve through a block at the corner of the sail, but what do I do with the sheet line if there is no sail. I have a building instruction from another manufacturer that shows how to rig the sheets with no sails but I am not sure if it is accurate. I can’t get my head around how that rigging plan would change if sails were added.
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Ok my great friends I need some nautical education. Reading through Longridge and other references I find I am stumped by “sheets”. As I am finishing up the ratlines I am planning a little ahead for where I go next. I will have the lifts, buntlines, and leachlines done, and I understand how to do all the braces so I am good with them. Sheets, and I guess clue lines, have me scratching my head. Especially if I stay with my plan of no sails or furled sails. When I read about sheets it seems as if the end the rope (sheet) is attached to the corner of the sail. When I look at the pictures and diagrams (plan #7 as an example) it appears that the sheets are rigged through the blocks at the end the yard and pulled by the crew to bring the sail out to the end of the yard when the sail was unfurled. The confusion for me is it appears the sheets are rigged to the yards and various belay points regardless if sails are furled, unfurled, are absent all together. The attached picture shows a block for the sheet attached to the corner of a sail.
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Dave without a doubt that is my most often “oh s—-“ moment. The main yard has received the most abuse on this model! Not sure why? Every time I do it I give myself a good counseling. Thankfully it does not often result in damage as it did yesterday, just gritting of my teeth. Unfortunately that has not seemed to improve my frequent clumsiness!
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OK so yesterday was one of those days when you ask yourself if you should just put down the tools, close the door to the ship yard, and go back to bed? I started the day trimming the excess ends of the ratlines I had tied the day before and applied a touch of white glue to each knot. In the process of trimming the excess ends I accidentally cut one of the mainmast backstays that runs close to the shrouds 😬. I did not want to tear into the mass of ropes tied at the mast to replace this backstay so I spliced a new section of thread into the cut end near an area where the splice knot would not be as visible. I then replaced the remainder of the line down to the channel. Whew! With that fixed I back in track to work on my goals for the day. Next through my clumsiness I reached for something, I don’t remember what, and caught the fore Royal stay with my hand. This pressure against the stay broke the fore topgallant mast right above the flying jib stay. (Note: I continue to have a problem with clumsiness as I reach and move my hands around this ship. An issue I have had while building all my ships. An issue I really wish I could cure). After a deep exhale of frustration I repaired the broken topgallant mast and moved on with my day. In the early days of my mast construction I did not replace this section of plastic mast with wood or metal because it is one piece and so thin. I will have to reconsider this when working on my SR. Once I repaired all my damage and took a deep relaxing breath I returned to my build. I completed the ratlines on the main topmast shrouds on the port side and started the starboard side. Today I hope to successfully trip the excess ends of the port side ratlines and finish the starboard side. With this complete I will have the ratlines, lifts, and buntlines done on the fore and main mast. Wish me luck for no more self inflicted damage.
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Marc I just picked up one of the references you recommended.
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Here is a quick ratline question. I understand from my source information that the ratlines on the lower shrouds end at the futtock stave and then continue up the futtock shrouds to the mast top. Ratlines are not put on the lower shrouds above the futtock stave behind the futtock shrouds. Is that correct? I am just curious if that is in fact correct how did the crew climb up to the hole in the top? I read where brave and bold crewmen would climb up the futtock shrouds and over the outer edge of the top. Almost hanging backwards from the futtock shrouds like a mountain climber. How did crewmen not so daring climb from the futtock stave to the hole in the top? 🤔
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John I envy the luxury you have living so close. With Kentucky being inland in the USA the closest ship I can visit is the USS Constitution in Boston, which I have done several times and thoroughly enjoyed. I built it back many days ago (blog here on MSW). I have learned so much since then I may do it over someday.
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Thanks Marc. I will look to get some of the sources you reference. Glad to hear he French and English ship architecture is more similar than different. After learning to rig the Victory I have a sense of what lines should be where to do what. Will be comforting to know more about the SR will be similar than drastically different. By by the way where are you moving? Leaving New York?
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Very impressive Marc. Great techniques for the painting I may practice and employ when I begin painting my SR. I primarily paint with Vallejo acrylics so I hope I can achieve something close to what you have done. I have a real curiosity about the Soleli Royal I wonder if you have an opinion about? I have learned so much nautical terminology and rigging design of British ships while building my Victory. Prior to building the Victory I simply followed the manufactures building/rigging instructions on my other builds without knowledge of what parts were, what there function was, or how all the rigging played its part in the function of the ship. Now that I have nearly completed the Victory I believe I am much more knowledgeable of the ship workings. My curiosity is if there was a difference in English and French ship engineering? I have learned all this very interesting science of an English built sailing ship and believe if I was to build another English ship of the same era the engineering would be the same, and that I could follow the same rigging sequence. However, I know the Soleli Royal was a French ship. Did the French and English follow the same rigging engineering, are the nautical terms and parts of the English and French ships the same, or is it very much different? Did the French ship builders have a completely different design or science in how they rigged their mast, yards, and sails? I ask this because I am curious now that I have gained all this new knowledge about the building of the English Victory, I wonder if once I start the SR if that will all out the window and I will need to learn new terminology and rigging design
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Back to my Victory. Finished the ratlines on the lower shrouds on the port side of the main mast. Now starting on the same shrouds on the starboard side. Will then move up to the futtock shroud ratlines and ultimately the upper ratlines. I have also gone back and done a thorough inspection of all my lines looking for any place I may have a line unnaturally crossing or rubbing against another line. I have found a few here and there. When I discover one I untie it and rerun it so there is no negative interaction with another line. Lines that I could see wearing if on the actual Victory. Another area I am going to pay very close attention to when I build my SR is the tying off of the lanyards that connect the shroud deadeyes. Mine are not uniform in height above the top deadeyes. I guess I wrapped the lanyard more times around the shroud in some cases and less in others. Especially obvious now that I am adding the ratlines. I think what I will do to make it not so obvious is touch up the light colored lanyard with a bit of black paint right above the first ratline. In close examination the shroud will appear thicker above the first ratline where the lanyard is wrapped up that high, but not as noticeable as varying height of light colored lanyard.
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No John I have not had the pleasure of seeing the original Victory in Portsmouth. Hopefully someday I will be able to, maybe after all the renovating is done several years from now! Were you able to find my Victory build? Am wondering if when you said “Not a patch on your Victory” if that meant you could not find the build blog. Once I dig into my SR I will let you know if I experience the same issues all you guys have reported. If so, I will know it is the same kit with just new clearer instructions.
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Marc I am probably breaking some commandment by peaking into SR builds while still working on my HMS Victory! However, I just can’t help myself. The work you are doing is absolutely beautiful! I can only hope to build my SR close to what you have done. I will most certainly read through your build many times before I begin and for sure save many of your photos for quick reference. I will imagine you addressed this in your blog so forgive me if I ask you to repeat. I am very impressed with your painting of the ship. I have to ask if you painted all the detail by hand, and if so, how in the world did you do it?
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John I am a new visitor to your SR build. I am currently building the Heller HMS Victory (14 months in process) with help and advice from Ian and Marc who have commented here. I have what I understand to be the new production of the Heller SR in my stash ready to begin after I finish my Victory. My Heller SR model came with the new instruction book in full color. I am curious if your kit came with the older paper instructions or the new instruction book? Which will then make me curious if Heller improved it’s part molds with the new production and corrected some of the flaws. I have your build along with Marc’s and two others saved for reading and reference once I start my SR build. I have taken note of the reference books recommended. Since the SR no longer exists and there does not seem to be much first hand reference to that ship, and of course no photos, it is good to have the artistic freedom to modify as you see fit without strict concerns for authenticity. The SR will be the first of my 6 ships I have built and displayed that the original or replica does not exist. I am very much looking forward to my SR build and will definitely be referring to your build when I do. Beautiful job.
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Which SR build is John Clements? I don’t see it in the index.
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Thanks gentlemen. I will look at the builds. I am already ordering stuff I need for my SR build (threads, gold leaf, etc). That was the majority of my birthday gift hints. Still a good ways to go on my Victory which I am enjoying very much.
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