Doreltomin

Hello Don9of11 (That's a funny nick you have there!)
 
Thanks for posting your mosaic photo support, it illustrates perfectly what I wanted to say; which is, you don't need to put all the support picture under your vectorial plan at a time, you can put only the relevant part and draw it, then close and put in the next etc.
 
It's easier to do that if you intend to draw all the plan in vectorial, because the bitmap image plan actually uses a lot of resources for the drawing, has to 'map" every point of the image, while the vectorial only uses the coordinates of the start and the end points of a certain (straight) line. 
 
This way you will have a full plan free of any distorsions which you can later print and use for your modelling purposes. 
 
Best wishes,

Hello Harvey,
 
Digital scans of large scale plans are made with a machine which carries the format of the paper back and forth between two rollers while an optical head reads the plan in continuous rows and puts them together. This only works well if the paper is perfectly straight, flat and and of the same thickness all over. Old plans are just the opposite of that. Due to being stored, often rolled, for long times, they are full of wrinkles, creases and irregularities. Besides, this "roller" system often gives an overall dimensional distortion over its lenght because it is calculated for an "average" thickness and it may be that the plan is much different of that.  Last, but not least, paper is a material sensible to moisture. It lengthens or shrinks depending of the air humidity. So while it may have been drawn in perfect scale, as the general level of humidity increased or decreased, so did the plan. Even worse, because the material itself is far for being uniform in its mass, certain parts of the drawing shrinked more, the others less.  All this cause unwanted, but sometimes heavy distorsions of the scanned image. It is precisely what you see in your plan. 
 
My suggestion is either that before importing the scanned image into TurboCAD you have to make it as clear and straight as possible. There are even unexpensive image softwares like the "Paint" which comes as a pack with Windows which you can use for that. You can even cut the plan into several slices and put them manually to fit the vertical.
 
Another option is that you can work with your TurboCAD (I haven't worked with that, but I know how to use AutoCAD, it may be fairly similar) and put your drawing on a working layer on top with a number of vertical guidelines at proper angles and distances, with the scanned drawing on another layer as a background and then as your drawing goes on, move the background slightly for each part to make the drawing in correct shape and dimensions. 
 
Hope I made myself understood, good luck with your drawing and show us what you did! 
Best wishes,

Eventually I came to the 1mm and 0,5 mm metal (bronze) wires which were responded well.
Because, the first to the prow cagemast, had to be built through the deck of the bridge I had to build also some of the upper structure of this area…

 
I started building the cagemast, placing only some wires (rods) leaving that way the spaces through which I placed the floors.
The floors were made by metal ring on which I placed painted tulle representing, the metallic gratings…



 
That’s all for now, I’m waiting for my order of the photo-etched ladders…
Merry Christmas to all.
 
 
 

Happy New Year to all.
Well the ladders have arrived and have been placed between the floors.
It's hard to be seen in the photos inside a room, so I took the chance to use the Greek sky as a background even in January...
I think you can see two ladders between the first and third floors.

 
I placed also the shelves for the searchlights and the observation post at the top of the mast, all made by pieces of plastic.

 
It can't be seen but I haven't placed one last wire because I need an open, through which I will place some fittings
of the open bridge (a ship's wheel, compass). As some other items, they have to be waiting the painting of the mast.
Thanks

 

I graduated from the "furnish" Gondek, a little more effort and I can close it . Before closing, I will do the final photo.
Mastered the three-dimensional shapes and almost finished decor stern. Finished   completely underwater boards .

Hello Doris, that's a very nice helmsman you have there! I am as always impressed by your talent and your attention to detail. 
 
Therefore, just as a help for you to make the things look more realistic and not as a criticism of any way, please find attached a sample made putting together details from two different Willem van de Velde drawing depicting people aboard two of the yachts of King Charles the 2nd of England. Even if the drawings are about one hundred years earlier, I believe the sailor's clothes would have been the same. 
 
As you can see in the drawing, the crew usually had a long mantle with sleeves, long pants and always wore tarred hats to protect themselves against the wind, sea and sun.
 
Moreover, I believe the position of the long wooden pole connected to your yacht's rudder may be too raised up. It should have been made parallel with the deck and going just above the deck light in such a way that the metal ball terminating the rudder post would be at the proper height for being grasped by the helmsman's hand. 
 
Hope this helps..  anyway, you can as well leave everything just as it is, it looks stunning anyway!

Hello Doris, that's a very nice helmsman you have there! I am as always impressed by your talent and your attention to detail. 
 
Therefore, just as a help for you to make the things look more realistic and not as a criticism of any way, please find attached a sample made putting together details from two different Willem van de Velde drawing depicting people aboard two of the yachts of King Charles the 2nd of England. Even if the drawings are about one hundred years earlier, I believe the sailor's clothes would have been the same. 
 
As you can see in the drawing, the crew usually had a long mantle with sleeves, long pants and always wore tarred hats to protect themselves against the wind, sea and sun.
 
Moreover, I believe the position of the long wooden pole connected to your yacht's rudder may be too raised up. It should have been made parallel with the deck and going just above the deck light in such a way that the metal ball terminating the rudder post would be at the proper height for being grasped by the helmsman's hand. 
 
Hope this helps..  anyway, you can as well leave everything just as it is, it looks stunning anyway!

Sheer luck, it was one of the first showing up when I went looking for a "croiseur WWI" fomr France
 
Something quite different
 
 
Jan

Hello Harvey,
 
Digital scans of large scale plans are made with a machine which carries the format of the paper back and forth between two rollers while an optical head reads the plan in continuous rows and puts them together. This only works well if the paper is perfectly straight, flat and and of the same thickness all over. Old plans are just the opposite of that. Due to being stored, often rolled, for long times, they are full of wrinkles, creases and irregularities. Besides, this "roller" system often gives an overall dimensional distortion over its lenght because it is calculated for an "average" thickness and it may be that the plan is much different of that.  Last, but not least, paper is a material sensible to moisture. It lengthens or shrinks depending of the air humidity. So while it may have been drawn in perfect scale, as the general level of humidity increased or decreased, so did the plan. Even worse, because the material itself is far for being uniform in its mass, certain parts of the drawing shrinked more, the others less.  All this cause unwanted, but sometimes heavy distorsions of the scanned image. It is precisely what you see in your plan. 
 
My suggestion is either that before importing the scanned image into TurboCAD you have to make it as clear and straight as possible. There are even unexpensive image softwares like the "Paint" which comes as a pack with Windows which you can use for that. You can even cut the plan into several slices and put them manually to fit the vertical.
 
Another option is that you can work with your TurboCAD (I haven't worked with that, but I know how to use AutoCAD, it may be fairly similar) and put your drawing on a working layer on top with a number of vertical guidelines at proper angles and distances, with the scanned drawing on another layer as a background and then as your drawing goes on, move the background slightly for each part to make the drawing in correct shape and dimensions. 
 
Hope I made myself understood, good luck with your drawing and show us what you did! 
Best wishes,

btw it is unprotected cruiser  Cosmao

Charles Parson's Turbinia of 1894! Her original power plant is in the Science Museum, South Kensington

Thanks Doreltomin; My General Cad Pro also has the Spine command. I do all of my curve compilations in a COGO program and export the results into Cad. The devices with the characteristic of a bow in the Loft makes sense. Thanks Again.
jud

Hello Cergina,
 
Thank you for looking in at my build.
Yes, it is really time for me to finish her.
But life and and a lot of work got in the way.
 
The discovery ship the Half Moon was a small and lightly armed galleon, although in VOC documents it is called a Yacht.
And by Emanuel van Meteren (a Flemish Historian) even Vlieboot (flyboat).
 
Your Bon Homme Richard is coming along nicely.
 
Thanks again,
 
Anja

What Doreltomin said is right on. In CAD software by using the spline command and features a person can smooth the trace out. Different software do it in different ways but it all comes down to the same thing which is basically using the spline command.

Doris,
 
    Thank you for the link to your log. I went through the whole log from page 1 to page 49, even though I do not know the language the pictures spoke for all that was there. I now understand what it takes to make a ship from card. Your work and detail is out of this world, there are no others words that can describe the talent that you have. You are the best in this hobby. Thank you for sharing all your fine work with all of us. Please never stop posting your builds. I wish you the best in the new year and all the years that follow. Than you.

Hello dear friends and thank you a lot for your feedback and kind words. I am very honoured and pleased.
And once again Happy New year to you all!
 
 
That´s right, I use various materials, but I try to use card/paper as far as it goes, but sometimes paper has got limits (solidity and durability), or it is easier to make some details of other materials with much better result. I have no special tools, unfortunately. The most important for me is final impression and durability. Some years ago I used only paper, but was not satisfied with "paper" looking result.
 
 
 
 
I am honoured, thank you. Your work is also a great inspiration for me, I admire the realism and a high level craftsmanship of your models.
 
 
Don´t worry, dear friend. I am pleased sharing my work with you. Sometimes i am a bit busy to add new post ( it is also quite difficult to me write in English), but I am going to continue as soon as possible.
 
 
Well, the Royal Caroline is already closed - all decks are in their places and i am continuing with fitting and lighting on stern.
Enjoy the pics and have a great time
Kind regards
Doris
 











 
 

It's hard to believe that you are looking at a model! It really does look like the real thing! Excellent work. You truly DO have a talent for model ships. Keep up the fab work!

Hello Jud, 
 
Now that your question is back again, even if it might not add precisely to Harvey's thread, I can, with the due apologies to him, at least try an answer; although I am not by any means very good in maths. It is right that almost any curve may have a mathematical formule attached. I used to know how to calculate some simple basic formulae a long time ago, but now I believe for practical reasons today with our CAD-CAM's we can simply forget all that.
 
In simple days of lofting ships "the old way" starting with, say, 17th century, these lines were drawn using long flexible profiles of wood which were held in place using weights. I draw my ship plans even today using the same technique, only the wooden profil is kept in place with sewing pins nailed lightly into the drawing board. To be more specific, I use a software for my job as an architect, but when it comes to ships which is just a hobby, I love to do it by hand in the dear old way. 
 
Back in the 17th century they even had several kind of devices with more or less the likeness of a bow where the shipwright could tighten or loose several screws to obtain the required curve.These curves obtained from flexible profiles are called in today's language "splines" . AutoCAD has them as well as my professional software which is designed by a Munich based firm called Nemetschek. 
 
Basically, you can trace a spline using certain attach points and the spline takes its shape exactly in the same way as the wooden profile. Moreover, this is a curve which can be "adjusted" by tiny movements up or down of the attach points. Of course this curve may indeed have a mathematical formule attached, but since it is the software which "produces" it, who cares which is that?
 
The mathematical curve was useful in the old days because you had to use the formulae to replicate the curve in a bigger or smaller scale. Today the technology does that for us with practically no pain. Hope this helps... 

Hello dear friend Doris,
 
Thank you for the links to the Czech forum, that is very interesting, when I will arrive that far I will "borrow" your techniques too! 
 
Actually I believe "paper model" is not quite right to say in your case. The ultra-orthodox so to say paper modellers do make everything in paper, starting with the hull and ending with the masts, spars and so on. Yours approach is very different, you do the hull in paper, but then the 3D pieces are done in different media according to the required shape and look. 
 
I believe "Mixed media" would be more appropriate for your technique. 
 
You are as always a true inspiration for me, I only hope to be able some day to model something at least half as beautiful as yours! Best wishes,
 
Dorin

Hello Harvey,
 
Digital scans of large scale plans are made with a machine which carries the format of the paper back and forth between two rollers while an optical head reads the plan in continuous rows and puts them together. This only works well if the paper is perfectly straight, flat and and of the same thickness all over. Old plans are just the opposite of that. Due to being stored, often rolled, for long times, they are full of wrinkles, creases and irregularities. Besides, this "roller" system often gives an overall dimensional distortion over its lenght because it is calculated for an "average" thickness and it may be that the plan is much different of that.  Last, but not least, paper is a material sensible to moisture. It lengthens or shrinks depending of the air humidity. So while it may have been drawn in perfect scale, as the general level of humidity increased or decreased, so did the plan. Even worse, because the material itself is far for being uniform in its mass, certain parts of the drawing shrinked more, the others less.  All this cause unwanted, but sometimes heavy distorsions of the scanned image. It is precisely what you see in your plan. 
 
My suggestion is either that before importing the scanned image into TurboCAD you have to make it as clear and straight as possible. There are even unexpensive image softwares like the "Paint" which comes as a pack with Windows which you can use for that. You can even cut the plan into several slices and put them manually to fit the vertical.
 
Another option is that you can work with your TurboCAD (I haven't worked with that, but I know how to use AutoCAD, it may be fairly similar) and put your drawing on a working layer on top with a number of vertical guidelines at proper angles and distances, with the scanned drawing on another layer as a background and then as your drawing goes on, move the background slightly for each part to make the drawing in correct shape and dimensions. 
 
Hope I made myself understood, good luck with your drawing and show us what you did! 
Best wishes,

@all
Thanks for your replays and likes
 
@Marcus
Nice to hear from you. I hope everything is ok.

I was really suprised that I did not find a build log about the Naval Cutter Alert on MSW 2.0. I know that there exist some pictures of a model on the old MSW
 
The first source for building a model of this small vessel are Peter Goodwins book "The Naval Cutter Alert, 1777", published by PhoenixPublications Inc. 1991 and the two original drawing of her sister Rattlesnake (1776) which you will find on the homepage of the NMM.
There also exist two paintings of Joseph Marshall of the ship, which are exhibited in the Science Museum, London.
I found also an Sheer and Profile drawing of Alert which was published by the NRG.
 
The sheer and profile of the NRG and Goodwin differ from the original drawing. They show the maximum width of the ship not at frame 0. Perhaps my Engish is to bad, but I could not find any reason for this. So I decide to draw my own lines. which were based on Goodwin and the original drawing.

 
The drawing is not finished, because I decided only to draw what I need for my build.
 
Next step was the keel. Goodwin shows for the pass between keel and lower apron a solution which I could not find on any original cutter drawings.

 
For the after deadwood he does not offer any possible solution

 
I decide to follow the original drawing of Cheerful 1806 for the pass between keel and lower apron. The flat joint at the foremost keel part is shown on original drawings of this period (for example on HMS Triton). For the after deadwood I decided to use a bearing line. I am not sure if this is common for ships of this period.
The next picture shows my completed keel drawing:

 
Goodwin uses for his design the common frameing pattern of double and single frames. I am not sure that this design was used for the original ship. For the Swan class sloops only single frames were used. This you will also find on the drawing of Cheerful and other cutters. Also the wide of the frame parts are not clear. In his drawing he uses much smaller futtocks than he descibed in the text part of the book. In his "Construction and Fitting of Sailing Man of War" he gives a third solution.
What now? Alert is a practice model for me to get the experience to continue my HMS Fly build. Marshall shows on his paintings an simplified frameing design, so I decided to use this. Every frame is 8'' width followed by 8'' space. For the port side I like to show the clinker planking.
On my drawing the final design for the last frame and the hawse pieces is missing in the moment.

 
The drawings for every 31frames and 21cant frames are finished.

 
I am not sure in the moment if I will use the original practice with chocks or the simplified method of Harold Hahn for my build.
 
It will be very nice if you have further information about the cutters of this time. I found the Marmaduke Stalkartt on Google-books, but they didn't scan the plates. Perhaps one of the MSW user can help me to confirm my decisions.

Haha, not that bad Jan! 
 
In fact, you should know about me two things: first, I am an architect, so knowing the style of a building from the first glance is a professional thing. Secondly, incidentally I have had a post graduate course in your lovely "small country fit for frogs" and I have travelled extensively in many major cities around the Netherlands, so it was not so difficult for me to recognize, if not exactly Flushing in your picture, at least the Dutch environment. Then it was a piece of cake to google for the history of your first submarines. Not to mention how much I love your culture, your "golden century" and your wonderful Dutch ships. 
 
Thank you very much again for unveiling me another fact of your history, this time about your submarines. I believe this is the best part out of this game: Seeing/showing a picture, trying to find what it is, then at the end reading a little excerpt of the history of a a certain ship. 
 
So this being said, It seems It is time to put in the next mystery picture. Of course, at the beginning I have tampered with the flag, otherwise it would have been too easy. Good luck and have a nice Sunday!