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Jaager

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  1. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Mark P in Historical Teachers of the Modeling Craft: Davis vs Underhill   
    It helps to have some perspective about what the hull construction methods were before they published.  They cracked open a new world, but both were grounded in vessels well after 1860.  They are a very dim light into how vessels before 1860 were built.  I consider them a general inspiration, but the specifics for vessels from the real age of sail are best obtained elsewhere.
    Davis came from WWI emergency wooden hull construction that was an adaptation of steel engineering techniques back to wood background.  It has only the most general similarities with the then lost evolution of traditional hull construction.
    They are both best seen as an important but small part of a now very large buffet of information. 
    Both Petrejus and Longridge should be added to your canon.
  2. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from AlleyCat in Help with pieces and parts   
    I did not do a survey of my references, but I checked HASN  ( History of the American Sailing Navy - H.I. Chapelle ).
    There are several examples of small schooner - brigantine sized vessels with a swivel cannon - centerline and midship. 
    For a revenue enforcement,  19th century pirate suppression, and interfering with slave smuggling as a job description for a vessel, that would be sufficient fire power. Not enough weight to be a danger in a blow and also allow for a shallow draft.  
    One of those may give you an overall look inspiration.  The up close details - I am drawing a blank on details in a single source.
    There may be details that could be adapted from AOTS HMS Beagle for some basics -  but Beagle was English, a tad later, larger, and more sophisticated.
     
    Constructo  may have even used an HIC plan as a starting point for their rif.  You could look at HASN as a catalog for ideas to individualize your build back to something on display there.
  3. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Historical Teachers of the Modeling Craft: Davis vs Underhill   
    It helps to have some perspective about what the hull construction methods were before they published.  They cracked open a new world, but both were grounded in vessels well after 1860.  They are a very dim light into how vessels before 1860 were built.  I consider them a general inspiration, but the specifics for vessels from the real age of sail are best obtained elsewhere.
    Davis came from WWI emergency wooden hull construction that was an adaptation of steel engineering techniques back to wood background.  It has only the most general similarities with the then lost evolution of traditional hull construction.
    They are both best seen as an important but small part of a now very large buffet of information. 
    Both Petrejus and Longridge should be added to your canon.
  4. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from thibaultron in Historical Teachers of the Modeling Craft: Davis vs Underhill   
    It helps to have some perspective about what the hull construction methods were before they published.  They cracked open a new world, but both were grounded in vessels well after 1860.  They are a very dim light into how vessels before 1860 were built.  I consider them a general inspiration, but the specifics for vessels from the real age of sail are best obtained elsewhere.
    Davis came from WWI emergency wooden hull construction that was an adaptation of steel engineering techniques back to wood background.  It has only the most general similarities with the then lost evolution of traditional hull construction.
    They are both best seen as an important but small part of a now very large buffet of information. 
    Both Petrejus and Longridge should be added to your canon.
  5. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Help with pieces and parts   
    I did not do a survey of my references, but I checked HASN  ( History of the American Sailing Navy - H.I. Chapelle ).
    There are several examples of small schooner - brigantine sized vessels with a swivel cannon - centerline and midship. 
    For a revenue enforcement,  19th century pirate suppression, and interfering with slave smuggling as a job description for a vessel, that would be sufficient fire power. Not enough weight to be a danger in a blow and also allow for a shallow draft.  
    One of those may give you an overall look inspiration.  The up close details - I am drawing a blank on details in a single source.
    There may be details that could be adapted from AOTS HMS Beagle for some basics -  but Beagle was English, a tad later, larger, and more sophisticated.
     
    Constructo  may have even used an HIC plan as a starting point for their rif.  You could look at HASN as a catalog for ideas to individualize your build back to something on display there.
  6. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Meriadoc Brandybuck in HMS Tiger 1747 by Siggi52 - 1:48 - 60 gun ship from NMM plans   
    Siggi,
     
    Recently here, I think it was pointed out that mast wedges were only used on one deck.  If true, I would think that the highest deck exposed to weather would be where they were placed.
    It may serve us to have a definitive ruling on this point.
     
  7. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from DaveBaxt in Sanding Sealer - when/how to use it   
    These terms are often used in a fast and loose manner with no anchor to what they really mean, so some posts can be confusing.
     
    I think these are functionally precise definitions:
     
    A sanding sealer, or sand-n-sealer -  a clear and thick mixture with micro particles -  the main use is as a base coat on furniture built using open pore wood species such as Oak, Walnut, Ash...   It fills the open pores so that when viewed at an oblique angle, the final surface appears to be glass smooth.
    Opinion:  it is too thick for scale use.  Open pore wood is best not used at all on scale models if the wood is to be clear finished.  There are other ways to fill pores before painting.
     
    A primer is generally a 50% diluted clear material intended to soak in deeply and limit any additional material layers to being surface only.  The traditional primer is half strength shellac.  It is easy to apply, easy to undo, quick to dry, low cost, and compatible with most any other materials applied over it.
    If an clear oil finish is the goal, half strength Tung oil can be its primer coat or I am guessing half strength Linseed oil will serve as as its primer.  Both would want additional time to polymerize before being covered over.  50% shellac is probably more cost effective as a primer for these. 
    Shellac is alcohol based and the oils are organic solvent based.  They do not raise wood grain.
    Paint can be its own primer, it just requires more coats to get a dense enough surface layer.  If the paint is water based, the surface may need fine sanding to remove any raised grain.
     
    A dye is a monomolecular solution of a pigment that soaks into wood and changes its color.  It does not change the surface.  It does not obscure wood grain.  If anything, it increases the contrast,  This is not necessarily a wonderful thing on a scale model, so having grain with lower contrast is a deciding factor for the choice of wood species if it is to be clear finished.
    Dyes come water based and alcohol based.  The water based dye soaks in more deeply, but the first application raises wood grain unless a dilute PVA/water solution is used first and then sanded when dry.  The alcohol based dye does not raise grain and on a model, any effect that a deeper water dye penetration may provide is probably too slight to be noticed, so alcohol based is probably the better choice.   No primer effect with either is there.
     
    A stain is a suspension of pigment particles in a solution with a polymerizing binder.  This is also the definition of paint.  The pigments are wood colored and some commercial products may also contain a dye so that it can advertise that it penetrates.  
    Opinion:  on a model, if it is wood that needs a stain before clear finish it would serve you better to replace this wood species with one that needs no pore filling or grain hiding with a semi-transparent paint - which is what a stain is.  The purpose of a stain is to try to make a low quality wood appear to be a high quality wood ona piece of economy furniture.
  8. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in HMS Tiger 1747 by Siggi52 - 1:48 - 60 gun ship from NMM plans   
    Siggi,
     
    Recently here, I think it was pointed out that mast wedges were only used on one deck.  If true, I would think that the highest deck exposed to weather would be where they were placed.
    It may serve us to have a definitive ruling on this point.
     
  9. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Sanding Sealer - when/how to use it   
    These terms are often used in a fast and loose manner with no anchor to what they really mean, so some posts can be confusing.
     
    I think these are functionally precise definitions:
     
    A sanding sealer, or sand-n-sealer -  a clear and thick mixture with micro particles -  the main use is as a base coat on furniture built using open pore wood species such as Oak, Walnut, Ash...   It fills the open pores so that when viewed at an oblique angle, the final surface appears to be glass smooth.
    Opinion:  it is too thick for scale use.  Open pore wood is best not used at all on scale models if the wood is to be clear finished.  There are other ways to fill pores before painting.
     
    A primer is generally a 50% diluted clear material intended to soak in deeply and limit any additional material layers to being surface only.  The traditional primer is half strength shellac.  It is easy to apply, easy to undo, quick to dry, low cost, and compatible with most any other materials applied over it.
    If an clear oil finish is the goal, half strength Tung oil can be its primer coat or I am guessing half strength Linseed oil will serve as as its primer.  Both would want additional time to polymerize before being covered over.  50% shellac is probably more cost effective as a primer for these. 
    Shellac is alcohol based and the oils are organic solvent based.  They do not raise wood grain.
    Paint can be its own primer, it just requires more coats to get a dense enough surface layer.  If the paint is water based, the surface may need fine sanding to remove any raised grain.
     
    A dye is a monomolecular solution of a pigment that soaks into wood and changes its color.  It does not change the surface.  It does not obscure wood grain.  If anything, it increases the contrast,  This is not necessarily a wonderful thing on a scale model, so having grain with lower contrast is a deciding factor for the choice of wood species if it is to be clear finished.
    Dyes come water based and alcohol based.  The water based dye soaks in more deeply, but the first application raises wood grain unless a dilute PVA/water solution is used first and then sanded when dry.  The alcohol based dye does not raise grain and on a model, any effect that a deeper water dye penetration may provide is probably too slight to be noticed, so alcohol based is probably the better choice.   No primer effect with either is there.
     
    A stain is a suspension of pigment particles in a solution with a polymerizing binder.  This is also the definition of paint.  The pigments are wood colored and some commercial products may also contain a dye so that it can advertise that it penetrates.  
    Opinion:  on a model, if it is wood that needs a stain before clear finish it would serve you better to replace this wood species with one that needs no pore filling or grain hiding with a semi-transparent paint - which is what a stain is.  The purpose of a stain is to try to make a low quality wood appear to be a high quality wood ona piece of economy furniture.
  10. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from FriedClams in HMS Tiger 1747 by Siggi52 - 1:48 - 60 gun ship from NMM plans   
    Another reason for the absence of rails could be that if temporary or situational the addition on a model would not serve much purpose. 
    If the intended audience was fellow navy they would know already and rails would be fragile clutter on a model.
  11. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Siggi52 in HMS Tiger 1747 by Siggi52 - 1:48 - 60 gun ship from NMM plans   
    Another reason for the absence of rails could be that if temporary or situational the addition on a model would not serve much purpose. 
    If the intended audience was fellow navy they would know already and rails would be fragile clutter on a model.
  12. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from bruce d in HMS Tiger 1747 by Siggi52 - 1:48 - 60 gun ship from NMM plans   
    Another reason for the absence of rails could be that if temporary or situational the addition on a model would not serve much purpose. 
    If the intended audience was fellow navy they would know already and rails would be fragile clutter on a model.
  13. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in HMS Tiger 1747 by Siggi52 - 1:48 - 60 gun ship from NMM plans   
    Another reason for the absence of rails could be that if temporary or situational the addition on a model would not serve much purpose. 
    If the intended audience was fellow navy they would know already and rails would be fragile clutter on a model.
  14. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from FrankWouts in HMS Prince by pirozzi - Amati - 1:64 - Original 1978 Kit by Vince P.   
    Pardon the broken record on this, 
    The logo does not look familiar, so this may not be the kit.
    There was a kit for HMS Prince where the historical keel length was used for length of the whole model keel.
    At the time of HMS Prince the given keel length was "touch" - which is a bit shorter.  It made the open main deck a bit crowded and the overall hull a bit squat looking.
     
    A repair would be easy = patch in a additional length at the join and duplicate the dead flat mould.
  15. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Metal sanding Disc 1.25"   
    I can get you close with Dura-Grit
    https://duragrit.com/Carbide-Mushroom-Shaping-Wheel.html
  16. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Metal sanding Disc 1.25"   
    I can get you close with Dura-Grit
    https://duragrit.com/Carbide-Mushroom-Shaping-Wheel.html
  17. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from EricWilliamMarshall in Metal sanding Disc 1.25"   
    I can get you close with Dura-Grit
    https://duragrit.com/Carbide-Mushroom-Shaping-Wheel.html
  18. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from modeller_masa in How can I copy the shape of the left hull onto the right side?   
    Well, the next step up is to forego the spine and molds altogether.  Make the mold substitute a permanent part and just join up the sections.  But each pattern and each section would be the whole cross section /station.  The actual keel then goes last.  
    Another part is that no baseboard is needed. 
  19. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in How can I copy the shape of the left hull onto the right side?   
    Well, the next step up is to forego the spine and molds altogether.  Make the mold substitute a permanent part and just join up the sections.  But each pattern and each section would be the whole cross section /station.  The actual keel then goes last.  
    Another part is that no baseboard is needed. 
  20. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in How can I copy the shape of the left hull onto the right side?   
    What you want is for them to be identical and precise.   Accuracy is secondary as long as the whole is internally consistent.
     
    Scan the mold patterns from the plans.  Open the scan in a raster based drawing program.  Adjust for scanner scale distortion.  Isolate one side. Add register marks that will match locations on the physical mold ( and names - you may think that you can tell by sight, but even if you can, it will take time).  Flip horizontal  and print.
    You should be able  several on a each sheet.
    Trash the Balsa. Use Pine.  The Pine from a builder's supply works well - just no Fir and no resin streaks.  Also, for your filler,  think vertical, not horizontal.  Like slices of bread.  Those same patterns that you use to check symmetry make excellent filler shape patterns. 
    How to shape the fillers off the hull, so that they are a push fit:
    When you do the scan and flip in the drawing program, also
    CUT the white background of each mold pattern  - each is a layer and each layer is only the shape - the vertical center line and the horizontal baseline.
    Make a series of consecutive pairs of mold patterns.
    Add three small "o"  around the perimeter  but well inside -font size 4 works.   Use the holes for bamboo skewers.
    The inside  can be cut away if you want a hold or less weight.  It can be any shape.
    The filler slices - 1/4" for most is good.  smaller thicknesses can make up the difference for a tight fit - even poster board or cardboard fill fill a small gap if needed - liberal PVA makes it tough.
    rough shape each slice as an individual.  Remove the patterns -except for the one at either end.
    PVA glue them together,  Use the bamboo dowels and the section of layers is precisely aligned. 
     If you add a layer that is the same thickness as the mold plywood at the end facing the midline, bond it to the rest using a double layer of rubber cement, the whole section can be final shaped off the hull and still be just as precise as if it were done on the hull.
    Remove the sacrificial end layer and push the section home.
     
    Oh, and if you do this, the filler will make sure the hull is symmetrical.  If the actual molds are misshaped  and not symmetrical, it will not matter. The filler surface makes any contribution from the actual molds insignificant.
     
    It is easier if this is planned for before the molds are bonded to the spine and the alignment holes are also done on the actual molds. It is easier to use the bamboo.  Even easier, the filler is made up before the actual hull assembly and the hull is done from the center out and each filler section is added with its mold.
  21. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in How can I copy the shape of the left hull onto the right side?   
    Well, the next step up is to forego the spine and molds altogether.  Make the mold substitute a permanent part and just join up the sections.  But each pattern and each section would be the whole cross section /station.  The actual keel then goes last.  
    Another part is that no baseboard is needed. 
  22. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in How can I copy the shape of the left hull onto the right side?   
    What you want is for them to be identical and precise.   Accuracy is secondary as long as the whole is internally consistent.
     
    Scan the mold patterns from the plans.  Open the scan in a raster based drawing program.  Adjust for scanner scale distortion.  Isolate one side. Add register marks that will match locations on the physical mold ( and names - you may think that you can tell by sight, but even if you can, it will take time).  Flip horizontal  and print.
    You should be able  several on a each sheet.
    Trash the Balsa. Use Pine.  The Pine from a builder's supply works well - just no Fir and no resin streaks.  Also, for your filler,  think vertical, not horizontal.  Like slices of bread.  Those same patterns that you use to check symmetry make excellent filler shape patterns. 
    How to shape the fillers off the hull, so that they are a push fit:
    When you do the scan and flip in the drawing program, also
    CUT the white background of each mold pattern  - each is a layer and each layer is only the shape - the vertical center line and the horizontal baseline.
    Make a series of consecutive pairs of mold patterns.
    Add three small "o"  around the perimeter  but well inside -font size 4 works.   Use the holes for bamboo skewers.
    The inside  can be cut away if you want a hold or less weight.  It can be any shape.
    The filler slices - 1/4" for most is good.  smaller thicknesses can make up the difference for a tight fit - even poster board or cardboard fill fill a small gap if needed - liberal PVA makes it tough.
    rough shape each slice as an individual.  Remove the patterns -except for the one at either end.
    PVA glue them together,  Use the bamboo dowels and the section of layers is precisely aligned. 
     If you add a layer that is the same thickness as the mold plywood at the end facing the midline, bond it to the rest using a double layer of rubber cement, the whole section can be final shaped off the hull and still be just as precise as if it were done on the hull.
    Remove the sacrificial end layer and push the section home.
     
    Oh, and if you do this, the filler will make sure the hull is symmetrical.  If the actual molds are misshaped  and not symmetrical, it will not matter. The filler surface makes any contribution from the actual molds insignificant.
     
    It is easier if this is planned for before the molds are bonded to the spine and the alignment holes are also done on the actual molds. It is easier to use the bamboo.  Even easier, the filler is made up before the actual hull assembly and the hull is done from the center out and each filler section is added with its mold.
  23. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from druxey in How can I copy the shape of the left hull onto the right side?   
    What you want is for them to be identical and precise.   Accuracy is secondary as long as the whole is internally consistent.
     
    Scan the mold patterns from the plans.  Open the scan in a raster based drawing program.  Adjust for scanner scale distortion.  Isolate one side. Add register marks that will match locations on the physical mold ( and names - you may think that you can tell by sight, but even if you can, it will take time).  Flip horizontal  and print.
    You should be able  several on a each sheet.
    Trash the Balsa. Use Pine.  The Pine from a builder's supply works well - just no Fir and no resin streaks.  Also, for your filler,  think vertical, not horizontal.  Like slices of bread.  Those same patterns that you use to check symmetry make excellent filler shape patterns. 
    How to shape the fillers off the hull, so that they are a push fit:
    When you do the scan and flip in the drawing program, also
    CUT the white background of each mold pattern  - each is a layer and each layer is only the shape - the vertical center line and the horizontal baseline.
    Make a series of consecutive pairs of mold patterns.
    Add three small "o"  around the perimeter  but well inside -font size 4 works.   Use the holes for bamboo skewers.
    The inside  can be cut away if you want a hold or less weight.  It can be any shape.
    The filler slices - 1/4" for most is good.  smaller thicknesses can make up the difference for a tight fit - even poster board or cardboard fill fill a small gap if needed - liberal PVA makes it tough.
    rough shape each slice as an individual.  Remove the patterns -except for the one at either end.
    PVA glue them together,  Use the bamboo dowels and the section of layers is precisely aligned. 
     If you add a layer that is the same thickness as the mold plywood at the end facing the midline, bond it to the rest using a double layer of rubber cement, the whole section can be final shaped off the hull and still be just as precise as if it were done on the hull.
    Remove the sacrificial end layer and push the section home.
     
    Oh, and if you do this, the filler will make sure the hull is symmetrical.  If the actual molds are misshaped  and not symmetrical, it will not matter. The filler surface makes any contribution from the actual molds insignificant.
     
    It is easier if this is planned for before the molds are bonded to the spine and the alignment holes are also done on the actual molds. It is easier to use the bamboo.  Even easier, the filler is made up before the actual hull assembly and the hull is done from the center out and each filler section is added with its mold.
  24. Wow!
    Jaager got a reaction from modeller_masa in How can I copy the shape of the left hull onto the right side?   
    What you want is for them to be identical and precise.   Accuracy is secondary as long as the whole is internally consistent.
     
    Scan the mold patterns from the plans.  Open the scan in a raster based drawing program.  Adjust for scanner scale distortion.  Isolate one side. Add register marks that will match locations on the physical mold ( and names - you may think that you can tell by sight, but even if you can, it will take time).  Flip horizontal  and print.
    You should be able  several on a each sheet.
    Trash the Balsa. Use Pine.  The Pine from a builder's supply works well - just no Fir and no resin streaks.  Also, for your filler,  think vertical, not horizontal.  Like slices of bread.  Those same patterns that you use to check symmetry make excellent filler shape patterns. 
    How to shape the fillers off the hull, so that they are a push fit:
    When you do the scan and flip in the drawing program, also
    CUT the white background of each mold pattern  - each is a layer and each layer is only the shape - the vertical center line and the horizontal baseline.
    Make a series of consecutive pairs of mold patterns.
    Add three small "o"  around the perimeter  but well inside -font size 4 works.   Use the holes for bamboo skewers.
    The inside  can be cut away if you want a hold or less weight.  It can be any shape.
    The filler slices - 1/4" for most is good.  smaller thicknesses can make up the difference for a tight fit - even poster board or cardboard fill fill a small gap if needed - liberal PVA makes it tough.
    rough shape each slice as an individual.  Remove the patterns -except for the one at either end.
    PVA glue them together,  Use the bamboo dowels and the section of layers is precisely aligned. 
     If you add a layer that is the same thickness as the mold plywood at the end facing the midline, bond it to the rest using a double layer of rubber cement, the whole section can be final shaped off the hull and still be just as precise as if it were done on the hull.
    Remove the sacrificial end layer and push the section home.
     
    Oh, and if you do this, the filler will make sure the hull is symmetrical.  If the actual molds are misshaped  and not symmetrical, it will not matter. The filler surface makes any contribution from the actual molds insignificant.
     
    It is easier if this is planned for before the molds are bonded to the spine and the alignment holes are also done on the actual molds. It is easier to use the bamboo.  Even easier, the filler is made up before the actual hull assembly and the hull is done from the center out and each filler section is added with its mold.
  25. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Gregory in How can I copy the shape of the left hull onto the right side?   
    What you want is for them to be identical and precise.   Accuracy is secondary as long as the whole is internally consistent.
     
    Scan the mold patterns from the plans.  Open the scan in a raster based drawing program.  Adjust for scanner scale distortion.  Isolate one side. Add register marks that will match locations on the physical mold ( and names - you may think that you can tell by sight, but even if you can, it will take time).  Flip horizontal  and print.
    You should be able  several on a each sheet.
    Trash the Balsa. Use Pine.  The Pine from a builder's supply works well - just no Fir and no resin streaks.  Also, for your filler,  think vertical, not horizontal.  Like slices of bread.  Those same patterns that you use to check symmetry make excellent filler shape patterns. 
    How to shape the fillers off the hull, so that they are a push fit:
    When you do the scan and flip in the drawing program, also
    CUT the white background of each mold pattern  - each is a layer and each layer is only the shape - the vertical center line and the horizontal baseline.
    Make a series of consecutive pairs of mold patterns.
    Add three small "o"  around the perimeter  but well inside -font size 4 works.   Use the holes for bamboo skewers.
    The inside  can be cut away if you want a hold or less weight.  It can be any shape.
    The filler slices - 1/4" for most is good.  smaller thicknesses can make up the difference for a tight fit - even poster board or cardboard fill fill a small gap if needed - liberal PVA makes it tough.
    rough shape each slice as an individual.  Remove the patterns -except for the one at either end.
    PVA glue them together,  Use the bamboo dowels and the section of layers is precisely aligned. 
     If you add a layer that is the same thickness as the mold plywood at the end facing the midline, bond it to the rest using a double layer of rubber cement, the whole section can be final shaped off the hull and still be just as precise as if it were done on the hull.
    Remove the sacrificial end layer and push the section home.
     
    Oh, and if you do this, the filler will make sure the hull is symmetrical.  If the actual molds are misshaped  and not symmetrical, it will not matter. The filler surface makes any contribution from the actual molds insignificant.
     
    It is easier if this is planned for before the molds are bonded to the spine and the alignment holes are also done on the actual molds. It is easier to use the bamboo.  Even easier, the filler is made up before the actual hull assembly and the hull is done from the center out and each filler section is added with its mold.
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