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Jaager

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  1. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in New workshop in the garage.   
    You could keep kits in your conditioned environment.   Work on the model in the garage and take the parts back into the house with you.
     
    Any tools that are iron or steel - keep them coated with conservators wax - Renaissance Wax here. 
  2. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from thibaultron in Plywood substitute   
    A picture of what part has been damaged would allow for more creative suggestions.
    There is nothing magic about any wood.  We all have our favorite species, but most of us who do are scratch builders or kit builders who are painting with wood.
    I was imagining the pseudo deck beam portion of a typical mold as being the part.  The hull shape being acceptable and the beam being abraded too much.  In that case, it would be covered by the deck, so how it looks would be irrelevant.
     
    Even clear Pine would work.
    For a one off plywood replacement, you could use what is about the best quality plywood available = aircraft plywood from a hobby store.  In bulk, it is expensive.  For spot work, the expense is not significant.   With a variety of thicknesses, a sum of what is available can get you where you want to be.
     
    An advantage of wooden ship models is that all of the parts are easily replaced by other wood.  Unlike synthetic plastics,  it grows in trees.  The kit mfg is just supplying an easy path.  With a bit more work, any of it can be placed by material that is right at hand.  A beginner just lacks the tools and experience to do this.  Unless you reside on an asteroid, there is probably someone nearby who does have the tools and experience to help you with general woodworking.
  3. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in finished or kit form   
    Based on history, for about any kit,  the only profit to be had is in the personal experience found in its assembly (and for plastic)  the finish applied.  For plastic, the skill and challenge is in the surface presentation.  For wood, the finish is just something that has to be done.   The challenge is in the fabrication.   With even an elaborate  wooden kit, an excellently build model would probably only sell for what was the original retail cost.  The hundreds or even thousands of hours expended on the completion is an uncompensated donation.
     
    About the only ones who value a ship model are those who build them,   Anyone in the 1% who would pay top dollar would also want something unique - scratch built by a name brand modeler.   Most anyone else cannot cannot see the difference between an actual ship model and a starving artist decorator kitch piece of junk.
  4. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in finished or kit form   
    Based on history, for about any kit,  the only profit to be had is in the personal experience found in its assembly (and for plastic)  the finish applied.  For plastic, the skill and challenge is in the surface presentation.  For wood, the finish is just something that has to be done.   The challenge is in the fabrication.   With even an elaborate  wooden kit, an excellently build model would probably only sell for what was the original retail cost.  The hundreds or even thousands of hours expended on the completion is an uncompensated donation.
     
    About the only ones who value a ship model are those who build them,   Anyone in the 1% who would pay top dollar would also want something unique - scratch built by a name brand modeler.   Most anyone else cannot cannot see the difference between an actual ship model and a starving artist decorator kitch piece of junk.
  5. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Dave_E in finished or kit form   
    Based on history, for about any kit,  the only profit to be had is in the personal experience found in its assembly (and for plastic)  the finish applied.  For plastic, the skill and challenge is in the surface presentation.  For wood, the finish is just something that has to be done.   The challenge is in the fabrication.   With even an elaborate  wooden kit, an excellently build model would probably only sell for what was the original retail cost.  The hundreds or even thousands of hours expended on the completion is an uncompensated donation.
     
    About the only ones who value a ship model are those who build them,   Anyone in the 1% who would pay top dollar would also want something unique - scratch built by a name brand modeler.   Most anyone else cannot cannot see the difference between an actual ship model and a starving artist decorator kitch piece of junk.
  6. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Ryland Craze in finished or kit form   
    Based on history, for about any kit,  the only profit to be had is in the personal experience found in its assembly (and for plastic)  the finish applied.  For plastic, the skill and challenge is in the surface presentation.  For wood, the finish is just something that has to be done.   The challenge is in the fabrication.   With even an elaborate  wooden kit, an excellently build model would probably only sell for what was the original retail cost.  The hundreds or even thousands of hours expended on the completion is an uncompensated donation.
     
    About the only ones who value a ship model are those who build them,   Anyone in the 1% who would pay top dollar would also want something unique - scratch built by a name brand modeler.   Most anyone else cannot cannot see the difference between an actual ship model and a starving artist decorator kitch piece of junk.
  7. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Chook in finished or kit form   
    Based on history, for about any kit,  the only profit to be had is in the personal experience found in its assembly (and for plastic)  the finish applied.  For plastic, the skill and challenge is in the surface presentation.  For wood, the finish is just something that has to be done.   The challenge is in the fabrication.   With even an elaborate  wooden kit, an excellently build model would probably only sell for what was the original retail cost.  The hundreds or even thousands of hours expended on the completion is an uncompensated donation.
     
    About the only ones who value a ship model are those who build them,   Anyone in the 1% who would pay top dollar would also want something unique - scratch built by a name brand modeler.   Most anyone else cannot cannot see the difference between an actual ship model and a starving artist decorator kitch piece of junk.
  8. Like
    Jaager reacted to allanyed in Hi From Bury Lancashire.   
    Welcome to MSW John.  It may be too late but you might consider setting it aside for now and starting with one or more of the high quality three vessel starter series from Model Shipways designed by David Antscherl.  These are very accurately designed and will teach you great techniques and habits rather than the opposite.
     
    It is a blessing and a curse, but you now have over 42,000 potential teachers and advisors here at MSW.
     
    Allan
  9. Like
    Jaager reacted to allanyed in Rigging on ship versus off   
    Mark,
    What ship are you working on?  Rigging buntline, lift, and similar blocks on the yards is definitely a great way to go.  Rigging shrouds and ratlines off the ship,,,,,, no advantages and a lot of disadvantages.  There are good books on rigging as well as dozens of logs here that show good techniques.   Look at Ed Tosti's build log on Young America as one of many examples.
    Allan
  10. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Ten kits. Where to start.   
    Mike,
     
    Your list reminded me of a trail that I gave thought to when I was wading into this.
     
    To continue with your theme but broaden your possibilities, skill, and confidence,
    The deadrise boats, skipjacks, and log canoes of the Bay can be a side branch investigation.
    These were built by backyard builders, not schooled in the art.
    There is a paperback by Steve Rogers covering a skipjack - the methods are a bit eccentric compared to the methods done here.
    H.I. Chapelle wrote a paperback - "Notes on..."  that is available second hand.
    Ben Lankford  wrote a paperback to accompany the model of the Willie J Bennett that he developed for Model Shipways, that may possibly be found second hand.
    The S.I. has skipjack plans for sale.  The Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum used to sell actual blue prints for various Bay fishing craft.
     
    My point is that this branch is a very approachable area for a first time scratch build.  It does not require a second mortgage to obtain the needed tools and wood.  It just requires and interest in the subject.   
     
    You have been wise in your path so far.  If you are tempted by the flash of lots of guns, liners, frigates, clippers, etc.  be mindful: that way lays a time sink and possible quicksand.  When you know, when you do not have to ask if you should,  that is when those can be essayed with confidence.
  11. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Ten kits. Where to start.   
    Mark,
    I will take on the role of curmudgeon for this. and advise this:
     
    Take good care of and store your collection carefully.  You may wind up selling off many of them.
     
    Two of the camps here are
    1) kits as a gateway to scratch building (a small group)
    2) kits as an end in themselves 
    If you catch bug number 1  ....
    If you are one for whom what is popular or sticking to the well trod paths are things to be avoided......
     
    The OcCre kit is probably best kept for last.  Not up to the quality of the others  and a full set of 3 masts and all that rigging plus lots of guns.
     
    The MS Flying Fish is a 1850's era large clipper,  The kit is 1:96 scale.  There is a lot of detailed rigging and a scale that requires art and finesse to do well.  It is a real challenge to do well.
     
    The hull of the whaleboat is  just a step beyond what you are doing.  This kit is about the equipment details.  There is a small book by a former NRJ editor.  There are articles in the CDs in probably all three journals that are for sale here.
     
    For the fishing vessels,  HIC wrote a book that provides graduate level details.
     
    For the solid hulls,  check out StewMac for good quality rasps.  I doubt that a POB kit mold is sturdy enough  for a rasp.
     
    If you want your expenditure to pay off, try to avoid the historian,  topic specialization, and explore new paths bugs.
     
     
  12. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Dorian Ship c. 1300 BC by shadowcaster - Scale 1:100   
    This not intended to high jack.  It is fun to take a sidebar for  a wider view of this project.  It is interesting and unique.  It is also a bit of an exploration of the taproot of watercraft evolution - at least in Europe - in the place where most of the early action was. 
     
    To speculate:
    The pacific islanders used outriggers to add stability.   The illustrations at the beginning had me thinking "outrigger" for this.
     
    This looks like a scaled up version of a dugout - which seems like the logical progression.
    In the Bay, early backyard builders constructed "log canoes".   There was still old growth timber - tall trees with a significant diameter.
    The vessels were not the sort of shape that comes to mind as canoe the personal watercraft.    The length was constrained by maximum log length, so they were not as long as the Med vessel here.  They had a greater beam to length ratio.  They were made of 3 or 5 logs joined side by side.  The thickness would make the hull resistant to puncture.  
    My thought with this is that Dorian vessel would be maybe something like three logs butted end to end at the center line and two overlapping rows on either side.   As the large trees were all cut down,  I can see how the hard won skills in joinery and waterproofing would evolve to using split out planks to replace the logs. 
  13. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from bruce d in Groove for Garboard strake   
    A floating vessel is like a living thing.  It is subject to many forces that cause the structural parts to flex, rack, and twist.  The keel does not always move the same as the bottom planking.  The seam where the garboard plank meets the keel needs to be as strong and leak proof as can be had.  
    A static model is only subject to micro movements.  As long as the joint of the garboard with keel looks as though it is secure and water tight, it does not need to be a rabbet.   
    The rabbet is a "thing" with scratch builders whose object is to mimic actual practice.  With a POB or full planked solid or POF hull, a straight butt joint runs the danger of separating with an unsightly gap if time and temp and humidity flux acts in that way.  "You pays your money and takes your chances."
     
    A hint for the garboard:  the edge that meets the keel, stem and sternpost is a straight line from tip to tip.  Any wood removal is done on the outer edge.  Removing wood from the edge where it curves up the stem gives it the wrong shape.  It really messes up the rest of the bow planking. 
  14. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Groove for Garboard strake   
    A floating vessel is like a living thing.  It is subject to many forces that cause the structural parts to flex, rack, and twist.  The keel does not always move the same as the bottom planking.  The seam where the garboard plank meets the keel needs to be as strong and leak proof as can be had.  
    A static model is only subject to micro movements.  As long as the joint of the garboard with keel looks as though it is secure and water tight, it does not need to be a rabbet.   
    The rabbet is a "thing" with scratch builders whose object is to mimic actual practice.  With a POB or full planked solid or POF hull, a straight butt joint runs the danger of separating with an unsightly gap if time and temp and humidity flux acts in that way.  "You pays your money and takes your chances."
     
    A hint for the garboard:  the edge that meets the keel, stem and sternpost is a straight line from tip to tip.  Any wood removal is done on the outer edge.  Removing wood from the edge where it curves up the stem gives it the wrong shape.  It really messes up the rest of the bow planking. 
  15. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in Groove for Garboard strake   
    A floating vessel is like a living thing.  It is subject to many forces that cause the structural parts to flex, rack, and twist.  The keel does not always move the same as the bottom planking.  The seam where the garboard plank meets the keel needs to be as strong and leak proof as can be had.  
    A static model is only subject to micro movements.  As long as the joint of the garboard with keel looks as though it is secure and water tight, it does not need to be a rabbet.   
    The rabbet is a "thing" with scratch builders whose object is to mimic actual practice.  With a POB or full planked solid or POF hull, a straight butt joint runs the danger of separating with an unsightly gap if time and temp and humidity flux acts in that way.  "You pays your money and takes your chances."
     
    A hint for the garboard:  the edge that meets the keel, stem and sternpost is a straight line from tip to tip.  Any wood removal is done on the outer edge.  Removing wood from the edge where it curves up the stem gives it the wrong shape.  It really messes up the rest of the bow planking. 
  16. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Gregory in Groove for Garboard strake   
    A floating vessel is like a living thing.  It is subject to many forces that cause the structural parts to flex, rack, and twist.  The keel does not always move the same as the bottom planking.  The seam where the garboard plank meets the keel needs to be as strong and leak proof as can be had.  
    A static model is only subject to micro movements.  As long as the joint of the garboard with keel looks as though it is secure and water tight, it does not need to be a rabbet.   
    The rabbet is a "thing" with scratch builders whose object is to mimic actual practice.  With a POB or full planked solid or POF hull, a straight butt joint runs the danger of separating with an unsightly gap if time and temp and humidity flux acts in that way.  "You pays your money and takes your chances."
     
    A hint for the garboard:  the edge that meets the keel, stem and sternpost is a straight line from tip to tip.  Any wood removal is done on the outer edge.  Removing wood from the edge where it curves up the stem gives it the wrong shape.  It really messes up the rest of the bow planking. 
  17. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from hollowneck in SeaWatch Books is Open!   
    Both books in Mike's newsletter sound like they will be winners. 
    It is a win for all of us that he could get Grant Walker back on board with the Annapolis project.
  18. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in SeaWatch Books is Open!   
    Both books in Mike's newsletter sound like they will be winners. 
    It is a win for all of us that he could get Grant Walker back on board with the Annapolis project.
  19. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from druxey in SeaWatch Books is Open!   
    Both books in Mike's newsletter sound like they will be winners. 
    It is a win for all of us that he could get Grant Walker back on board with the Annapolis project.
  20. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Ryland Craze in SeaWatch Books is Open!   
    Both books in Mike's newsletter sound like they will be winners. 
    It is a win for all of us that he could get Grant Walker back on board with the Annapolis project.
  21. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from flying_dutchman2 in Life long book collection for sale   
    There is a sort of Catch 22 involved.
    Anyone interested would already have their own library. Buying duplicates, especially at near retail?
    A beginner?,  not unless they are foolishly rich.
    Books of the sort in question are not an investment.
     
    When my number comes up, I figure that a bequest that my library is kept as a whole will also require a substantial trust be included to maintain it as such. 
  22. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from bridgman in Announcing the Model Ship World Ship Kit Database Project   
    The site admin would be who probably has the answer to this question.
    It is in the outside sponsor link section.  So even now it is a "relying of the kindness of strangers" presence.
     
    This question is an irresistible  opportunity to wax philosophical.  
     
    The database seems to have been a solo project.  A gift from a then undergrad for whom the demands of life made continuing it impractical.  It has been 2 years since he was last here.  If he follows the usual pattern,  he will be back to serious ship modeling in 30-40 years.  
    It is a useful resource.  Even more useful if more data such as quality and accuracy were added.   Value judgements need an unbiased and objective filter.
    This would be a lot of work.  With the elimination of slavery, about the only way to make the effort worthwhile is to pay enough to make it attractive.  This is not a pay site.  If it was a pay site,  the forum could be mined to produce a FAQ that would totally eclipse any how-to book.
     
    Seeing a need is a fairly common occurrence.  Having the skill and enthusiasm to begin to fill the need happens from time to time.   Maintaining the initial enthusiasm beyond the initiation when the reward is the thanks of those served is a fantasy.   The degree of masochism required would have to come from a mind that did not have the capacity  to do the job to begin with.  The specie reward factor is unrealistic.   If evidence is wanted,  just check out how few of the members here are also members of the NRG.
  23. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Ryland Craze in Announcing the Model Ship World Ship Kit Database Project   
    The site admin would be who probably has the answer to this question.
    It is in the outside sponsor link section.  So even now it is a "relying of the kindness of strangers" presence.
     
    This question is an irresistible  opportunity to wax philosophical.  
     
    The database seems to have been a solo project.  A gift from a then undergrad for whom the demands of life made continuing it impractical.  It has been 2 years since he was last here.  If he follows the usual pattern,  he will be back to serious ship modeling in 30-40 years.  
    It is a useful resource.  Even more useful if more data such as quality and accuracy were added.   Value judgements need an unbiased and objective filter.
    This would be a lot of work.  With the elimination of slavery, about the only way to make the effort worthwhile is to pay enough to make it attractive.  This is not a pay site.  If it was a pay site,  the forum could be mined to produce a FAQ that would totally eclipse any how-to book.
     
    Seeing a need is a fairly common occurrence.  Having the skill and enthusiasm to begin to fill the need happens from time to time.   Maintaining the initial enthusiasm beyond the initiation when the reward is the thanks of those served is a fantasy.   The degree of masochism required would have to come from a mind that did not have the capacity  to do the job to begin with.  The specie reward factor is unrealistic.   If evidence is wanted,  just check out how few of the members here are also members of the NRG.
  24. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Announcing the Model Ship World Ship Kit Database Project   
    The site admin would be who probably has the answer to this question.
    It is in the outside sponsor link section.  So even now it is a "relying of the kindness of strangers" presence.
     
    This question is an irresistible  opportunity to wax philosophical.  
     
    The database seems to have been a solo project.  A gift from a then undergrad for whom the demands of life made continuing it impractical.  It has been 2 years since he was last here.  If he follows the usual pattern,  he will be back to serious ship modeling in 30-40 years.  
    It is a useful resource.  Even more useful if more data such as quality and accuracy were added.   Value judgements need an unbiased and objective filter.
    This would be a lot of work.  With the elimination of slavery, about the only way to make the effort worthwhile is to pay enough to make it attractive.  This is not a pay site.  If it was a pay site,  the forum could be mined to produce a FAQ that would totally eclipse any how-to book.
     
    Seeing a need is a fairly common occurrence.  Having the skill and enthusiasm to begin to fill the need happens from time to time.   Maintaining the initial enthusiasm beyond the initiation when the reward is the thanks of those served is a fantasy.   The degree of masochism required would have to come from a mind that did not have the capacity  to do the job to begin with.  The specie reward factor is unrealistic.   If evidence is wanted,  just check out how few of the members here are also members of the NRG.
  25. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Ten kits. Where to start.   
    Mike,
     
    Your list reminded me of a trail that I gave thought to when I was wading into this.
     
    To continue with your theme but broaden your possibilities, skill, and confidence,
    The deadrise boats, skipjacks, and log canoes of the Bay can be a side branch investigation.
    These were built by backyard builders, not schooled in the art.
    There is a paperback by Steve Rogers covering a skipjack - the methods are a bit eccentric compared to the methods done here.
    H.I. Chapelle wrote a paperback - "Notes on..."  that is available second hand.
    Ben Lankford  wrote a paperback to accompany the model of the Willie J Bennett that he developed for Model Shipways, that may possibly be found second hand.
    The S.I. has skipjack plans for sale.  The Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum used to sell actual blue prints for various Bay fishing craft.
     
    My point is that this branch is a very approachable area for a first time scratch build.  It does not require a second mortgage to obtain the needed tools and wood.  It just requires and interest in the subject.   
     
    You have been wise in your path so far.  If you are tempted by the flash of lots of guns, liners, frigates, clippers, etc.  be mindful: that way lays a time sink and possible quicksand.  When you know, when you do not have to ask if you should,  that is when those can be essayed with confidence.
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