GRATEFUL LITTLE PHISH

Got a few minutes to sit down today, cut out the bkheafs and fit them to the hull. From what I can see they fit much more precisely than I've read about. The book I'm reading recommends tracing each bulkhead, folding it and using that as an indicator to get the hull properly straight. Is this common for any of you to do? Obviously important, just trying to see how you all approach this. 

Chris ⚓️ 

Well the full kit arrived and everything seems to be there. The mast appears to have a bit of splintering, but luckily have one from the original kit. Got a new puppy yesterday so that's taking a little of my time! Hoping to start soon ⚓️ 

9 hours ago, chris watton said:

I have actually designed quite a few kits in the range that are aimed primarily at the complete beginner. They cost a little more because there are more pre cut parts, and in more suitable materials.

I love the reputation and praise Vanguard has received on my posts alone, bit for some reason, battling with a kit and not getting it too easy the first go-around seems somewhat appropriate so I'm not spoiled too soon 😃 

I honestly think I may get a Frankenstein kit out of it and use it as a learning experience. She sent me a photo of the other kit she's sending and it looks like the missing pieces are there. Time will tell!

2 hours ago, chris watton said:

That is a shame, the perils of eBay purchases! 

Chris, 

It probably pains you to see it, I'm sure, haha! There are multiple silver linings. The lady is a new seller and she must have bought a lot of kits, two of which were lady nelsons, the other she is sending me free of charge after refunding me immediately, which does have the keel and bulkheads. Even if it's incomplete in some other small way, it gives me a somewhat carefree practice kit for my first kit that I can tinker with and study. I gave her good feedback since she handled the situation very professionally and I figured the lesson learned was beneficial to her: if you're going to sell model kits to a detail-oriented community, make sure they're complete if you're listing them as NEW! 

I was on the Vanguard site last night, but didn't see too many beginner/intermediate kits at my level, and I am definitely not going to get something out of league to start with. Hopefully I can work my way up to one in the future 👍. 

Cheers,

Chris

Well, the lady on ebay was very sweet and gave me a refund immediately...I really don't think she knew. 

Can't do much without the bulkheads, keel and deck! Seems like someone started the build and quit...she's sending me another od the same kit at no cost. Maybe I can Frankenstein the two together. I think I'll find a new kit online to he safe. Can't make this stuff up. 

44 minutes ago, Thukydides said:

That is pretty frequent. If you go look at the forum section for new members there is a post discussing the significant number of people who start a build log and never get the model finished. That is why starting with something small (as you have done), is a good idea. I think even in my relatively short time here I have seen a number of build logs I was following just stop posting. Life happens or people just loose interest.

 

I myself had a period of several months where I made no progress on Alert due to a combination of life being busy and being unsure how to proceed with a problem I had with the model. This lead to me feeling unmotivated to work on it and it took some effort to push through that. You will likely have a similar moment and the key is to find little tasks on the model you can get done. I find that having progress to share helps me to want to do more.

Great advice, thanks! He may have lost interest in the forum, but his skill level was quite impressive from what I ascertained. Tonight I get to do an inventory and open a few new tools, so I'm just enjoying the evergreen stage, no rush. Good chatting,

Chris

.

There was a guy named vossiewolf on here who had an amazing build log going for Lady Nelson and he appears to have fallen off the face of the earth some years ago. Kinda weird. 

1 hour ago, Thukydides said:

Nice, which one? Cutters are a great first model. Take it slow and read as many build logs as you can. It is always better to learn from others mistakes 😃.

It's the Lady Nelson. I've been reading quite a few 👍 and watching YT videos. 

Chris

All,

My model showed up two days early, and I felt like Ralphie's dad when the leg lamp showed up. Needless to say it was exciting, so, thanks to the support and motivation of others who have produced some beautiful HM Cutters on this site, here's the start to my first build log and what I imagine will be a great learning curve. May not have time to get deep today, and that's okay! Still waiting on some supplies. ⚓️ 

Anchors Aweigh,

Chris

Looks cool. I'm about to start my first model and it's an HM Cutter. Looking forward to referring to your build log. Take care. 

Chris

On 7/6/2023 at 5:00 PM, Bob Cleek said:

 

Excellent advice from Roger, as usual. Allow me to elaborate a little bit. I live by the maxim, "He who dies with the most tools, wins!" I'm always on the lookout for a tool I need. That said, unless you know you will need it in the future, never buy a tool until you need it and then only buy the best tool you can afford. There are instances where you can get away with cheap tools (Harbor Freight is your friend,) but this is usually a false economy. The most expensive tools are the ones you end up buying more than once. Good tools, especially good hand tools, can last for generations. Stay away from "hobby" sources if you can possibly avoid them. Micro-Mark and Model Expo will often be offering bottom end quality tools at top end prices, and then some. Never overlook the used tool market, as well. There are many bargains to be had searching local "online garage sales" like Craigslist and even eBay, where new and used dental and surgical instruments and tools of varying quality are sold for reasonable prices. 

 

As a general rule, any tool that is marketed as being for use in model shipbuilding will be 1) of poor quality, 2) of questionable usefulness, and 3) a total waste of money. "Choose wisely, Grasshopper." Most of the more useful tools for working in miniature will come from the medical and dental professions and from commercial jewelers' supply houses like Rio Grande (Rio Grande | Wholesale Jewelry Making Supplies & Services - RioGrande) and Otto Frei (OttoFrei.com | Jewelry Tools & Findings Since 1930 — Otto Frei) BTW, Their quality will be higher and their prices often lower. BTW, Otto Frei is currently having an "up to" 20% off sale on Vallorbe Swiss files. The more you buy, the more you save. You will always need Swiss files. The cheap ones from the hobby stores are garbage, though a lot of modelers have never discovered the difference. Real jeweler's files like the quality Vallorbe brand are a different world altogether and, if cared for, last a very long time compared to the cheapo models. You might want to treat yourself to a few.

If you're really frugal, you'd do well to get your fifty bucks back for that rotary tool and buy a couple or three Vallorbe Swiss files. I can't imagine a rotary tool worth spending fifty bucks on because at that price point you can be sure it is junk. (Granted, junk can sometimes last a surprisingly long time, but the odds of that happening are very slim.) Moreover, while there is occasionally a use for a high-speed, low torque rotary tool like the Dremel models, they are not well-suited for working on wood. A rotary tool and assorted burrs and grinding stones is always useful and I'd advise it as a first major purchase powered tool for any modeler. Some research will enable you to decide which rotary tool option is best for you. Besides the Dremel, which I wouldn't advise if you are only going to invest in a single rotary tool, there are the hanging flex-shaft machines exemplified by the higher torque Foredom line, and the "dental engines" of varying types, of which the most useful for modeling is the old high torque, low speed belt driven articulated arm models like your dentist used to drill your cavities. A new Foredom basic flex shaft set up and handpieces will set you back at least five hundred bucks. A new dental engine with a handpiece will easily run more than a grand. Not to worry though. There's always the used market. My Foredom flex shaft and two handpieces cost me $75 off Craigslist. It's an older model, but it runs great and is my primary workhorse rotary tool. My brand new Buffalo Dental Co. dental engine with a handpiece cost me $75 off eBay. There's a story that illustrates the value of keeping your eyes open all the time for tool bargains. The dental engine was listed on eBay as a "steampunk decorator piece" with the disclaimer that it would look cool on display but was "inoperable." It looked unused. I found the manufacturer's website, ascertained that the unit looked complete, save for two belt sheaves and the belt, and that parts were available for it. I PM'd the seller to ask about the item's provenance. He said it came from a dental lab that was closing and had a lot of old stuff to get rid of. He said he'd plugged it in, but it didn't run. I decided to buy it for $75 on the off chance that the engine could be repaired. If not, the handpiece was worth $250 used alone, so I could resell that and come out ahead. When I got the machine, I examined it and discovered both brushes had been removed from the motor. Apparently, this was a new unit in the stockroom that had been "cannibalized" for parts at some point. I ordered the two missing sheaves, a belt, and a set of brushes. I installed the parts and the machine ran like new. Score one new $1,250 dental engine and handpiece for $75!  

 

 

A thread about what tools somebody else out to buy could go on forever. There's nothing like spending other people's money.  Without getting further into the weeds discussing specific tool purchases, I'd urge you to do two things.

 

First, there are several Lady Nelson build logs here, some by quite accomplished modelers (Vossiewulf, for one.) Showing results for '"Lady Nelson"'. - Model Ship World™ Go over those build logs and see what tools those who have built your kit before have used and determine whether you need them for your build. If you haven't studied the build logs for your model, you should certainly do so before starting to build anything.

 

Second, if you haven't already, and you expect to spend any time on this hobby, I suggest you start building your research library. That can become a hobby to last a lifetime in itself, but the longest journey begins with a single step. Get yourself a copy of Frank Mastini's book: Ship Modeling Simplified: Tips and Techniques for Model Construction from Kits: Frank Mastini: 9780071558679: Amazon.com: Books  There are used copies of this book all over eBay for less than the twenty bucks it costs new. This is a primer for beginning ship modelers building models from kits. It is very good for what it is. There are other far more sophisticated books on ship modeling which attract the experienced modeler, but for starting out, this one will be quite helpful.

 

Happy modeling!

Bob, I picked up that book used on Amazon for $10, and a used copy of planking techniques on ebay for $6. The one you recommended will be here tomorrow, so that'll be a nice read as I (patiently) wait for my model to arrive. Thanks again for the advice. 

Chris

21 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

 

Excellent advice from Roger, as usual. Allow me to elaborate a little bit. I live by the maxim, "He who dies with the most tools, wins!" I'm always on the lookout for a tool I need. That said, unless you know you will need it in the future, never buy a tool until you need it and then only buy the best tool you can afford. There are instances where you can get away with cheap tools (Harbor Freight is your friend,) but this is usually a false economy. The most expensive tools are the ones you end up buying more than once. Good tools, especially good hand tools, can last for generations. Stay away from "hobby" sources if you can possibly avoid them. Micro-Mark and Model Expo will often be offering bottom end quality tools at top end prices, and then some. Never overlook the used tool market, as well. There are many bargains to be had searching local "online garage sales" like Craigslist and even eBay, where new and used dental and surgical instruments and tools of varying quality are sold for reasonable prices. 

 

As a general rule, any tool that is marketed as being for use in model shipbuilding will be 1) of poor quality, 2) of questionable usefulness, and 3) a total waste of money. "Choose wisely, Grasshopper." Most of the more useful tools for working in miniature will come from the medical and dental professions and from commercial jewelers' supply houses like Rio Grande (Rio Grande | Wholesale Jewelry Making Supplies & Services - RioGrande) and Otto Frei (OttoFrei.com | Jewelry Tools & Findings Since 1930 — Otto Frei) BTW, Their quality will be higher and their prices often lower. BTW, Otto Frei is currently having an "up to" 20% off sale on Vallorbe Swiss files. The more you buy, the more you save. You will always need Swiss files. The cheap ones from the hobby stores are garbage, though a lot of modelers have never discovered the difference. Real jeweler's files like the quality Vallorbe brand are a different world altogether and, if cared for, last a very long time compared to the cheapo models. You might want to treat yourself to a few.

If you're really frugal, you'd do well to get your fifty bucks back for that rotary tool and buy a couple or three Vallorbe Swiss files. I can't imagine a rotary tool worth spending fifty bucks on because at that price point you can be sure it is junk. (Granted, junk can sometimes last a surprisingly long time, but the odds of that happening are very slim.) Moreover, while there is occasionally a use for a high-speed, low torque rotary tool like the Dremel models, they are not well-suited for working on wood. A rotary tool and assorted burrs and grinding stones is always useful and I'd advise it as a first major purchase powered tool for any modeler. Some research will enable you to decide which rotary tool option is best for you. Besides the Dremel, which I wouldn't advise if you are only going to invest in a single rotary tool, there are the hanging flex-shaft machines exemplified by the higher torque Foredom line, and the "dental engines" of varying types, of which the most useful for modeling is the old high torque, low speed belt driven articulated arm models like your dentist used to drill your cavities. A new Foredom basic flex shaft set up and handpieces will set you back at least five hundred bucks. A new dental engine with a handpiece will easily run more than a grand. Not to worry though. There's always the used market. My Foredom flex shaft and two handpieces cost me $75 off Craigslist. It's an older model, but it runs great and is my primary workhorse rotary tool. My brand new Buffalo Dental Co. dental engine with a handpiece cost me $75 off eBay. There's a story that illustrates the value of keeping your eyes open all the time for tool bargains. The dental engine was listed on eBay as a "steampunk decorator piece" with the disclaimer that it would look cool on display but was "inoperable." It looked unused. I found the manufacturer's website, ascertained that the unit looked complete, save for two belt sheaves and the belt, and that parts were available for it. I PM'd the seller to ask about the item's provenance. He said it came from a dental lab that was closing and had a lot of old stuff to get rid of. He said he'd plugged it in, but it didn't run. I decided to buy it for $75 on the off chance that the engine could be repaired. If not, the handpiece was worth $250 used alone, so I could resell that and come out ahead. When I got the machine, I examined it and discovered both brushes had been removed from the motor. Apparently, this was a new unit in the stockroom that had been "cannibalized" for parts at some point. I ordered the two missing sheaves, a belt, and a set of brushes. I installed the parts and the machine ran like new. Score one new $1,250 dental engine and handpiece for $75!  

 

 

A thread about what tools somebody else out to buy could go on forever. There's nothing like spending other people's money.  Without getting further into the weeds discussing specific tool purchases, I'd urge you to do two things.

 

First, there are several Lady Nelson build logs here, some by quite accomplished modelers (Vossiewulf, for one.) Showing results for '"Lady Nelson"'. - Model Ship World™ Go over those build logs and see what tools those who have built your kit before have used and determine whether you need them for your build. If you haven't studied the build logs for your model, you should certainly do so before starting to build anything.

 

Second, if you haven't already, and you expect to spend any time on this hobby, I suggest you start building your research library. That can become a hobby to last a lifetime in itself, but the longest journey begins with a single step. Get yourself a copy of Frank Mastini's book: Ship Modeling Simplified: Tips and Techniques for Model Construction from Kits: Frank Mastini: 9780071558679: Amazon.com: Books  There are used copies of this book all over eBay for less than the twenty bucks it costs new. This is a primer for beginning ship modelers building models from kits. It is very good for what it is. There are other far more sophisticated books on ship modeling which attract the experienced modeler, but for starting out, this one will be quite helpful.

 

Happy modeling!

Bob, 

I must have missed the rest of this post, my apologies. I had been looking at some other logs, but vossiewolf is definitely one to look at as his skill level is high, so thank you. I will be returning the rotary tool and invsting in some files, maybe not the Swiss ones right away, but I understand their value. Also, nice finds on ebay! 🏆 

Chris

I think anybody who recommended Chuck's method and appreciates quality vintage can appreciate this antique store find today. Practically NIB, hope it enjoys its new-found purpose. 

Welcome aboard. Have fun. 

Chris

Welcome aboard, have fun. 

Chris

Welcome, I'm new here, too, and the support had already been very warm and supportive. 

On 6/29/2022 at 1:02 AM, Dave_E said:

Ok Boys and Girls… Here it is. Did as much coil work as I dare. I have snagged the rigging so many times it’s a miracle I haven’t snapped parts right off the ship. 😆 I’m calling her finished. Will one of you moderators change the title to FINISHED for me? Thanks again to Paul in Australia for making all the guns and to all the rest of you who helped me along the journey of my first wooden ship build with techniques, critiques and encouragement! Was in no hurry, but I had several months of winter rain that kept me indoors. Keel laid December 4, 2021, launched June 28, 2022.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well done! This just happens to be the first boat I'm doing, and it'll be here in a few days. Your build log should prove quite invaluable. Looks like your guitar skills proved useful. Cheers.

Chris

7 hours ago, jpalmer1970 said:

Some great advice from lots of people here. I would add that I find many uses for a variety of rubber bands in various thicknesses and lengths, especially when planking the hull. And the same goes for clamps, getting a variety of sizes and widths and reach etc is always helpful and you can never have too many!

I've definitely seen this done around the bow and stern sort of where the excess planks are prior to being trimmed. 👍 

29 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said:

Quite so! When you get to thinking about paint, perhaps some of us can convince you to take a pass on super expensive pre-mixed hobby shop paints and mix your own from artists' oils. You'll want an airbrush later on, too, but that's a story for another night.

 

Keep your eyes peeled at those garage sales and flea markets. You just never know when you might trip over an old school jeweler's lathe with all its tooling for a price you can afford or even a Unimat SL or Myford 7 modeler's lathe with attachments and tooling.

Mixing paint sounds pretty righteous to me. Channel some Bob Ross with some titanium WHite and beat the devil out of my brushes (carefully).

34 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said:

 

Excellent advice from Roger, as usual. Allow me to elaborate a little bit. I live by the maxim, "He who dies with the most tools, wins!" That said, never buy a tool until you need it and then only buy the best tool you can afford. There are instances where you can get away with cheap tools (Harbor Freight is your friend,) but this is usually a false economy. The most expensive tools are the ones you end up buying more than once. Good tools, especially good hand tools, can last for generations. Stay away from "hobby" sources if you can possibly avoid them. MicroMark and other hobby retailers will often be offering bottom end quality tools at top end prices, and then some. Never overlook the used tool market, as well. There are many bargains to be had searching local "online garage sales" like Craigslist and even eBay, where new and used dental and surgical instruments and tools of varying quality are sold for reasonable prices. 

 

Bob,

Read you loud and clear. It's funny you mentioned it because I went to both hobby lobby and harbor freight yesterday and came home empty handed. I began to realiE that this hobby is a true craftsman hobby and moat of the tools needed ate far more unique than those stores would have. As a kid I'd ride my bike to the hobby lobby near my house and get testors or the splurge Tamiya paint, but I was very disappointed yesterday. 

As someone who loves going to my local antique shop and flea markets, that passion should provide more unique finds moving forward. 

The starter stuff I got may not be great, but I bought it as the bare essentials for what I thought I'd get into, and will add to that when the job calls for it. I appreciate your insight.

Chris

12 minutes ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  My brother got my dad's old fashioned dental drill machine, with arm segments and a long belt drive.  Having a 90 degree drill head was a boon in mnay tight modeling situations.

That is a great tool, and one I'm sure many people love to hear! 🤣 

Looks like my model is due to arrive on the 10th, not the 13th, so that's good news! I remember the excitement of opening a new model as a kid, so the anticipation is fun in and of itself. 

54 minutes ago, wefalck said:

I bought a basic rotary tool (no fancy ergonomic casings such as on the PROXXON or DREMEL, but very good steel collets) in around 1977 and it still one of my work-horses. Perhaps it is not so much used on wood indeed, but a shipmodel has also a lot of brass fittings that need to be shaped. Grindstones and abrasive discs are for that. Together with needle-files it also served me as a kind of rudimentary lathe before I had a real one. And, yes, I don't use it very often for drilling. Grinding and polishing are the main applications. I wouldn't want to be without it.

I benevolent what simulated me to get one was watching Olhas channel and watching her carve away the planks at the hull where I believe the false hull would sit? In still working on my terminology so hopefully that still makes sense. You are correct that it does indeed have many uses, and for someone like me, understanding when to use it and when not to is a benefit before I damage the kit wood pieces. 

Thanks for your inputs,

Chris

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

Rotary tools:  I do not use rotary tools for wooden construction for two reasons.

 

First, a mishandled rotary tool can do an enormous amount of damage in an instant, particularly with the soft woods supplied with kits.  Instead I use needle files and very small rifflers whenever possible.

 

Second, hobby grade rotary tools are high speed low torque machines.  They run at MUCH higher speeds than tools designed for drilling.  The centrifugal force created can instantly fling a small wire size drill away from the hole that you are trying to drill.  The archimedes  type drill recommended by Wefalck is a better choice.  If you must use a powered drilling tool, buy one especially designed for this purpose.

 

These recommendations from MSW members, including me, are all influenced by personal work habits sometimes developed over decades.  As such they reflect individual strengths, limitations, and interests.  They may not reflect the, way that you want or are able to work.  Rather than spending a lot more money on tools, I suggest that you get busy building your model and buy additional tools as needed.

 

Roger

Roger, 

I suppose I could return the rotary tool for now and stick with some good old fashioned files...makes more sense anyhow. A couple responses above this one you'll see that I am making a decision to save money and not buy too many things. I'd be working on my model like you said, but it'll be here on the 12th or 13th, which is why I figured I'd get the basics before it arrived. 

Ask any of my friends and you'll quickly find out I'm pretty darn frugal. Getting fifty bucks back for a tool I nay not need and can put the money to use elsewhere sounds ok in my book. 

Thanks again for the wisdom, 

Chris