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Jaager

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  1. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from tkay11 in Painting a ships hull with a copper and green look paint   
    If you go with paper and paint:
    depending on how you choose to do it, the plates can be painted as individuals or several sheets used and different shades of copper used - a tint added differently to each of multiple batches - a mild checkerboard.
    The blue or green should probably be used on the hull after the plates cover it.
     
    If you follow @Bob Cleek's suggestion of shellac as an adhesive - ethyl alcohol is a easy reverse gear and no residue -  probably the way to go.
    If you use PVA because you are OCD (like a lot of us)  isopropyl alcohol is the reverse-  but if the planking is bonded using PVA ( as it probably should be - CA is really ugly and a PITA as well )  the iso application done carefully.
     
    Air brush - theory only here -  if used -  no brush marks 
    There are two flavors of brush units
    single action - one button - on-off - air pressure controlled up stream  -straight forward action - probably does as much as we need - less expensive - probably easier to clean - 
    double action -  button effects the sort of spray - complicated - more practice necessary - the quality and thereby the expense is probably much more critical - if want to also take up detailing vans or other artwork, this may be what you want.
  2. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from tkay11 in Painting a ships hull with a copper and green look paint   
    Painting the whole sheet of paper and then using a guillotine type cutter looks to be as mistake proof and quick and dirty as it gets.  A knife and steel straight edge is less expensive, but introduces more chances of Parkinson's type twitches during a cut.
     
    Paper - thin but not flimsy is my thinking - acid free -
    I do not see any utility in putting paper over paint.  I have read of modelers who directly painted a hull doing plate sized patches -  which sounds like as much fun as hammering a nail thru my foot.
     
    As for this whole thin painted paper process-  It is my thinking Old Son, that you would be pretty much cutting the trail on this whole thing.   Others have probably done it, but for this site you would likely be the first.
    What we theoreticians are proposing is something that sounds likely to work and that solves the problems that the presently used methods struggle with.
    A chance for fame - as it were.
  3. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Painting a ships hull with a copper and green look paint   
    If you go with paper and paint:
    depending on how you choose to do it, the plates can be painted as individuals or several sheets used and different shades of copper used - a tint added differently to each of multiple batches - a mild checkerboard.
    The blue or green should probably be used on the hull after the plates cover it.
     
    If you follow @Bob Cleek's suggestion of shellac as an adhesive - ethyl alcohol is a easy reverse gear and no residue -  probably the way to go.
    If you use PVA because you are OCD (like a lot of us)  isopropyl alcohol is the reverse-  but if the planking is bonded using PVA ( as it probably should be - CA is really ugly and a PITA as well )  the iso application done carefully.
     
    Air brush - theory only here -  if used -  no brush marks 
    There are two flavors of brush units
    single action - one button - on-off - air pressure controlled up stream  -straight forward action - probably does as much as we need - less expensive - probably easier to clean - 
    double action -  button effects the sort of spray - complicated - more practice necessary - the quality and thereby the expense is probably much more critical - if want to also take up detailing vans or other artwork, this may be what you want.
  4. Thanks!
    Jaager got a reaction from Landlubber Mike in Painting a ships hull with a copper and green look paint   
    For something that is potentially the best of both worlds
     
    This system seems to offer the ability to turn paper (something archival) into actual copper
    and a chemically reactive material to allow customized areas of verdigris.
     
    Reactive Metallic Paints Metal Effects Reactive Metallic Paints are water base and contain real metal particles. These paints will tarnish naturally over time and when exposed to the elements. Metal Effects Patina Aging Solutions & Activators will speed up the oxidation process to create beautiful, authentic Patina, Baroque and Rusted Iron finishes on any paintable surface. Reactive Metallic Paints can be applied using a brush, roller or spray equipment and is suitable for interior/exterior surfaces.
     
    Modern Masters AM203-04 Metal Effects Primer , 4-Ounce , White $9.50 ($2.38/Fl Oz)
    Modern Masters ME149-06 Reactive Metallic Copper, 6-Ounce $19.99 ($3.33/Fl Oz)
    Modern Masters PA901-04 Aging Solution Green Patina, 4-Ounce $9.99 ($2.50/Fl Oz)
     Modern Masters PA902-04 Aging Solution Blue Patina, 4-Ounce $9.99 ($2.50/Fl Oz)
    (Amazon)
     
    An additional advantage is that by using paper, not only will the plates not pop off after a few years, it will be almost impossible to make the bottom look like it has contracted a severe case of Small Pox.
  5. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Painting a ships hull with a copper and green look paint   
    Painting the whole sheet of paper and then using a guillotine type cutter looks to be as mistake proof and quick and dirty as it gets.  A knife and steel straight edge is less expensive, but introduces more chances of Parkinson's type twitches during a cut.
     
    Paper - thin but not flimsy is my thinking - acid free -
    I do not see any utility in putting paper over paint.  I have read of modelers who directly painted a hull doing plate sized patches -  which sounds like as much fun as hammering a nail thru my foot.
     
    As for this whole thin painted paper process-  It is my thinking Old Son, that you would be pretty much cutting the trail on this whole thing.   Others have probably done it, but for this site you would likely be the first.
    What we theoreticians are proposing is something that sounds likely to work and that solves the problems that the presently used methods struggle with.
    A chance for fame - as it were.
  6. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in Painting a ships hull with a copper and green look paint   
    For something that is potentially the best of both worlds
     
    This system seems to offer the ability to turn paper (something archival) into actual copper
    and a chemically reactive material to allow customized areas of verdigris.
     
    Reactive Metallic Paints Metal Effects Reactive Metallic Paints are water base and contain real metal particles. These paints will tarnish naturally over time and when exposed to the elements. Metal Effects Patina Aging Solutions & Activators will speed up the oxidation process to create beautiful, authentic Patina, Baroque and Rusted Iron finishes on any paintable surface. Reactive Metallic Paints can be applied using a brush, roller or spray equipment and is suitable for interior/exterior surfaces.
     
    Modern Masters AM203-04 Metal Effects Primer , 4-Ounce , White $9.50 ($2.38/Fl Oz)
    Modern Masters ME149-06 Reactive Metallic Copper, 6-Ounce $19.99 ($3.33/Fl Oz)
    Modern Masters PA901-04 Aging Solution Green Patina, 4-Ounce $9.99 ($2.50/Fl Oz)
     Modern Masters PA902-04 Aging Solution Blue Patina, 4-Ounce $9.99 ($2.50/Fl Oz)
    (Amazon)
     
    An additional advantage is that by using paper, not only will the plates not pop off after a few years, it will be almost impossible to make the bottom look like it has contracted a severe case of Small Pox.
  7. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from robert952 in Painting a ships hull with a copper and green look paint   
    If you go with paper and paint:
    depending on how you choose to do it, the plates can be painted as individuals or several sheets used and different shades of copper used - a tint added differently to each of multiple batches - a mild checkerboard.
    The blue or green should probably be used on the hull after the plates cover it.
     
    If you follow @Bob Cleek's suggestion of shellac as an adhesive - ethyl alcohol is a easy reverse gear and no residue -  probably the way to go.
    If you use PVA because you are OCD (like a lot of us)  isopropyl alcohol is the reverse-  but if the planking is bonded using PVA ( as it probably should be - CA is really ugly and a PITA as well )  the iso application done carefully.
     
    Air brush - theory only here -  if used -  no brush marks 
    There are two flavors of brush units
    single action - one button - on-off - air pressure controlled up stream  -straight forward action - probably does as much as we need - less expensive - probably easier to clean - 
    double action -  button effects the sort of spray - complicated - more practice necessary - the quality and thereby the expense is probably much more critical - if want to also take up detailing vans or other artwork, this may be what you want.
  8. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from robert952 in Painting a ships hull with a copper and green look paint   
    Painting the whole sheet of paper and then using a guillotine type cutter looks to be as mistake proof and quick and dirty as it gets.  A knife and steel straight edge is less expensive, but introduces more chances of Parkinson's type twitches during a cut.
     
    Paper - thin but not flimsy is my thinking - acid free -
    I do not see any utility in putting paper over paint.  I have read of modelers who directly painted a hull doing plate sized patches -  which sounds like as much fun as hammering a nail thru my foot.
     
    As for this whole thin painted paper process-  It is my thinking Old Son, that you would be pretty much cutting the trail on this whole thing.   Others have probably done it, but for this site you would likely be the first.
    What we theoreticians are proposing is something that sounds likely to work and that solves the problems that the presently used methods struggle with.
    A chance for fame - as it were.
  9. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Painting a ships hull with a copper and green look paint   
    For something that is potentially the best of both worlds
     
    This system seems to offer the ability to turn paper (something archival) into actual copper
    and a chemically reactive material to allow customized areas of verdigris.
     
    Reactive Metallic Paints Metal Effects Reactive Metallic Paints are water base and contain real metal particles. These paints will tarnish naturally over time and when exposed to the elements. Metal Effects Patina Aging Solutions & Activators will speed up the oxidation process to create beautiful, authentic Patina, Baroque and Rusted Iron finishes on any paintable surface. Reactive Metallic Paints can be applied using a brush, roller or spray equipment and is suitable for interior/exterior surfaces.
     
    Modern Masters AM203-04 Metal Effects Primer , 4-Ounce , White $9.50 ($2.38/Fl Oz)
    Modern Masters ME149-06 Reactive Metallic Copper, 6-Ounce $19.99 ($3.33/Fl Oz)
    Modern Masters PA901-04 Aging Solution Green Patina, 4-Ounce $9.99 ($2.50/Fl Oz)
     Modern Masters PA902-04 Aging Solution Blue Patina, 4-Ounce $9.99 ($2.50/Fl Oz)
    (Amazon)
     
    An additional advantage is that by using paper, not only will the plates not pop off after a few years, it will be almost impossible to make the bottom look like it has contracted a severe case of Small Pox.
  10. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Getting frames laser cut?   
    With a table saw or bandsaw,  it is important to match the number of teeth with the stock thickness.  If there are too many teeth the gullets fill with sawdust before they exit.  Once the gullets are full the cutting edge becomes a rubbing edge.  From that point on there is mostly heat and perhaps a dulling that is greater than if the blade was removing wood the whole way.  A dull hot blade on a bandsaw snaps.  For a table saw blade it is 3-4 teeth in the cut.  For a bandsaw - a resaw blade is 3-4 TPI,  Bandsaw blades have a deeper gullet - I think.  Given that some saws advertise a depth of cut of 13" or more, the greater volume of gullet makes sense.
    To make an extrapolation:  a scroll saw blade may be subject to rules.  Fine blades do not seem to have much gullet at all.  If a scroll cut seems to take too long or the blades break more quickly than they ought,  going with a more coarse blade ? 
     
    Now really crap and poor quality plywood may have significant voids.  This would reduce the functional thickness of the stock.  A finer tooth blade may work better than the equation predicts.  But, an additional effect of using a POB mold cut from low density ply with visible air spaces is that the first layer of planking has an even worse bond and the already poor bond provided by end grain.  The whole process may go better if end grain and any voids were first treated with an injection of PVA,  but the PVA not allowed to pool on the surface (wiped smooth), and allowed to polymerize (set) (cure).   If CA is used to bond the first layer of planking,  a test will be wanted to determine if CA plays nice with PVA.
  11. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from robert952 in Painting a ships hull with a copper and green look paint   
    For something that is potentially the best of both worlds
     
    This system seems to offer the ability to turn paper (something archival) into actual copper
    and a chemically reactive material to allow customized areas of verdigris.
     
    Reactive Metallic Paints Metal Effects Reactive Metallic Paints are water base and contain real metal particles. These paints will tarnish naturally over time and when exposed to the elements. Metal Effects Patina Aging Solutions & Activators will speed up the oxidation process to create beautiful, authentic Patina, Baroque and Rusted Iron finishes on any paintable surface. Reactive Metallic Paints can be applied using a brush, roller or spray equipment and is suitable for interior/exterior surfaces.
     
    Modern Masters AM203-04 Metal Effects Primer , 4-Ounce , White $9.50 ($2.38/Fl Oz)
    Modern Masters ME149-06 Reactive Metallic Copper, 6-Ounce $19.99 ($3.33/Fl Oz)
    Modern Masters PA901-04 Aging Solution Green Patina, 4-Ounce $9.99 ($2.50/Fl Oz)
     Modern Masters PA902-04 Aging Solution Blue Patina, 4-Ounce $9.99 ($2.50/Fl Oz)
    (Amazon)
     
    An additional advantage is that by using paper, not only will the plates not pop off after a few years, it will be almost impossible to make the bottom look like it has contracted a severe case of Small Pox.
  12. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Getting frames laser cut?   
    Probably better if it did not tilt. 
    Once the piece is freed from the stock, another tool could be used to get a bevel and probably do a better job of it.  The end grain of plywood is messy to work with.
     
    A scroll saw blade has an unfortunate up/down action.  The blade up can lift the work.
     
    The only use that I have for my 9" bench bandsaw is to do scroll cutting.
    No up action.  I use a 1/4" blade - it lasts much longer than a 1/8" at only a slight loss in arc. A back and fill cut works as well as a continuous one.
    The blade has significant set - the kerf is more - the cut face is ragged - so not too close to the line. ( a sanding drum does a better job of finishing anyway)
    The mold could be 1/4" ply or 1/4" solid wood  as it is no problem for a bandsaw to cut
    A thicker mold => better planking support
    I replaced the guides with a Carter Stabilizer - the blade swings like a hinged door
     
    I bet that 1/4" Pine would work well as mold material.
     
  13. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Where to start?   
    OcCre HMS Beagle is 1:60.
    Cotton is not a fiber that can come close to scale sails as a fabric at 60 times smaller.
    No cloth fabric that is a practical choice will fit to scale.   You have to be willfully delusional to see the OcCre sails as scale realistic,  if academic and historically accurate is your standard,  but that is not the majority standard.
     
    The paper that is used as covering on aircraft models - one brand is SilkSpan - is more realistic.
    For a kit model, this is best done as a scratch addition.  It is not easily done well as an assembly line product.
    The cost of materials probably comes closer to $5 per model, when spread over the number of projects that the minimum size of each component will serve.   Of course, the cost of your labor will exceed $50, even if  minimum wage is the basis. 
     
    For most ship models,  if you do manage to sell it, the return would probably barely cover the cost of materials - if that.  It requires real artistic skill, an outside reputation, and ruthless efficiency plus economy to get any return on your labor.
     
    Plastic models are far more focused on fine details and an exacting finish than with a model made of wood.  Because it is wood,  if the original subject was also wood,  doing much more than what is minimally sufficient for a finish is lost to view and overpowered by the natural material.
     
  14. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in Where to start?   
    OcCre HMS Beagle is 1:60.
    Cotton is not a fiber that can come close to scale sails as a fabric at 60 times smaller.
    No cloth fabric that is a practical choice will fit to scale.   You have to be willfully delusional to see the OcCre sails as scale realistic,  if academic and historically accurate is your standard,  but that is not the majority standard.
     
    The paper that is used as covering on aircraft models - one brand is SilkSpan - is more realistic.
    For a kit model, this is best done as a scratch addition.  It is not easily done well as an assembly line product.
    The cost of materials probably comes closer to $5 per model, when spread over the number of projects that the minimum size of each component will serve.   Of course, the cost of your labor will exceed $50, even if  minimum wage is the basis. 
     
    For most ship models,  if you do manage to sell it, the return would probably barely cover the cost of materials - if that.  It requires real artistic skill, an outside reputation, and ruthless efficiency plus economy to get any return on your labor.
     
    Plastic models are far more focused on fine details and an exacting finish than with a model made of wood.  Because it is wood,  if the original subject was also wood,  doing much more than what is minimally sufficient for a finish is lost to view and overpowered by the natural material.
     
  15. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Ryland Craze in Getting frames laser cut?   
    Probably better if it did not tilt. 
    Once the piece is freed from the stock, another tool could be used to get a bevel and probably do a better job of it.  The end grain of plywood is messy to work with.
     
    A scroll saw blade has an unfortunate up/down action.  The blade up can lift the work.
     
    The only use that I have for my 9" bench bandsaw is to do scroll cutting.
    No up action.  I use a 1/4" blade - it lasts much longer than a 1/8" at only a slight loss in arc. A back and fill cut works as well as a continuous one.
    The blade has significant set - the kerf is more - the cut face is ragged - so not too close to the line. ( a sanding drum does a better job of finishing anyway)
    The mold could be 1/4" ply or 1/4" solid wood  as it is no problem for a bandsaw to cut
    A thicker mold => better planking support
    I replaced the guides with a Carter Stabilizer - the blade swings like a hinged door
     
    I bet that 1/4" Pine would work well as mold material.
     
  16. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Keith Black in Where to start?   
    OcCre HMS Beagle is 1:60.
    Cotton is not a fiber that can come close to scale sails as a fabric at 60 times smaller.
    No cloth fabric that is a practical choice will fit to scale.   You have to be willfully delusional to see the OcCre sails as scale realistic,  if academic and historically accurate is your standard,  but that is not the majority standard.
     
    The paper that is used as covering on aircraft models - one brand is SilkSpan - is more realistic.
    For a kit model, this is best done as a scratch addition.  It is not easily done well as an assembly line product.
    The cost of materials probably comes closer to $5 per model, when spread over the number of projects that the minimum size of each component will serve.   Of course, the cost of your labor will exceed $50, even if  minimum wage is the basis. 
     
    For most ship models,  if you do manage to sell it, the return would probably barely cover the cost of materials - if that.  It requires real artistic skill, an outside reputation, and ruthless efficiency plus economy to get any return on your labor.
     
    Plastic models are far more focused on fine details and an exacting finish than with a model made of wood.  Because it is wood,  if the original subject was also wood,  doing much more than what is minimally sufficient for a finish is lost to view and overpowered by the natural material.
     
  17. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Tuning Copper sheathing   
    It also may be a typo -  maybe turned up was intended?  Indicating that the plates were to be attached to the keel?
  18. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Call for Woollen blankets in UK for Sutton Hoo ship replica   
    To focus on the part of this that I find to be worth real interest - How much of it is good for building a serious model? ....
    So Sutton Ho is from between 400 and 800 - given the burial mound bit - probably closer to the 400 part?
    There are no definitive lines.   Any plans available from the current operation would be a guess? 
    Yet another replica aimed at tourists and not advertising that it is just a likely to have as much wrong as correct?
     
    The construction technology is invaluable from an academic perspective.
  19. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Beef Wellington in Tuning Copper sheathing   
    It also may be a typo -  maybe turned up was intended?  Indicating that the plates were to be attached to the keel?
  20. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from druxey in Call for Woollen blankets in UK for Sutton Hoo ship replica   
    To focus on the part of this that I find to be worth real interest - How much of it is good for building a serious model? ....
    So Sutton Ho is from between 400 and 800 - given the burial mound bit - probably closer to the 400 part?
    There are no definitive lines.   Any plans available from the current operation would be a guess? 
    Yet another replica aimed at tourists and not advertising that it is just a likely to have as much wrong as correct?
     
    The construction technology is invaluable from an academic perspective.
  21. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from John Ruy in Tuning Copper sheathing   
    It also may be a typo -  maybe turned up was intended?  Indicating that the plates were to be attached to the keel?
  22. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Tuning Copper sheathing   
    It also may be a typo -  maybe turned up was intended?  Indicating that the plates were to be attached to the keel?
  23. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from druxey in Tuning Copper sheathing   
    It also may be a typo -  maybe turned up was intended?  Indicating that the plates were to be attached to the keel?
  24. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Bob Cleek in Call for Woollen blankets in UK for Sutton Hoo ship replica   
    To focus on the part of this that I find to be worth real interest - How much of it is good for building a serious model? ....
    So Sutton Ho is from between 400 and 800 - given the burial mound bit - probably closer to the 400 part?
    There are no definitive lines.   Any plans available from the current operation would be a guess? 
    Yet another replica aimed at tourists and not advertising that it is just a likely to have as much wrong as correct?
     
    The construction technology is invaluable from an academic perspective.
  25. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Getting frames laser cut?   
    I am guessing that you will be doing this POB?
    If so, then what you are naming "the frames"  are named "bulkheads" in the POB world.  What they actually are = moulds or molds.   
     
    Laser cutting makes sense if you are setting up to make 100 identical kits and want a convenient and economical way to get multiple identical parts.  Unless you are doing the laser programing for computer reasons instead of just tool to get model parts,  the time spent is difficult to justify to make one copy.
     
    If you do not have a motorized scroll saw, for one model and a hull that is not likely to have a lot of moulds, a hand operated fret saw or coping saw will do an excellent job of freeing the moulds from a sheet of wood or plywood.  Sanding blocks will get you to the line.  You can also use thicker stock than a laser will want to vaporize.
     
    Get the patterns by tracing what is on the plans if 1:1 or use a scanner -  If the scale is to be different, there are Xerox machines that reduce or enlarge -  or scan the plans of the moulds into your computer and use a drawing program to change to scale and print the patterns out.  PS in the cloud has a <one month free trial if you do not own the necessary program.
     
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