Bill97
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Got another curiosity. As I move throughout the different rigging lines there are few lines (not many) here and there that originate or pass through blocks up around the 3 topgallant yards or the upper section of the mast. The rigging instructions say to pass the line outside the mast top and belay to a particular deadeye on a designated channel. As a result these lines are also outboard the shrouds as they continue down to the channel. I have belayed them at the outboard on the deadeye. Now that I have virtually finished the rigging lines that belay at the deadeyes I am wondering, and hoping, outboard is correct. The only way I can see to rig them inboard at the bottom deadeye would be to lace these few lines through the shrouds and ratlines, which I think would look kind of odd.
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Thanks Ian. That is what I eventually did. Just tied them at the timber heads. Ian I am currently reading the Master and Commander book. It is interesting there is a large section in one chapter discussing the crewman using the futtock shrouds instead of the lubber’s hole. One of the fictional crewman talks about being on the futtock shrouds when the ship would tilt to that side in a wave. He says your body can get almost parallel to the water with no ship under you. He says he just wraps his arms in the shrouds and hangs on until the ship tilts back the other direction to where he is close to vertical then climbs again. Must have been an exciting time during rough seas. One thing I have learned during this Victory build that I most definitely will do on my SR build and any further builds, is make my own fife rails using strong wire for the belay pins. I have needed to tie and untie a number of the sheets and clewlines as I have made minor adjustments along the way. There is no way the little plastic bits on the rails provided in the kit would have stood up. They would have broken off very early in the process and I would have been at a loss how to belay the line.
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Sheets and clewlines done in both of he bowsprit yards and the top two on the foremast. Have not done the sheet, tack, and clewline on the bottom yard yet. I am thinking of waiting nearer the end of rigging to add these lines. I think it might be easier to still access the inner belay points if these lines were not in the way let. (Note: Hope you guys don’t crazy when you read my post and I don’t use correct nautical terms for the yards. I know their names, it is just faster to say top or bottom 😊) Looking at my first picture here after I posted it, I see the allusion of my middle yard being pulled off level by the sheet. Will have to inspect to see if that is correct and make necessary corrections if needed.
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Can you guys tell me where specifically the spritsail topsail yard clueline belays? One set of instructions I read says to belay to the beakhead fife rail I am not sure what that is or where at the beakhead. Longridge on page 239 just says belay on forecastle.
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Can you guys tell me where specifically the spritsail topsail yard clueline belays? One set of instructions I read says to belay to the beakhead fife rail I am not sure what that is or where at the beakhead. Longridge on page 239 just says belay on forecastle.
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Kpnuts it has obviously been several years since you posted about your Soleli Royal. I am wondering if you still read or post here on MSW. If you do see this I have a question I hope you will answer. I am about to start my Heller Soleli Royal and I also plan to guild the ship decorations with gold leaf as you did. I am looking at your progress pictures at the beginning. Did you gold leaf the complete piece is hen paint in the blue over the gold leaf. That is what it looks like in your pictures. Or did you paint the pieces and then guild over the painted decorations with the gold leaf?
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I have been retired since Oct 2010. Marc I recently gave my lathe away to an up and coming young family wood worker. So far I have kept my table saw, router table, biscuit joiner, drills, and a number of other manual and electric hand tools. Back in the day I had quite the little woodworking shop where I supplemented my regular employment income by building custom furniture for clients. Had to pay for 3 kids in college. Most vacations from work were used up working at home in the garage shop. Now that that is behind my wife and me and no longer a critical need for additional income I now just make furniture pieces for myself or special occasion gifts. Still that is now limited to small pieces that don’t require such an elaborate shop. So far I have been able to fill the 12 years since I retired with just enjoying myself with things I like to do like travel and building model ships.
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Thanks Popeye. The second part of your reply is my exact question. I will suspend the block up close to the yard as in the diagram I attached with the red lines.
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This is his smaller Victory. His grandmother hand stitched his sail for him. Pretty good I think for a 6-7 year old 😠
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Yes Dave there is a lock! My youngest grandchild, the one who’s 8th birthday we are celebrating tonight is actually my ship building buddy. Together we built a much smaller scale HMS Victory, I think it is 1/250 from Revell. He really enjoyed building it on Papaw Day (as he calls it). I made a small display case for it in my ship room. He likes to compare his to mine under construction, and points out the many similarities. 😊
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Marc I don’t know if this is good news or bad news, but based on your involvement it does not get less busy as a grandparent. 😊 We have 3 kids and 7 grandkids. Different sets of grandkids are here 3 days each week. Most are involved in sports so there are games to go to on week nights and weekends. Speaking of birthday parties, we are celebrating One of the grandkid’s birthday tonight. Got to love it.
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Love the Victory pun Marc 😀. You are right about the sails. Would be difficult. How is the move going?
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Dave you talking about the ratlines? If so, no I am leaving light colored thread. I have seen a number of builders use a tan thread for the ratlines and black for the shrouds. I really like the visual interest that brings.
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ALL THE RATLINES ARE FINISHED!!! Wow! That is all I can say. Would be curious of the total knots, but not going to waste time doing the math. 😊 Now on to sheets, clews, tacks, and braces (+ a few other threads here and there) to finish the rigging! Subject to change if I decide to add furled sails, which I must decide soon. For ship parts I still have the anchors, lanterns, davits and boats, and stanchions and rails for the mast tops
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Thanks Marc. That lifts my spirits a bit about the pricey model I have yet to get into. I am surprised you commented here. I hoped you would but expected you were up to your elbows in paint and had no time for MSW! 😊
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Well John and Marc (Marc if you venture over here to John’s blog). I have begun reading SR build blogs and researching other references on line about the Soleli Royal at times when I am not working on my Victory. I have to admit I had not researched the model much at all prior to purchasing it. I was fully expecting it to be of the same quality as the Victory. I had read the Heller 1/100 Victory and Soleli Royal were the flagship models produced by Heller. I also understood the building instructions supplied by Heller for both were not very good, especially the rigging instructions. I purchased the Longridge book for the Victory and with the help of a few fine people here on MSW I have been able to build a model I am proud of. I have not opened my SR kit yet but I can only assume Heller produced it from the same molds as their previous editions you guys are building. From all the reading and research I have done, including both your build blogs here, it seems the model has some short comings to say the least. After my experience with the Victory I fully intend to purchase replacement deadeyes, blocks, and other rigging parts. I am curious if the deficiencies you have experienced are related more toward ill fitting pieces and actual construction problems or more toward inaccurate authenticity, or both? I am much more interested in building a beautiful model ship but not necessarily an authentic replica. No one I know that will ever see it will inspect it to point out period inaccuracies! Based on your experience building it, does the out of box kit present the opportunity to build and complete the model, or are there numerous instances where pieces just don’t fit together or work the way Heller explains? I am thinking I am glad I am building and learning from the Victory before starting the Soleli Royal instead of the other way around.
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My last move to mine and my wife’s current home was in 2005 after all three kids got married and moved on. Repainted the whole interior last year and hope that is the last time I have to do it. This 70 year old man has no business on a ladder painting high vaulted walls and ceilings. Will have to pay a professional next time, or threaten the kids and grandkids to do it for me. Yes good enuff is good enuff.
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Thanks again Popeye. That might be an idea to tinker around with as an idea. One last question Popeye and then I will stop picking your brain. A little ways back you said “One method of rigging these three lines on a model when there is no sail bent is to put the strops of the blocks through each other and then hoist them up part way to the yard with the clew.” In the diagram I attached for this conversation it shows this arrangement hoisted up close to the yard and actually gives a measurement of 25mm or 30mm. In the plan I have from my reference book on the Victory written by Longridge it shows this arrangement drawn almost all the way out to the block on the yard (see attached diagram from Longridge). Was there a standard for where this arrangement would have been positioned when sails were not present, or is it just a matter of visual preference?
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Yes Popeye that is correct. Pretty much your first sentence in Paragraph 2 of your comment above. Could you explain what is mean by harbor furl? You used the term above. Have not heard that term before.
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All the ratlines on the port side complete! Wow that was a bunch of knots! Ratlines for the shroud sets on the starboard side of the mizzenmast still to go. Then on to braces, sheets, clews, tacks , etc. Anything but ratlines! 😊
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Always a pleasure Marc! Hope your move goes well. Since you are going into Manhattan will you be downsizing, or did you find a new place big enough for all your modeling goodies?
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Thanks again Popeye. I have learned a lot, I think, in just this short conversation. Hopefully the follow up questions I asked show I now have working understanding of this part of the rigging, and that you are a good instructor! 😊 From your analysis of and comments about the diagram I attached I am lead to believe if I follow it to a tee I will be good and fairly accurate. As I mentioned I am having this running debate with myself as to adding furled sails or no sails at all. Some builders here on MSW have strong feelings about this subject as to what makes the best display of the ship. My USS Constitution model is without sails. I have a couple ships displayed with full hand made sails, and a couple with a combination of furled and unfurled sails. My HMS Victory is going to be either no sails or all furled. I was trying to determine how to convert the rigging diagram I attached to rigging with furled sails. Your paragraph 2 above leaves me to believe either option would not require much change. If I do add furled sails I just need to decide to either detach the clews from the sail or leave them hanging out of the sail bundle. You make a very good point about a ship in harbor for a long period would un-bend the sails or harbor furl. That is the display feel I am planning for so maybe I should just go with no sails since I don’t know what harbor furl is anyway. Popeye where do you stand on sails for model ships? I definitely don’t use the plastic molded forms that come with the kit. Any time I add sails I sew them myself.
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Ok Popeye I have read through your tutorial and have a couple questions for my clarification, if you don’t mind. 1. In my diagram the tack for the lower sail (one of the F’s) is a block with the tack reeving through it with the ends of the tack going off to two belay points. In your Fig 194 the tack is a single line with the knot. I assume in the arrangement the single line passes through a block somewhere below before attaching to a belay point? Both methods are acceptable with there just being a difference in how the strop of the tack block would fastened? 2. To correct a major misunderstanding I had that I now realize from your explanation is that the clew of the sail is removed from this configuration when the sail is furled? Is that correct? I was thinking the rigging configuration was maintained to the corner of the sail regardless if furled or unfurled? Removing it seems inconvenient at best, if I understand correctly. When the crew was ordered to unfurl the sails did they then need to attach all the sail corners (clews) to the sheet and or sheet/tack rigging? 3. Also for clarification only. In the diagram I included the topmast sail sheet and the topgallant sail sheet end at a clew block (D and B). In this arrangement there is not a sheet block similar to the rigging at the mainsail? The sheet is just attached around the clew block rather than reeving through its own block which would be attached by rigging to the clew block? Do I have that right? Thanks again Popeye. Hope you don’t mind my asking for a bit of clarification. I think what I am gathering here is if I just follow the diagram I attached and leave furled sails off I should be good to go! 😊 Bill
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No Kevin I have not seen those and will need to check them out. I started a topic the other day titled: Proper Rigging of Sheets. Popeye is trying to help me understand how the combination of the sheet, tack, clewline and clew on the sail all come together if I plan to add sails either furled or unfurled. Have to admit I don’t quite have my head around it yet and am wondering if I do want accuracy if I should just leave the sails off.
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Thanks Popeye. I will read through your excellent tutorial several times to make sure I got it. As you said learning the proper names helps a lot.
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